New dishwasher performance

[Donnager]

They don’t care if they are trying to violate the rules of physics.

Or hygiene.

 

[OverTheTop]

after watching the video we are going to start using the prewash detergent feature.

+1

 

[OverTheTop]

I used to know a guy whose job it was to go around and fix domestic applicances for a major manufacturer. He commented that the biggest problem with dishwashers was that people would connect them only to the hot water. The hot water would bake on some foods and they would not be removed in later washing. He commented that best results were with a cold rinse and warm/hot wash.

Keep in mind this was 15-20 years back before the detergent pods came about, so there would have been both prewash and wash detergent in the dispensers. I am going to be switching away from pods. They mostly work but I think I will get better results with the regular detergent in both parts of the cycle.

 

[tim cubbedge]

The reason I ask current dishwashers are regulated by a DOE rule limiting water consumption to 5gal per wash. Some are tying this regulation to why some dishwasher performance is not as good or driving costs up to get good performance.

DOE proposed new regulations that limit water consumption to 3.5g/cycle. Should I buy a dishwasher now before good dishwashers are regulated out of affordability?

Any dishwasher that has an energy star rating is already required to use 4 gallons or less and there’s a lot out there now that use less than 2 gallons.

 

[SwingWing]

Get a Bosch. So quite you only know it's running by the LED that shines on the floor. Cleans well.
Iy has a Looong cycle time compared to the older dishwashers. 2:25 for ours

 

[ghostfather]

Miele, there is no better. At least that's their slogan here in the Netherlands.
We've had different Bosch machines over the years, they are good quality German machines. Miele is just better.
The standard cycle runs 3 hours, 22 minutes, the ECO almost 4 hours. Also very quiet.

Anymore, I look for a dishwasher that allows "hot fill", or connecting it to the hot water line instead of cold water. That means it uses less electricity to heat the water. We have block heating, which is much more energy efficient than heating using electricity. Anyone using a heat pump assisted water heater would also be better off, energy-wise.

Miele makes almost indestructible washing machines as well. We had our previous front-loader for more than 25 years before it developed electrical problems with the front panel. The motor and pumps were good.

 

[FredA]

I'll second the vote for Miele.

EPA rules deleted the drying element which really impacts the end results at least here in the humid PNW.

Our Miele pops the door open at the end of the cycle and runs a fan to circulate air to dry things better.

 

[prfesser]

The reason I ask current dishwashers are regulated by a DOE rule limiting water consumption to 5gal per wash. Some are tying this regulation to why some dishwasher performance is not as good or driving costs up to get good performance.

DOE proposed new regulations that limit water consumption to 3.5g/cycle. Should I buy a dishwasher now before good dishwashers are regulated out of affordability?

Wild guess: if it's passed, manufacturers will find a way to get around such regulation. For example, the machine could have a new cycle arrangement wherein you select "Primary Wash" that uses, say, 3 gallons to wash and rinses with a half-gallon. That would be followed by a "Secondary Wash" that uses half a gallon to wash and 3 gallons of rinse. Two separate cycles so it's legal---within the letter of the law.

Surely there would be other workarounds. And like so many such regulations, the workaround would probably end up actually increasing rather than decreasing the amount of water used.

 

[Jim Hinton]

I'll second the vote for Miele.

EPA rules deleted the drying element which really impacts the end results at least here in the humid PNW.

Our Miele pops the door open at the end of the cycle and runs a fan to circulate air to dry things better.

I didn't know Miele made a dishwasher. They have made an excellent vacuum cleaner as well.

Jim

 

[jadebox]

Our Miele pops the door open at the end of the cycle and runs a fan to circulate air to dry things better.

Our Samsung does that and it actually works well. It also avoids melting plastic things even on the bottom rack. It does, however, scare the hell out of you when you are getting a glass of water from the kitchen in the middle of the night and the door pops open making a loud grunting sound and expelling steam like a dragon!

 

[prfesser]

Anymore, I look for a dishwasher that allows "hot fill", or connecting it to the hot water line instead of cold water. That means it uses less electricity to heat the water. We have block heating, which is much more energy efficient than heating using electricity. Anyone using a heat pump assisted water heater would also be better off, energy-wise.

Hmmm...every dishwasher I've installed or considered buying was to be connected directly to the hot water line. Most have a supplemental heating element to bring up the wash temperature. The house water heater is set to a lower temperature, say 120F, to save energy (don't really need scalding-hot water for showers and hand-washing) and the dishwasher's heating element brings the water it uses up to 140-160F.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Our Miele pops the door open at the end of the cycle and runs a fan to circulate air to dry things better.

I've never heard of that feature.

 

[Banzai88]

I've never heard of that feature.

Has become more popular in recent decades to meet government mandated power efficiency standards because popping the door, or a drying flap, and running a fan or simple convection current is more energy efficient than running a heating element.

 

[jderimig]

Has become more popular in recent decades to meet government mandated power efficiency standards because popping the door, or a drying flap, and running a fan or simple convection current is more energy efficient than running a heating element.

The new rule requires even less energy consumption.

DOE expects the new rule to save consumers nearly $3 billion in utility bill savings over the ensuing 30 years of shipments.

$3 billion — that’s a lot of money! Actually, not. It’s $3 billion over 30 years, or $100 million per year. There are 123 million households in the U.S., so this is well less than one dollar per year per household.

 

[Banzai88]

The new rule requires even less energy consumption.

DOE expects the new rule to save consumers nearly $3 billion in utility bill savings over the ensuing 30 years of shipments.

$3 billion — that’s a lot of money! Actually, not. It’s $3 billion over 30 years, or $100 million per year. There are 123 million households in the U.S., so this is well less than one dollar per year per household.

A cynical man would say it's intentionally scoped to destroy the performance to the point that there is no longer a convience vs. the price of the appliance, and thus "All animals are equal....except pigs".

Never thought in my 50s that I would have more expensive and lower performing appliances than I had in my 20s.

 

[jderimig]

A cynical man would say it's intentionally scoped to destroy the performance to the point that there is no longer a convience vs. the price of the appliance, and thus "All animals are equal....except pigs".

Never thought in my 50s that I would have more expensive and lower performing appliances than I had in my 20s.

Have you seen the movie Brazil? There will guys like Harry Tuttle to "fix" things for us.

 

[ghostfather]

Hmmm...every dishwasher I've installed or considered buying was to be connected directly to the hot water line. Most have a supplemental heating element to bring up the wash temperature. The house water heater is set to a lower temperature, say 120F, to save energy (don't really need scalding-hot water for showers and hand-washing) and the dishwasher's heating element brings the water it uses up to 140-160F.

In the Netherlands it's most usually installed with the cold water line. Connections provided in kitchens are almost always cold, but luckily hot water is almost always close.
Not all dish washers are certified for hot fill. Something to do with the seals. Most of the better (not cheapest models) have no problem.

 

[rharshberger]

We almost bought a higher end Samsung dishwasher a few months ago when we replaced our old dishwasher, then I noticed that the Midea branded machine was identical to the point of every single removable part in the interior was swappable with the Samsung. The Samsung unit was $200 more than the Midea for the the exact same unit with the exact same specs. (except price of course). The Midea does an excellent job and though we have a water softener, most dishwashers still struggle with the water quality in this area.

 

[Hobie1dog]

$3 billion — that’s a lot of money! Actually, not. It’s $3 billion over 30 years, or $100 million per year. There are 123 million households in the U.S., so this is well less than one dollar per year per household.

Math- the great equalizer