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Kelley

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Hi all. I am a born again (3rd or 4th reincarnation ) rocketeer. Built (or tried to) rockets since the days of Century. I am currently living in Germany, and the planets are in alignment to start building and flying rockets again. It is not now the US where you can just go out in a random field and fly them, and I am on a German forum and will try to work my way though the red tape. Lots of new things since I last built a rocket (one of the last rockets I built was a Camrock, don't think I got to fly it) . I will be asking a lot of newbie questions, some I knew the answers to years ago (but forgot) . I will dig around on the forum before I ask the obvious ones.
Kelley
 

lcorinth

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Willkommen!

My fiancee is from Germany (Chemnitz). I envy you being able to try those Klima rocket motors. Look forward to hearing from you on the forum!
 

Kelley

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Thanks. I was at a hobby show last year and talked to the Klima guys. I was pretty excited as the Germans had restrictions on the amount of propellant (by weight) you could buy and use, before you needed special license. EU rules kind of loosened up some of the restrictions in Germany, and the Klima engines have lighter propellant, so you could have more power with less weight. Also, I believe clusters and multi staging is now possible. The only restrictions with the lighter higher powered rockets are the altitudes allowed to fly, among the other bits of red tape. I will meet up in Feb with a group and try to get more info and find a place they fly. I figured between the two forums I can get the ball rolling. I have a Klima rocket from then that I have not started yet, and I just ordered a V-2 from Noris.
 

Kelley

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Willkommen!

My fiancee is from Germany (Chemnitz). I envy you being able to try those Klima rocket motors. Look forward to hearing from you on the forum!
German ladies are great. I just can't seem to stop marrying them.
 

Kelley

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I don't know the science. I just know I am allowed to put bigger engines in my rockets now and not get arrested on charges of unlawful use of explosives. But I will let you guys duel it out with slide rules. I can't shoot anything with over 20 grams of propellant, without a license. I do know I can now fly D engines at 17.2 grams of propellant in an 18 mm casing, that I was not allowed to do several years ago. And this was how it was explained to me by the Klima dude, so I dunno.
 

FredA

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German ladies are great. I just can't seem to stop marrying them.

Sounds expensive. ;-)
 

Kelley

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and a welcome here as well.
Danke Leo. Are you on the German Forum? I will try and go to SOFEX in
Göttingen . I live out in the middle of nowhere between Frizlar and Kassel.
 

Nytrunner

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But I will let you guys duel it out with slide rules.
This is a fantastic representation of the forum on a regular basis. :grin:

Just add in one more popping in to say "My old wooden ruler has worked just as well for 20 years!"

I can't shoot anything with over 20 grams of propellant, without a license. I do know I can now fly D engines at 17.2 grams of propellant in an 18 mm casing, that I was not allowed to do several years ago. And this was how it was explained to me by the Klima dude, so I dunno.
Thanks. I was at a hobby show last year and talked to the Klima guys. I was pretty excited as the Germans had restrictions on the amount of propellant (by weight) you could buy and use, before you needed special license. EU rules kind of loosened up some of the restrictions in Germany, and the Klima engines have lighter propellant, so you could have more power with less weight. Also, I believe clusters and multi staging is now possible. The only restrictions with the lighter higher powered rockets are the altitudes allowed to fly, among the other bits of red tape. I will meet up in Feb with a group and try to get more info and find a place they fly. I figured between the two forums I can get the ball rolling. I have a Klima rocket from then that I have not started yet, and I just ordered a V-2 from Noris.

I for one am really interested in the regulations outside of the US.
What are the rules in Europe as far as model or high power rocketry?
 

Kelley

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I will let the Germans answer that one. I am still learning the answers. I just know almost anything is possible in Germany, if you have the time and patience and money and the right stamp from the right official. I seen in one of the requirements something about having to be native born, but if I ask too many dumb questions I get too many dumb answers . Oh! I was looking for a slide rule online and found a really cool German round whiz wheel kind, very Dr Strangelove like. made in 62. I will see if it is still for sale and snag it up.
 

Kelley

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I came to Germany in 1981 with the Army. Was sent to Hanau. Then kept extending and reenlisting and was sent to KirchGoens and then Giessen. Wall came down and drawdown so I got out and stayed in the Reserves in Germany while working for Delta Airlines and later Frankfurt Airport. Did that until my back was pretty much broke. Still stayed in the Reserves and was called up on several deployments. Milked that cow until it went dry and now I am a househusband with 2 giant rabbits and the wife is a teacher. In between I am in the local volunteer fire department and the shooting club. My kids from first German Frau are grown, but trying to talk the boy into shooting rockets with the old man. As far as rockets go I got some stored away, dont even know what I have. Camrock and then an Estes model with those satellites with streamers, a wrecked Hawk, and some other bits and pieces as well as the un built Klima and the V2 that is on the way. I want to build some of the rockets I always wanted, or actually had as a kid. I want Der Red Max, was thinking I could build one double in size from Klima parts, and was surprised that there is one that size in a kit already. I want a Mercury Red Stone, and was thinking about getting the skin kits to make it closer to scale. And if I can, I want to step up to midpower, and the only way is to be in a club and get my license.
 

Nytrunner

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When you find out the rules and license/certification steps, let us know!
 

Kelley

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Might be like everything else that is kind of shady and the Germans authorities are not happy when you do it. . Just go next door to the Netherlands ;)
 

The_Lone_Beagle

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Klima engines have lighter propellant

Really? Something with higher energy density than APCP?
What's the magic?

Looking at a chart I found, it looks like it is significantly LESS Ns/gram.
APCP is ballpark 2Ns/g where the Klima stuff pencils out to be 1.25Ns/g. based on a quick look at the data.

See the chart here: https://www.neu.raketenmodellbau-klima.de/Download_Dateien/Motorflyer_DINA4.pdf
I didn't read it that way, I read it as the Klima engines (which I believe use composites) are lighter than a comparable black powder motor.
 

Leo

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Danke Leo. Are you on the German Forum? I will try and go to SOFEX in
Göttingen . I live out in the middle of nowhere between Frizlar and Kassel.
That is him :)

I'm near Nuremburg.
 

K'Tesh

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Ni Hao!

Greetings from an American in China. I'm surprised you haven't been told this yet... So, I guess it falls to me.

We LOVE pictures. Post lots of pics.

Again Welcome!
 

FredA

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I didn't read it that way, I read it as the Klima engines (which I believe use composites) are lighter than a comparable black powder motor.

Maybe....was looking at APCP compared to Klima
 

Kelley

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Ni Hao and Happy New Year. I will try and post pictures.
 

Kelley

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OH!!! I found my old range box in the basement. Full of C 6 3 engines I bought years ago at the PX. Not a clue if they are any good anymore. Also found another launcher and my home cooked 6 volt ignition system. Old block battery was with it and I hooked everything up and the light came on. I will move up to a motorcycle battery so I can recharge it . Just need to find a place I can fly them. Have to have a field with the owners permission.
 

Woody's Workshop

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Finding those things from your youth brings back great memories I bet.
I've flown engines that were almost 20 years old that were stored in a shed where cold/heat cycles of Michigan got to them.
They all worked. If the nozzle isn't cracked, I'd fly them.
 

Kelley

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"Youth" Ha! I guess it was my youth. Around 95 or so when I got the engines. I seen here most of the CATOs involving old engines are they dont light, or the ejection charges doesn't go off. I have a flying saucer rocket so I guess it would be good to try out. Back about 20 years ago I had gotten some German made motors, and talk about CATO, they ALL blew up. Every rocket. Like BAM, blew the engine mounts out and all the guts on top though the nose cone, and actually dented the blast deflector. We shall see what happens, The ones in my hoard are all Estes engines the PX had them cheap as dirt back then, then AAFES decides they need to jack the price on them 10 times the price because of Hazmat shipping. I did not feel bad about the engines but recovery wadding went from being 2 dollars a package to 12 dollars (these are 1995 ish prices!) To add insult the stuff was already over here, and they went around and jacked up the price overnight. Between the PX skinning me and the German engines blowing up all my rockets, that was when I stopped messing with them over here.
 
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