New Motors Certified, Oct 16, 2021

[Alan Whitmore]

TMT has tested and certified three new Aerotech High Power motors. First is the 38mm DMS I40N-P, a Warp Nine endburner in the same mode as the G8 and H13: A start-up spike, and then a long sustain.
The second is the first Aerospike nozzle motor that we have tested. It is called the J615ST-20A, and is a reload kit made for the 54/852 hardware. The customer needs to be aware that the thin ring that constitutes the "nozzle" of this motor is narrow enough that the ignitor must be installed before the rear closure is screwed on. This must take place at a safe spot designated by the RSO.
The third new motor is a single-use 4" DMS motor called the N1975W-PS. Thrust curves are (I hope) attached below.

Alan Whitmore
Chair, Tripoli Motor Testing

 

[jimzcatz]

For those interested. I40, J615, and N1975. Please help me here regarding the Aerospike motors. Why? I don't get it.

 

[JackC]

TMT has tested and certified three new Aerotech High Power motors. First is the 38mm DMS I40N-P, a Warp Nine endburner in the same mode as the G8 and H13: A start-up spike, and then a long sustain.
The second is the first Aerospike nozzle motor that we have tested. It is called the J615ST-20A, and is a reload kit made for the 54/852 hardware. The customer needs to be aware that the thin ring that constitutes the "nozzle" of this motor is narrow enough that the ignitor must be installed before the rear closure is screwed on. This must take place at a safe spot designated by the RSO.
The third new motor is a single-use 4" DMS motor called the N1975W-PS. Thrust curves are (I hope) attached below.

Alan Whitmore
Chair, Tripoli Motor Testing

It's always nice to see new motors. What is the length of the N1975W? Thanks!

 

[AeroTech]

For those interested. I40, J615, and N1975. Please help me here regarding the Aerospike motors. Why? I don't get it.

Different. Cool. Interesting exhaust plume. First ever commercial, certified Aerospike nozzle motor.

 

[Alan Whitmore]

It's always nice to see new motors. What is the length of the N1975W? Thanks!

43.7" overall, with 2.75" sticking out the rear.

 

[Alan Whitmore]

TMT has tested and certified three new Aerotech High Power motors. First is the 38mm DMS I40N-P, a Warp Nine endburner in the same mode as the G8 and H13: A start-up spike, and then a long sustain.
The second is the first Aerospike nozzle motor that we have tested. It is called the J615ST-20A, and is a reload kit made for the 54/852 hardware. The customer needs to be aware that the thin ring that constitutes the "nozzle" of this motor is narrow enough that the ignitor must be installed before the rear closure is screwed on. This must take place at a safe spot designated by the RSO.
The third new motor is a single-use 4" DMS motor called the N1975W-PS. Thrust curves are (I hope) attached below.

Alan Whitmore
Chair, Tripoli Motor Testing

I forgot the most important acknowledgement! Brad Wilson has donated a 2-channel, hybrid capable wireless launch system to TMT. We have now used it on composite, b.p., and hybrid motor tests at distances up to 1000' and it works GREAT. It is an easy unit to use: small, very simple and intuitive instructions for use, and easy to set up. Thank You, Brad!

Alan

 

[Worsaer]

Here’s a photo of the J615 Aerospike nozzle. The center is not open - the nozzle is around the circumference at the base of the cone, where the initiator lead is in the photo.

 

[Kallahan11]

Any pricing on these?

 

[Banzai88]

Very cool!

 

[6inchmonster]

Different. Cool. Interesting exhaust plume. First ever commercial, certified Aerospike nozzle motor.

Sure, I like that. But why not prioritize making all those missing bread and butter reloads for your unloved cases before making the freaky weirdo one-off stuff?

 

[tsmith1315]

The most important question is- when will the freaky weirdo one-off be available?

 

[Banzai88]

TMT has tested and certified three new Aerotech High Power motors. ......
The second is the first Aerospike nozzle motor that we have tested. It is called the J615ST-20A, and is a reload kit made for the 54/852 hardware. The customer needs to be aware that the thin ring that constitutes the "nozzle" of this motor is narrow enough that the ignitor must be installed before the rear closure is screwed on. This must take place at a safe spot designated by the RSO........


Alan Whitmore
Chair, Tripoli Motor Testing

Here’s a photo of the J615 Aerospike nozzle. The center is not open - the nozzle is around the circumference at the base of the cone, where the initiator lead is in the photo.
View attachment 486379

So, traditionally the igniter gets spit out of the nozzle upon ignition, or at least gets pulled out upon launch. What happens here with the close tolerance fit of the aerospike nozzle? Do the wires go for a ride?

 

[AeroTech]

The most important question is- when will the freaky weirdo one-off be available?

These are planned for release next year.

 

[AeroTech]

So, traditionally the igniter gets spit out of the nozzle upon ignition, or at least gets pulled out upon launch. What happens here with the close tolerance fit of the aerospike nozzle? Do the wires go for a ride?

I haven’t seen one yet that didn’t eject the igniter leads.

 

[AeroTech]

Sure, I like that. But why not prioritize making all those missing bread and butter reloads for your unloved cases before making the freaky weirdo one-off stuff?

Such as? Some formulations are not practical or sufficiently reliable for particular hardware configurations. Also, we like developing stuff that is interesting to us, or has historical value, and not only products that will be big sellers.

 

[AeroTech]

Any pricing on these?

Not decided yet. We will announce pricing when we get closer to the actual release of the product.

 

[jimzcatz]

Ignitor wires were spit out.

 

[Banzai88]

I haven’t seen one yet that didn’t eject the igniter leads.

Ignitor wires were spit out.

Cool. I haven't handled one to see what the clearances are, and it's otherwise unclear from the photos.

 

[jimzcatz]

Plenty wire clearance. Head won't fit in the slots that why ignitor has to be built into the motor.

 

[6inchmonster]

Such as? Some formulations are not practical or sufficiently reliable for particular hardware configurations. Also, we like developing stuff that is interesting to us, or has historical value, and not only products that will be big sellers.

And that is part of what makes Aerotech great. But as one of the few ex-cesaroni guys out there, one cannot help but be a little jealous at the variety available in their extra-long cases. Typically for Aerotech your choices are fast white, slow white, and maybe sparky.

I do not mean to be a complainer, but if we are taking requests -
W9/white combo is AWESOME! Are 75 and 98 viable, in any length?
Only 1(!) metalstorm in 54? I have to imagine you could add some mag to the venerable J415 and K700
Still waiting on the "TBD" mid-length super thunder 75s
Short 75 blackjack, green, or sparky?
Will the K250 ever be updated to compete with the K300 and loki options that have so soundly defeated it for record-busting altitude?
I realize prop X is probably the #1 item you have in mind when talking about geometric limitations, but it is awesome, awesome stuff and I would buy any way you can get more of it out. Fewer, longer grains, different cores, whatever. I would also expect that new thunder could overcome some of the traditional blue thunder limitations.

 

[AeroTech]

And that is part of what makes Aerotech great. But as one of the few ex-cesaroni guys out there, one cannot help but be a little jealous at the variety available in their extra-long cases. Typically for Aerotech your choices are fast white, slow white, and maybe sparky.

I do not mean to be a complainer, but if we are taking requests -
W9/white combo is AWESOME! Are 75 and 98 viable, in any length?
Only 1(!) metalstorm in 54? I have to imagine you could add some mag to the venerable J415 and K700
Still waiting on the "TBD" mid-length super thunder 75s
Short 75 blackjack, green, or sparky?
Will the K250 ever be updated to compete with the K300 and loki options that have so soundly defeated it for record-busting altitude?
I realize prop X is probably the #1 item you have in mind when talking about geometric limitations, but it is awesome, awesome stuff and I would buy any way you can get more of it out. Fewer, longer grains, different cores, whatever. I would also expect that new thunder could overcome some of the traditional blue thunder limitations.

Some of those may eventually be produced.

Some may not because the potential market is extremely small or non-existent. 1-grain 75mm Black Jack reloads??

The K250W is already at the maximum propellant weight for shipping. Hard to update that.

Thanks for the wish list though. Unfortunately no matter what you develop, everyone wants something different.

Another problem is that the dealers are busting at the seams with inventory. They can't keep in stock what is already available. And their trailers are overloaded. We are considering dropping some of the slower selling products and perhaps only making them available once a year as seasonal items.

 

[Walter Longburn]

making them available once a year as seasonal items.

I'm fine with that as long as I can preorder them so that I can make sure I get them.

 

[6inchmonster]

Some may not because the potential market is extremely small or non-existent. 1-grain 75mm Black Jack reloads??

Sorry, "short 75s" is 2560 maybe 3840, not 1280. No one else even bothers with the 1280/1grain case. But it is not hard to look at what is available from loki and cesaroni and see that they make plenty of options in their 2 and 3 grain cases and wonder why aerotech has a measly 3 motors in 75/2560 (even if all three of them are great). Likewise it is real easy to look at that RMS reload matrix and pick out the holes. BTW the M2050 is amazing and I had been wanting that for years.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Sorry, "short 75s" is 2560 maybe 3840, not 1280. No one else even bothers with the 1280/1grain case. But it is not hard to look at what is available from loki and cesaroni and see that they make plenty of options in their 2 and 3 grain cases and wonder why aerotech has a measly 3 motors in 75/2560 (even if all three of them are great). Likewise it is real easy to look at that RMS reload matrix and pick out the holes. BTW the M2050 is amazing and I had been wanting that for years.

Thanks for listening.

I disagree and I know others who do as well. Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. I like the single grain 75 mm case and would fly it (and design rockets for it) much more frequently if there was a wider selection other than just the one load.

 

[6inchmonster]

I disagree and I know others who do as well. Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. I like the single grain 75 mm case and would fly it (and design rockets for it) much more frequently if there was a wider selection other than just the one load.

Sorry I meant the other manufacturers do not bother with it. Cesaroni starts at 2 grain in 75mm, and Loki starts at 75/3600 (tho there is shorter available for EX-only)

 

[Antares JS]

I am really happy to finally see a DMS N motor. Most people probably don't get to fly more than one or two N motors during their life and don't want to buy a case just to use it once or twice. Having an option that doesn't require buying a separate case will hopefully make N motors a little more accessible.

 

[AeroTech]

Sorry, "short 75s" is 2560 maybe 3840, not 1280. No one else even bothers with the 1280/1grain case. But it is not hard to look at what is available from loki and cesaroni and see that they make plenty of options in their 2 and 3 grain cases and wonder why aerotech has a measly 3 motors in 75/2560 (even if all three of them are great). Likewise it is real easy to look at that RMS reload matrix and pick out the holes. BTW the M2050 is amazing and I had been wanting that for years.

Thanks for listening.

Quite frankly I don’t recall anyone else asking for more 75/2560 loads, at least not recently.

Often we will develop and certify a motor because it serves a specific purpose or satisfies a particular demand.

International customers can use the M2050X for L3 certification because it can be sold without State Department licensing, as it uses no more than 5.0 lbs of propellant. Very high efficiency was required to achieve this. The M2050X has the highest delivered specific impulse of any high power motor. Higher than even the Space Shuttle SRBs (247 vs. 242 sec).

The L1940X for the 75/3840 case will be released soon and you should like that. Same Isp as the Shuttle boosters, and lots of weightlifting ability. That motor was requested to serve a specific market (college rocket teams).

 

[6inchmonster]

the L1940X for the 75/3840 case will be released soon and you should like that.

Oh I've tried to buy it several times some vendors put it on their web site but I guess "released soon" is why it is never in stock lol

 

[6inchmonster]

I am really happy to finally see a DMS N motor. Most people probably don't get to fly more than one or two N motors during their life and don't want to buy a case just to use it once or twice. Having an option that doesn't require buying a separate case will hopefully make N motors a little more accessible.

and i am happy to see more superwhite! even the F67 kicks ass.

 

[AeroTech]

Oh I've tried to buy it several times some vendors put it on their web site but I guess "released soon" is why it is never in stock lol

I think it should be available by Thanksgiving.