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neil_w

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Apogee has released new kit versions of the Ibis, Johnny Star Commander, and Sea Sting. At least I think they are new. They look really nicely produced, lots of laser-cut everything. Also (not terribly surprisingly) on the expensive side for such small kits.

I'll probably get one or more of these at some point, once I've worked my way through some of the builds on my pile.

I wish Shrox was still cranking out designs.
 
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EXPjawa

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I think they recently licensed the designs. There was something about that published in their newsletter. I agree about the price, but Apogee is expensive generally speaking. I was hoping that they'd be a little bit bigger; maybe even 25% or so.
 

les

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Shrox initially sold these as kits, then only as plan packs, and then licensed the design to Apogee.

They did upgrade the decals to vinyl.
And I don't believe his kits had laser cut balsa like the Apogee kits
 

Woody's Workshop

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Shrox initially sold these as kits, then only as plan packs, and then licensed the design to Apogee.

They did upgrade the decals to vinyl.
And I don't believe his kits had laser cut balsa like the Apogee kits
You are correct.
Also, you are no long able to buy the plan packs directly from Shrox website.
That comes as a big disappointment for me. I would have preferred the $15 plan pack with instructions, patterns and decals.
But, not having funds when needed puts one at a disadvantage I guess.
 

Scott_650

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I bought a Skonk Wulf plan pack last year from the Shrox website - I see the Apogee kit for the Wulf is already sold out - great quality set of plans and a nice sheet of water slide decals (though I'm not going to use the NSSF marking - most likely use a West German flag instead ). All the parts are collected just haven't had the opportunity to get it built. The other three Shrox kits from Apogee look awfully tempting ...
 

AfterBurners

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I think $35-40 plus whatever he charges for shipping is ridiculous for these kits. Way over priced IMO. You're talking an 18mm really, but what you could do is get the rocksim file and do an upscale for about what it would cost to buy one of these kits. Just saying I wouldn't waste my money on one.
 

Bat-mite

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I think $35-40 plus whatever he charges for shipping is ridiculous for these kits. Way over priced IMO. You're talking an 18mm really, but what you could do is get the rocksim file and do an upscale for about what it would cost to buy one of these kits. Just saying I wouldn't waste my money on one.
Many feel that the Apogee newsletters, videos, expert shipping, great customer service, and overall support of the rocketry community make it worth the extra money. I don't generally buy from them, but I understand why others do.
 

AfterBurners

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Many feel that the Apogee newsletters, videos, expert shipping, great customer service, and overall support of the rocketry community make it worth the extra money. I don't generally buy from them, but I understand why others do.
I understand that as well. IDK they are a good company and offer a lot to the Rocketry community, but why does the consumer have to pay for that? why would I purchase an item that is marked above suggested retail price. As much as I try to make sense or reason to do so I just can't wrap my head around it. If a kit retails for $100 from the manufacturer why would I pay $109 for it?? Because there's videos or great customer service? Apogee is a good company and great website. If you feel obligated to pay extra because of this more power to you.
 

Woody's Workshop

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I think $35-40 plus whatever he charges for shipping is ridiculous for these kits. Way over priced IMO. You're talking an 18mm really, but what you could do is get the rocksim file and do an upscale for about what it would cost to buy one of these kits. Just saying I wouldn't waste my money on one.
That is why I wish the Plan Packs were still available.
At that price and size, you would think you'd get fiberglass BT's and Carbon Fiber fins...
The reason Shrox decided to do this must have been a good one...for him.
 

TangoJuliet

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Wow! That price point does seem a little steep. I would never spend what he's asking for any of those kits; 25% less maybe.

I've made purchases from Apogee, mainly for pieces/parts, though I have bought a couple NCR kits from him too, and I appreciate what he provides for the rocketry community as a whole. Especially to the younger/less experienced modelers. I think he realizes that he's a stepping stone toward a long-term love affair. As one becomes more involved, they become more aware of what else is available and from who. Then they start shopping around for the best value.
 

AfterBurners

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That is why I wish the Plan Packs were still available.
At that price and size, you would think you'd get fiberglass BT's and Carbon Fiber fins...
The reason Shrox decided to do this must have been a good one...for him.
So builders like most can pick and choose the materials they want and save money.
 

AfterBurners

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As I said these kits are pretty cool, but if they were more like the Lexxjet or Snarky or kits of that size I would considered buying one. In fact that would be a good size to upscale them too or maybe a 3" version would be awesome?
 

les

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Is that a typo in the Sea Sting price? $36.05.. seems weird for it to be just a nickel over $36..
I won't discuss the nickel, but

When Shrox sold this as a kit in 2013, it retailed for $27.00

Allowing 2%/year inflation for 4 years would make it $29.23

Meanwhile, Apogee has added laser cutting (both fins and tubes) and vinyl decals (instead of water slide type).
Kevlar cord vs rubber shock cord.
They also throw in a cardstock display stand

But $36.00 (sorry - $36.05) doesn't seem that bad for a comparison.

Just my :2: worth - YMMV
 

bradycros

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sea-sting.jpg
Ummm, I meant having Apogee sell kits and not selling the Plan Packs...Which I would rather do.
I have ton's of building supplies, which I probably wouldn't have to buy anything else.
This picture shows everything you need to do a upscale. I'm sure stickershock could reproduce the decals.

Go to the first post and click on the Sea-Sting. Scroll down to the paint scheme picture and save it to your computers pictures, then print it out to start taking measurements.

Go for it.
 

bradycros

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What size body tube would you upscale to? BT-60 or larger?
 

bradycros

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I think a BT-70 or 80 would look good.

OK, BT-70 sounds good.

The diameter of the printed out sea-sting is 11mm.
On the Apogee sales page for the sea-sting it is stated that the nose cone is a true three to one ogive.

11mm (diameter of the printed out sea-sting) X 3 = 33mm.

The entire length of the sea-sting (on the printed out sea-sting picture), plus the nose cone is 221mm.
Subtracting the length of the nose cone (33mm) = 188mm.

The desired BT is a BT-70. This tube has a outside diameter of 2.217 inch or 56.3118mm.
(2.217 inch. multiplied by 25.4mm (1 inch) = 56.3118mm).

Now the scaling factor can be determined by dividing the desired tube size (2.217 in) by the tube size of the sea-sting in the printed out picture, (11mm).
56.3118mm divided by 11mm = a scaling factor of 5.1192545
you can round that number up or down, or use as is.

With the scaling factor now know, take the length of the BT in the print out the sea-sting and multiply it by the scaling factor. 188mm X 5.1192545 = 962.419mm. Divide that number by 25.4mm (1 inch)and you get 37.890 inches. That's the length for the BT-70 upscale.

www.erocket.biz has a balsa 3:1 BT-70 nose cone available. I kinda like the 4:1 nose cone myself.
 

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bradycros

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The body tube that serves as a air scoop and a fin would also be a BT-70 (2.217 in). It's just split down the middle for the entire length of the tube.

In the print out this tube is 78mm in length.

78mm X the scaling factor (5.1192545) = 399.301851mm 399.301851mm divided by 25.4mm (1 inch) = 15.720 inches.
 

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AfterBurners

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The body tube that serves as a air scoop and a fin would also be a BT-70 (2.217 in). It's just split down the middle for the entire length of the tube.

In the print out this tube is 78mm in length.

78mm X the scaling factor (5.1192545) = 399.301851mm 399.301851mm divided by 25.4mm (1 inch) = 15.720 inches.
Very similar to the Snarky kit
 

bradycros

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Are you planning an upscale?
No, I am not.

Several people in this thread said they wanted to see a larger version of the sea-sting. I just thought I would pass along some info on how they could do it.
 

bradycros

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If anyone is interested in this information, they should speak up. Otherwise I see no point in going any further with this demo.
 

samb

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If anyone is interested in this information, they should speak up. Otherwise I see no point in going any further with this demo.
Well since you asked ...

The ability to derive a scaling factor from photos is certainly a valuable skill to have and to pass along. Thank you. I would be very hesitant to use the technique to clone a current production kit. Feel like I was cheatin' somebody.
 
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