New MMT for Estes Phoenix

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

rocketgroupmike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
249
Reaction score
0
Hello all, I have a Phoenix and a foot or so of PML 29mm phenolic. The rocket is nice looking and used to fly great (not very high, but nice slow liftoff) on D12's, except that the small aft fins often broke off. Then I tried epoxy fillets. After adding much nose weight to compensate, it probably won't fly on Estes D's or E's anymore. Here's my options:

a. Try out 24mm RMS or SU motors other (higher power) than Estes. I'm thinking that the regular engine hook on the Phoenix will no longer be sufficient motor retention, how would I need to modify my aft end? (also, are these type motors regularly available? I've seen them out of stock at a couple of web sites)

b. Replace the guts with 29mm and a Slimline or similar retainer. This option comes with other benefits from my spare parts box... A Kevlar shock cord, nice parachute and nomex shield. I don't have the centering rings, though...

c. Leave the rocket on the shelf, it's not worth it.

What would you do?
 

eugenefl

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,375
Reaction score
10
I say "A". An E30, or F21 for that matter, will get your Phoenix moving again much higher than a "D" can.

B - Too much work unless you're looking to keep busy.

C? NEVER! Rocketeers never discard rockets!
 

firemanup

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Messages
1,387
Reaction score
175
Location
Central Iowa
If it will take an F21 try that, you'll get alot more altitude with it... and no work on re-doing anything..

If you try that and it's not enough then re-do the motor mount..
 

Rocketmaniac

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
4,066
Reaction score
2
Here's what I would do.... (I used to own a Estes Phoenix, until I crashed it after an upgrade to 29mm MMT and DIDN'T add any noseweight!!!! (It was my first rocket))

Go with option "A" Try an E30...... This motor should get off the ground just right...... I overbuild first one and the E30 was perfect..... My problem was I tried a D15 one day and it didn't get very high at all. It came down and stuck nose first in the ground, then the ejection charge went off and cleaned out the back end..... Ripped the MMT and centering rings right out..... So, I upgraded it to 29mm, but didn't add and nose weight. The next day I put a F50 in BAM!!!!!! That was the end of my rocket....... I did haven't finished building my second Phoenix........


If the E30 doesn't move the rocket the way you want, then try option "B"


DON'T DO OPTION "C"!!!!!! (or send me the rocket!!!!!) :D
 

rocketgroupmike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
249
Reaction score
0
Don't worry about option C! ;) It would sit on its shelf begging for more power, as it always has...

Since the rocket is already over a half pound, I guess I'll try option A, probably an E30 or F21 if I can get one, (if it doesn't fly well I can always do option B later) but will the regular Estes engine hook be OK for motor retention? Would any motor mount modification be recommended at all?

https://members.tripod.com/22viii_aos/index.htm

This url shows a picture of the Phoenix with my Estes Mercury Redstone and SR-71, and my almost-ready-to-paint Q-Modeling WAC Corporal. What a sweet kit that WACC is...

Ps. Scroll down below my Civil War game stuff...
 

NewEntity1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2003
Messages
273
Reaction score
0
The F21 is the same dimensions as an Estes E9. It packs more wholup than than E9, because APCP is a much more powerful fuel than black powder; the ejection charge isn't all that much stronger though, so the standard E-motor estes hook should work fine. If your phoenix has the hooks for D and smaller motors, hower, you'll need to remove it and replace it with an E hook.
 

DynaSoar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
3,022
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by rocketgroupmike
Hello all, I have a Phoenix and a foot or so of PML 29mm phenolic. The rocket is nice looking and used to fly great (not very high, but nice slow liftoff) on D12's, except that the small aft fins often broke off. Then I tried epoxy fillets. After adding much nose weight to compensate, it probably won't fly on Estes D's or E's anymore. ...
What would you do?
I'd take the weight out of the nose and test it to find out if it'd still fly on Ds and Es. I epoxied my Phoenix fins and it needed no nose weight. Do a spin test.

If it used to hold an E, that means you've got a 3.75" engine hook. Besides Estes Ds and Es, you can carry any Aerotech S/E E size, or with an 18mm adapter, an Aerotech D21. Forget the slow liftoff with a D21; it blows off the pad.

If you want to do something useful with some 29mm phenolic, think about something better than a Phoenix.
 

loopy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
4,586
Reaction score
2
I agree. Build it for 24mm AP loads. I did mine with basswood fins, E length hook, and 24mm Loc motor tube and changed the recovery system with kevlar and a nylon chute. Hasn't flown yet, but I just got a pack of E-18 reloads, and I'm hoping to get my hands on a pack of F21's fairly soon!

Loopy
 

airwolfe1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
107
Reaction score
0
Better yet, Keep flying it with the 24mm motor and go to https://www.scalekits.com/ and get the Pheonix. It is much more rugged, uses plywood fins and comes with a 29mm motor mount.
 

stevecarr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Messages
203
Reaction score
0
Did you check out the cluster configuration in sport rocketry?
Looks like another option to me.:D
 

NewEntity1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2003
Messages
273
Reaction score
0
That Scale-Kits version of the Phoenix looks interesting! Plus, its quite affordable. :) I don't much care for the 2.3" body tube though...its non-standard and makes kit-bashing virtually impossible. IMO they should have 'scaled up the kit' some, in order to use standard 2.6" diameter tubes, while maintaining accurate proportions...
 

rocketgroupmike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
249
Reaction score
0
Hmmm, that Phoenix is smaller than mine... I'll pass. On mine, I've left the 24mm MMT, but I'm replacing the recovery system. The original shock cord was so crispy, I'm sure it was about to fail. So I've tacked one end of the skinny flat Kevlar from Magnum into the MMT tube, ready to cover with epoxy. Then I'll add a 9x9" Nomex square and a TopFlite chute.
 
Top