New Shrockets releases from Apogee

[bradycros]

Well since you asked ...

The ability to derive a scaling factor from photos is certainly a valuable skill to have and to pass along. Thank you. I would be very hesitant to use the technique to clone a current production kit. Feel like I was cheatin' somebody.

Just so you don't misunderstand, I wasn't asking. I made a statement.

The morality of cloning this kit is totally up to the individual who thinks the asking price is way over the top. They also over charge on shipping.

 

[samb]

If anyone is interested in this information, they should speak up. Otherwise I see no point in going any further with this demo.

Well since you asked ...

The ability to derive a scaling factor from photos is certainly a valuable skill to have and to pass along. Thank you. I would be very hesitant to use the technique to clone a current production kit. Feel like I was cheatin' somebody.

Just so you don't misunderstand, I wasn't asking. I made a statement.

The morality of cloning this kit is totally up to the individual who thinks the asking price is way over the top.

No misunderstanding, you're quite right. I went back and looked and there were no question marks in your post. I made a statement too. We're good, carry on.

 

[bradycros]

To reproduce the tail fin to the needed size, do the following: draw a box around the tail fin as shown in the sea sting print out. Measure the length and height. Then measure any contact points the fin makes within the box. In this case there are two contact points on the tip of the fin at the 6 & 7mm points. Also the two points of the root edge.




This photo can be enlarged by placing the curser on the photo and clicking the mouse a few times.

 

[AfterBurners]

To reproduce the tail fin to the needed size, do the following: draw a box around the tail fin as shown in the sea sting print out. Measure the length and height. Then measure any contact points the fin makes within the box. In this case there are two contact points on the tip of the fin at the 6 & 7mm points. Also the two points of the root edge.


View attachment 324628

This photo can be enlarged by placing the curser on the photo and clicking the mouse a few times.

If you have grid you can trace the design onto it.

 

[bradycros]

If you have grid you can trace the design onto it.

Do you mean grid paper?

 

[AfterBurners]

Do you mean grid paper?

If you need any help or have any questions in regards to construction of kits just let me know. I'll be happy to help you. I know getting the kit to look nice takes some work.

 

[bradycros]

If you need any help or have any questions in regards to construction of kits just let me know. I'll be happy to help you. I know getting the kit to look nice takes some work.

I am sure you could be helpful.

I have to wonder why you would think I need guidance on building rocket kits???

 

[neil_w]

This thread has gone in a very weird direction. Allow me to get back on topic, if there even is one anymore.

I think we can all agree (well, most; we can't *all* agree on anything) that these are very nicely produced kits, and that they quite expensive for their size. In looking at the product pages on the Apogee site, I can't help wondering if they've simply over-engineered these kits. You can see in the pictures that there are about a billion pre-cut slots in the body tubes, and then there's the printed vinyl decals, and their own custom molded nose cone. And Tim talks about in the description how easily they come together.

I had two thoughts while reading them (other than that, again, wow they've really put a lot of effort into these kits):
1) Why did they even bother to slot the tubes on such small LPR kits? And further, why did they cut slots for every single attached fin? Even in situations where I might TTW mount the largest fins, I certainly wouldn't bother for canards and other ornamental pieces.
2) Why is making them so easy to build a feature? There's a middle ground where you have nice laser-cut wood parts, but the rest you just, you know, "build".

As for vinyl vs. waterslide, I don't know the economics of producing the different varieties so I'll refrain from commenting there.

Anyway, I feel like they could have simplified these kits a little, targeted them a bit more for builders, and maybe brought down the price a bit. And then they would be much more appealing.

 

[AfterBurners]

This thread has gone in a very weird direction. Allow me to get back on topic, if there even is one anymore.

I think we can all agree (well, most; we can't *all* agree on anything) that these are very nicely produced kits, and that they quite expensive for their size. In looking at the product pages on the Apogee site, I can't help wondering if they've simply over-engineered these kits. You can see in the pictures that there are about a billion pre-cut slots in the body tubes, and then there's the printed vinyl decals, and their own custom molded nose cone. And Tim talks about in the description how easily they come together.

I had two thoughts while reading them (other than that, again, wow they've really put a lot of effort into these kits):
1) Why did they even bother to slot the tubes on such small LPR kits? And further, why did they cut slots for every single attached fin? Even in situations where I might TTW mount the largest fins, I certainly wouldn't bother for canards and other ornamental pieces.
2) Why is making them so easy to build a feature? There's a middle ground where you have nice laser-cut wood parts, but the rest you just, you know, "build".

As for vinyl vs. waterslide, I don't know the economics of producing the different varieties so I'll refrain from commenting there.

Anyway, I feel like they could have simplified these kits a little, targeted them a bit more for builders, and maybe brought down the price a bit. And then they would be much more appealing.

My thoughts exactly...If they were more in the $18-25 range I think that would be about right, if the tubes weren't slotted. I don't know why they used vinyl decals.

 

[AfterBurners]

Do you mean grid paper?

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant using the grid NOT grid paper, but the grid option in RS... also another thought is if one does have RS they can down load the file from Apogee and use the program to automatically upscale the kit and it would give them a very accurate upscale without any miscalculation caused by human error doing ridiculous calculations.

 

[bradycros]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant using the grid NOT grid paper, but the grid option in RS... also another thought is if one does have RS they can down load the file from Apogee and use the program to automatically upscale the kit and it would give them a very accurate upscale without any miscalculation caused by human error doing ridiculous calculations.

Division and multiplying hardly qualify as "ridiculous calculations". If you let computers do all your math for you, you'll be unable to do it yourself in time.

You will get more self satisfaction when you can produce your own plans for a project and bring it to completion.

 

[GlenP]

I think we can all agree (well, most; we can't *all* agree on anything) that these are very nicely produced kits, and that they quite expensive for their size. In looking at the product pages on the Apogee site, I can't help wondering if they've simply over-engineered these kits.... they could have simplified these kits a little, targeted them a bit more for builders, and maybe brought down the price a bit. And then they would be much more appealing.

I guess that's the challenge of kitting up a good design to make it appealing to as broad a consumer base and not let the kit-engineering get in the way of enjoyment of the rocket design itself. In contrast, consider Dr. Zooch kits, quite simple, lots of builder skills required, but affordable, fun and challenging to build 18mm ant-sport/fun-size historically themed designs (note how judicious in my word choice I did not say "scale") kits with cardstock and dowel magic, but maybe not everyone's cup of tea compared to an Estes type of kit with lots of detailed molded scale parts. Great to have such a variety and great alternatives on the market, each has their place. I like these new Shrockets, but probably would not collect the whole fleet of them due to the cost. (three 18mm rockets that sum up to more than a Saturn V? hmm, I know a real rocketeer would just get them ALL!) The boat tail on the Ibis is pretty sleek looking, that is my favorite.

P.S. - I have wondered how you might kit up your original designs... or if you licensed them to someone like eRockets or Apogee what their kits would be like.

 

[bradycros]

This thread has gone in a very weird direction. Allow me to get back on topic, if there even is one anymore.

I believe the topic was about the expense and size of the new shrox rocket kits. I was offering an alternative way to building the very same kits. I don't think that strayed from the topic.

All the people that give their thoughts on how they think these kits should be changed need to come to the realization that nothing is going to change about the way Apogee makes these kits, their cost or their shipping costs (which are also expensive).

 

[hcmbanjo]

As for vinyl vs. waterslide, I don't know the economics of producing the different varieties so I'll refrain from commenting there.

I'm building a Shrox Skonk Wulf right now for a client, it'll be on my build blog soon.
The "decals" aren't vinyl but more like (pressure sensitive) stickers, same style as in the Apogee Dynastar series.
Color print on clear.

 

[bradycros]

I did some more of those ridiculous calculations and came up with this template . One tail fin for a BT-70.

These photos can be enlarged by placing the curser on the photo and clicking the mouse a few times.

 

[bradycros]

The forward fins are the same size as the tail fin, which has already been reproduced.

 

[LW Bercini]

If you let computers do all your math for you, you'll be unable to do it yourself in time.

True!

 

[bradycros]

A box was drawn around the rear fin and measurements were taken.

The photo can be enlarged by placing the curser on the photo and clicking the mouse.

 

[cjp]

This thread has gone in a very weird direction. Allow me to get back on topic, if there even is one anymore.

I believe the topic was about the expense and size of the new shrox rocket kits. I was offering an alternative way to building the very same kits. I don't think that strayed from the topic.

All the people that give their thoughts on how they think these kits should be changed need to come to the realization that nothing is going to change about the way Apogee makes these kits, their cost or their shipping costs (which are also expensive).

Tim and his family came to NARAM when our club hosted it a few years ago.I helped him move his table and tent.Very nice family.Prices are a bit high but you see that everywhere these days.He does have very good service.

 

[bradycros]

A box was drawn around the rear fin and measurements were taken.

Next, the "box" needs to be drawn out using the scaling factor to enlarge it to the required upscale size.


(The photo can be enlarged by placing the curser on the photo and clicking the mouse.)

 

[neil_w]

FYI: Jeffyjeep is building the Sea Sting over on YORF.

 

[Rockyt]

OK, admittedly, I'm a quasi-noob, but I broke down and bought the Skunk Wolf on a whim (I was at Apogee buying some things for my son's science project, and couldn't resist). I'll try and post as I build it, but I am not as versed as most here. The two things that stuck out to my as initial reactions were:

laser cut fin holes in the body tube (evidenced by scorch marks near hole...seem to be superficial, tho)
Main Body tube is very thin compared to what I'm used to (no doubt, to be able to keep weight down)

clearly will be a departure from my (original scale) Estes skill 2 or 3 kits, and I am planning to do an 'eastern front' paint job, rather than the coyote tan/white/green of the original. That's just because I'm an 'anti-norm' type, tho. All in all, should be fun.

 

[neil_w]

OK, admittedly, I'm a quasi-noob, but I broke down and bought the Skunk Wolf on a whim (I was at Apogee buying some things for my son's science project, and couldn't resist). I'll try and post as I build it, but I am not as versed as most here.

Be sure to check out hcmbanjo's blog build of the Skonk Wulf: https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search/label/A Skonk Wulf

 

[Rockyt]

Awesome, thank you. I knew someone would be working with this bird. I've been eyeing it for sometime, but wasn't ready until now. Price point aside, I hope it gains more traction with the accessibility increase over searching for the parts. I think that was a reason it wasn't a staple before.

Now, once I build this, I can focus on a Snarky downsize. ��

 

[Nytrunner]

, and I am planning to do an 'eastern front' paint job, rather than the coyote tan/white/green of the original. That's just because I'm an 'anti-norm' type, tho. All in all, should be fun.

Do it.

Painting things like the face card is a sure sign of lacking imagination lol