CoachSteve
Well-Known Member
I was able to place my order today with Estes - This will be a fantastic addition to my fleet
I was able to place my order today with Estes - This will be a fantastic addition to my fleet
The only one review of the Der Big Red Max on Estes site so far, mentions something about each fin being 3 separate pieces. Any idea what that is all about?
Don’t know. Looks more like the fins are made of sections of 1/8” balsa, instead of actual layers. The 3 fins are single 1/8” thickness using sections.From Estes fan FB group member Paul Wolaver’s unboxing pictures you can see that the fins are apparently made up of three layers of balsa wood. Not sure what the “reviewer” on the Estes website expected - Estes has used layered construction for fins before for bigger rockets: the Mega Mosquito, the 4” PSII MDRM, PSII Super Big Bertha all had layered fins and there may have others as well. I’d see this as, if you’ll pardon the cliche, more of a feature than a bug - if we can’t have actual plywood this at least let’s us make our own View attachment 447846
Yup - lost my mind just for a minute - must be time for lunch, my brain is a bit fuzzy!Don’t know. Looks more like the fins are made of sections of 1/8” balsa, instead of actual layers. The 3 fins are single 1/8” thickness using sections.
looks like a good candidate for skinning with 1/64" plywood.Don’t know. Looks more like the fins are made of sections of 1/8” balsa, instead of actual layers. The 3 fins are single 1/8” thickness using sections.
I had the same reaction to that review....but with this picture, the story is quite different.******CORRECTION******
Too close to lunch - definitely had a real brain cramp - clearly three piece fins, not layered fins!!
From Estes fan FB group member Paul Wolaver’s unboxing pictures you can see that the fins are apparently made up of three layers of balsa wood. Not sure what the “reviewer” on the Estes website expected - Estes has used layered construction for fins before for bigger rockets: the Mega Mosquito, the 4” PSII MDRM, PSII Super Big Bertha all had layered fins and there may have others as well. I’d see this as, if you’ll pardon the cliche, more of a feature than a bug - if we can’t have actual plywood this at least let’s us make our ownView attachment 447846
I have not priced it lately, but years ago bought a half sheet (4'×4') so I might still have enough to do one set of 3" DBRM fins.I had the same reaction to that review....but with this picture, the story is quite different.
This goes into the "what were they thinking?" bucket. For one thing, a 3 inch DRM would be close to a 2x upscale and so the fins would need to be ~1/4 inch thick, which would lend itself perfectly to the Mega Mosquito/Super Big Bertha approach. If these are the whole fins then I'm wondering, more than a little, how they will hold up on a 14+ ounce model. And they'll look too thin. All of this gives me pause, even if none of the other things folks have been complaining about in this thread bother me at all. The idea of setting the model up to take bigger/stronger motors than the 29mm Estes BP motors (no motor block, so relying on a masking tape thrust ring on the Estes motors, like SBB and Star Orbiter) and having single layer 1/8 inch thick fins seems to be a conflict, to say the least.
That said, I keep hearing balsa is really hard to get right now and I imagine doing the 1/8 inch core with 1/16 inch skins thing I'd more expect (again, see Mega Mozzie or Super Big Bertha) would have made it hard to get this one to market.
And I can see the need for sections if wide balsa stock is hard to come by. With the segments, the pieces fit on 3 or 4 inch wide sheets.
Rich, have you priced 1/64th ply lately?
I’m not sure the component choices were strictly a balance sheet decision - balsa prices have really gone up and availability has gone down so using the size sheet for the fins they did could have been their only choice, there have been several builders of the past 4” MDRM who related they’d rather have a self-stick decal instead of a water slide for the big skull and bones wrap - but as for the chute, yeah, it really should’ve been printed nylon, not plastic. As for the card stock centering rings that’s in line with the last two bigger diameter PSII kits so I’m sure that’s their current design philosophy and they’re sticking with it.I’ve got mine (arrived on time even with the best efforts of the USPS) in the build pile, dropped a note to Stickershock23 for better decals. Waiting to see what goodies VanderBurn comes up with but I’ve got 1/4 Basswood and balsa sitting in the garage. Looking to replace the plastic parachute as well... For all the hype over this release it seems Estes went with bottom dollar components.
Honestly the best improvements I’ve seen to the Estes lineup are the clones from Toby @ VanderBurn Rockets. If I was Estes I’d bring him on to make a new Pro Series - PSIII or something. I have his 4” MDRM in my build pile as well. If you haven’t checked his work out it’s...I’m not sure the component choices were strictly a balance sheet decision - balsa prices have really gone up and availability has gone down so using the size sheet for the fins they did could have been their only choice, there have been several builders of the past 4” MDRM who related they’d rather have a self-stick decal instead of a water slide for the big skull and bones wrap - but as for the chute, yeah, it really should’ve been printed nylon, not plastic. As for the card stock centering rings that’s in line with the last two bigger diameter PSII kits so I’m sure that’s their current design philosophy and they’re sticking with it.
For me I’d rather have the 3” Max as it is than no Max at all but I wonder if the leadership at Estes ever considered releasing their own premium option? Would that even be a possible choice for them to have an options package of say layered construction fins, a nylon chute and water slide decals labeled “For Advanced Builders”?
Estes is making their kits to fly with Estes motors, Vander-Burn upgrades would make the kit difficult if not impossible to fly on Estes BP motors. Toby offers a great product to a select crowd.Honestly the best improvements I’ve seen to the Estes lineup are the clones from Toby @ VanderBurn Rockets. If I was Estes I’d bring him on to make a new Pro Series - PSIII or something. I have his 4” MDRM in my build pile as well. If you haven’t checked his work out it’s...
https://www.vander-burn.com/
Honestly the best improvements I’ve seen to the Estes lineup are the clones from Toby @ VanderBurn Rockets. If I was Estes I’d bring him on to make a new Pro Series - PSIII or something. I have his 4” MDRM in my build pile as well. If you haven’t checked his work out it’s...
https://www.vander-burn.com/
Toby’s clones and upgrades look like quality stuff - I’ve been eyeing that big Cherokee now for a while, it looks really good. But, and I know I’ve said this before in various conversations, as of today, if a bigger rocket can’t fly safely per Estes requirements on one of the 29mm BP motors they won’t be releasing it.This kit may represent some new realities for material availability and cost. Interesting times. I was never interested in any Red Max but I almost want to get this one, build it stock, and see how it holds up.
Just for grins I whipped up a quick unboxing video featuring the new Der Big Red Max kit. Check it out here:
Just for grins I whipped up a quick unboxing video featuring the new Der Big Red Max kit. Check it out here:
James
Mine is due tomorrowMine arrived today, direct from Estes, shipped fast (about 4 days), arrived in perfect condition. Can't wait to start this build.
I’ve got mine (arrived on time even with the best efforts of the USPS) in the build pile, dropped a note to Stickershock23 for better decals. Waiting to see what goodies VanderBurn comes up with but I’ve got 1/4 Basswood and balsa sitting in the garage. Looking to replace the plastic parachute as well... For all the hype over this release it seems Estes went with bottom dollar components.
I had to have this model when it came out in 1968! Was fun to build and oozed the COOL factor!
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