New 3X Mars Lander Kit Released

[Ben Awes]

3X Mars Lander by Colossus Rockets

Hello everyone, My name is Ben Awes. I am an architect, married, 2 kids and 4 tortoises and I live in St. Paul, MN. I am thrilled to announce the release of a new (I think first ever) 3X Mars Lander Rocket Kit that I have been working on for many years.

My story is not unique. I discovered Estes rockets in the mid 70's and after building many of their rockets I bought an Estes Mars Lander in 1976. It was my favorite rocket I ever built. About 8 year ago or so I discovered high power rocketry. I designed and built a few of my own rockets and then went on the hunt for an upscale version of the Mars Lander - I wanted to build it again. Nothing out there that I could find matched what I wanted to do and so commited to do it myself. Pretty quickly i realized that if I was going to make a kit for myself, i ought to go the extra step and offer it to others. For the past 5 years I have been designing a new 3X upscale Mars Lander Kit.

Just this fall I have finished the kit and today I am releasing the kit for the first time. I know what kits this scale cost and what you typically get for your money. My intention is to offer the worlds first 3X upscale Mars Lander rocket kit. Nearly an exact replica of the original Estes 1969 Model Rocket - with some required structural modifications. Simply the best, most complete, and most beautiful High Power Mars Lander Kit available, at a fair price. Built around a 75mm motor platform, but set up to allow for a switch to 54mm.

I have just opened an Etsy shop and I have a Facebook page as well - those links are below. On those pages are complete written and photographic description of the kit.

I would welcome your visit to my sites and your feedback and questions -
and for you to pass the word!

https://www.etsy.com/shop/3XMARSLANDER

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/3X-Mars-Lander-Model-Rocket/122541217843090?sk=info

Thank-you, and blessings,

Ben

 

[bradycros]

How much?

 

[H_Rocket]

Looks like $495 + $30 US Shipping.

 

[bradycros]

Looks like $495 + $30 US Shipping.

For real?

 

[Ben Awes]

Yes, the rocket is $495 plus $30 for shipping - does seem like a lot or?

I've been doing high power for a while and it seems to me this is a pretty good price for what you get. Most high power kits you get a tube, motor mount, nosecone, a couple rings, & three or four fins - often no photos, no decals, no drawings, and they can cost hundreds. I certainly want to sell rockets and don't want to be priced too high, but it does cost a lot to make the parts, and they are not massed produced.

Would love more feedback, and thanks,

Ben
Colossus Rockets

 

[H_Rocket]

Given what you list, I don't think it's a bad price. Not my cup of tea as I'm a 3FNC sort of guy, however some will probably get into it. I think getting it made out of fiberglass with machined metal legs would be kinda cool....

Got a picture of the prototype? I'm curious as to how you handled the electronics.

 

[Ben Awes]

Thank Al,

Yeah, fiberglass and metal legs would be way cool and would push the cost over $1,000 I imagine! What does 3FNC mean?

There is no prototype yet - all simulated through RockSim. Regarding electronics - there is room, but not a lot. The main parachute tube is a 5.5" diameter with about 14" of length on the inside. This is part of the challenge of upscalling the Mars Lander - but I am sure you guys can figure it out!

Ben
Colossus Rockets

 

[H_Rocket]

3 Fins and a Nose Cone.

Four fins are OK as well

From a craftsmanship point of view, a nasty challenge to locate the electronics is always fun. Given my recollection of the Mars Lander I'd go with what Gary T did on the Gizmo XL or possibly a hatch on the inside.

One thing, If you've not built one from the parts yet, I would - even if interested, wait until I'd seen someone else do it before I sent in $500.

 

[burkefj]

I think the idea sounds great, but before I plunked down that kind of $$, I'd want to see completed photos and a launch video....

Frank

 

[Ben Awes]

I get it Frank and I imagine you are not alone in that sentiment. But, someone has to be the first and I believe that the price, while a lot of $$, is still pretty well below what some others are getting for kits with this level of detail and fabrication. But the market will tell the truth about that, it won't sell just because I want it too! I know that people want proof, and I will have it, but I need to get the kits out there so that others can help prove it with me.

Thanks for the comment, I need the feedback and it is helpful,

Ben Awes
Colossus Rockets

 

[dave carver]

You can send me one...I'll build it with photos and everything...free for nothing...nevermind...

 

[troj]

There is no prototype yet - all simulated through RockSim. Regarding electronics - there is room, but not a lot. The main parachute tube is a 5.5" diameter with about 14" of length on the inside. This is part of the challenge of upscalling the Mars Lander - but I am sure you guys can figure it out!

To give you a basis of comparison, the 1.6X and 2X Mars Landers I have both cost me under $200. Granted, that was several years ago, however it's still a valid basis of comparison.

In addition, it sounds like you're offering it for sale, yet haven't built one yet yourself.

I'd suggest pulling down the price and offering to show it, until you've built and successfully flown a prototype a few times.

I suspect you're going to go through some iterations on how to make it all stable.

-Kevin

 

[bjphoenix]

This sounds like a pretty exciting kit.

I got interested in the ML years ago, there was something about it that was captivating. I bought one of the TangoPapa kits over 10 years ago but did not build it at the time. I have started working on it more recently although I'm just barely started. There is a lot to this kit even, a lot of parts and instructions that are detailed with a lot of steps, but not a lot of illustrations. It is hard to get a feel for the full relationship of the parts just from reading the instructions, so I measured all of the parts and created a full autocad drawing of it. I sent copies of the drawing to Tom and maybe he provides them with his kits now. For my own satisfaction I am going to expand on my drawings in the process of building my 1.6x kit, as well as document with photographs.

This kit provides a lot of parts, big parts, and some of these parts cannot be cheap. If a person was going to build one of these completely from scratch it would be a ton of work to make all of the parts. To me this is a lot more interesting rocket than something like a big Phoenix.

I will echo what others have said- how many buyers will there be before you have built and successfully tested a prototype? TangoPapa built them, tested them, and provided instructions on how much weight was required for stability, how to pack the parachutes so they would deploy successfully, and what motors it would work with. It's a complicated kit and while your CAD drawings will help to make sure everything fits, there might still be some things to work out during the build and after you have launched one a few times. Ben didn't say if he was L2 or not, if not then possibly he could find a person that was L2 and offer him a kit at a discount to help build and test it, with documentation of the build and testing.

 

[Ben Awes]

Hi Kevin,

I appreciate the email. I am aware of the two rockets you referenced. These are great rockets - and I know what you get for that money. I own one myself. Those rockets, however, require you to do almost all the fabrication yourself - you know what I mean if you own one - which is why they cost what they do.

All my parts are laser cut, even the shrouds, and the shroud overlay panels, and the shrouds are laser etched for panel overlay, all ribs laser cut, all 12 centering rings laser cut with notches, all holes for screws, bolts, launch lug laser cut and numbered, all landing pad parts laser cut, all leg parts laser cut and with grooves routed into the edge, with a precision turned 5.5" solid hardwood nosecone (took me a year to find a supplier that could do the quality work for a price that did not totally blow the budget). I know $495 is a lot to ask for not having launched it, but there is a reason we use RockSim. The decals are flawless, and I include a full scale labeled poster section CAD drawing and a 5' tall pull apart poster axonometric drawing. These things might not matter to the rocket enthusiast that would prefer to fab all their own parts with minimal pre-fab'd components - which is awesome. I get that and respect it, but I wanted to offer a different experience, a more full service kit. I will also be providing the RockSim file.

We all build rockets based on modeling simulations with pretty high confidence that they will fly. The Mars Lander is a proven flyer with 40 years of history - this one should fly as well if the RockSim profiles are solid. That being said, If you need to wait and see it fly first, I get it, and respect it, and I will continue to gather the feedback.

Thanks and please stay in touch (and I would love to see photos of your Mars Landers, are they on this site somewhere?)

Ben Awes
Colossus Rockets

 

[Ben Awes]

bjphoenix,

Thanks for the note, and yes, this has taken hundreds and hundreds of hours. It has been a labor of love because I too find the ML captivating in an almost unexplainable way. This business is not about profit - I want to cover my costs, which are significant for each kit, plus a percentage (some of which would go to covering corrections, etc.). I am interested in contributing to the Model Rocket community in a way that meets my passion - the Mars Lander.

Yes, I have thought of offering a discounted kit to someone willing to build and test. I need that even if I do it myself as well. The outside opinion is more objective. Of course this will take time to build and so on my end, I would also need assurance that they would do it, and in a timely manner, with good documentation and they would need to have a resume that shows they can do it, and have done it. But I would consider it.

Best,
Ben
Colossus Rockets

 

[JPVegh]

I looked at the pics on the facebook page. Wow that is quite a kit! I can see you have quite a bit of money in providing top notch components. Still, this kit is waaaay beyond my budget constraints. Good luck to you Sir! I hope you sell a thousand of them.

Seriously though you need to build and test the kit before selling them. You will probably make more sales by showing up at launches with a flying model then you ever will by posting on this forum.

 

[mikec]

I looked at the Facebook photos and it's obvious you have done a huge amount of work on this kit; the parts look beautiful (what I could see of them through your photo watermarks, not sure what's up with that.)

However, I think most people will be unwilling to spend that much money on an untested kit. Note that the Tango Papa 2X Mars Lander is only $105 without chutes and that is probably satisfying most ML fans.

[Sorry this message is pretty redundant with those posted while I was composing.]

 

[Ben Awes]

Mike and Jeff,

I like all the comments! First off, I'm not sure what's up with the watermarks either, maybe I'll get rid of them.

Maybe you are right that I won't sell any until I build and fly one, but that will happen and so why not put it out there now, why wait? the kit is ready and someone might want a winter project - I know I do. If Tango Papa is satifying most flyers - great, more power to him. I am gambling that there is demand out there for something else - a 3X full service kit. I know that with most kits where a lot of fabrication is required, we spend a lot of money on tools, parts, messing around doing what I have already done. So while some kits start out less, in the end they cost much more.

Part of it is also that you guys don't know me, I am unproven and I get that. Nothing I can do about that except not sell it until its flown, but I know what I have done, and the quality of this kit. Things will be learned in flight and for those who want that run through first - no problem, but maybe someone will want to give it a go.

Maybe I am not supposed to commenting on all the posts? Maybe you don't want my thoughts and I should just stay out of it for a while? I don't really know the protocol.

Best,
Ben
Colossus Rockets

 

[bjphoenix]

Maybe you are right that I won't sell any until I build and fly one, but that will happen and so why not put it out there now, why wait?

Part of it is also that you guys don't know me, I am unproven and I get that. Nothing I can do about that except not sell it until its flown, but I know what I have done, and the quality of this kit. Things will be learned in flight and for those who want that run through first - no problem, but maybe someone will want to give it a go.

Maybe I am not supposed to commenting on all the posts? Maybe you don't want my thoughts and I should just stay out of it for a while? I don't really know the protocol.

I think there are people that would buy the kit and take it from there. People can and do build and fly all sorts of things, including the big tiki hut flown at LDRS! Someone willing to fly a tiki hut would take your kit and build it just to be the first to build one. I think a lot of people want to see the finished product and know that when they build one it will work first time. I don't know how many potential buyers fall into the first catagory vs. the second category. That is more your business than mine.

You have posted good photos of your kit and drawings so that proves that you are pretty much legitimate. There have been instances of people advertising expensive kits and not being able to deliver them, so there might be some people skeptical of your business and reliability, but the kit itself seems to be good.

Feel free to post all that you want. I see that you have posted in several sub-forums, I would recommend that you post in one and not duplicate posts. As long as you are answering questions, providing additional information, and not becoming adversarial then I'm sure your posts are welcome. I think people would be interested in more photos too. You could post photos here, or set up a photobucket account and provide links to it.

 

[Shade]

I think for that price buyers will want to see a flown kit. If you show up to
the larger HPR launches and show how well your bird flies you will start
to get orders. BTW, it is very cool. I loved my ML as a kid and rebuilt a
Semroc version recently.

Good luck with your endevours

 

[burkefj]

Ben, even though you have run Sims I would not personally sell something till it is flown and the design and cg range is confirmed. I post a lot of rc rocket glider plans for free and don't post them till I have flown them. But that's my personal philosophy.

I really like the look of the parts you have shown though.

Frank

=Ben Awes;255076]Mike and Jeff,

I like all the comments! First off, I'm not sure what's up with the watermarks either, maybe I'll get rid of them.

Maybe you are right that I won't sell any until I build and fly one, but that will happen and so why not put it out there now, why wait? the kit is ready and someone might want a winter project - I know I do. If Tango Papa is satifying most flyers - great, more power to him. I am gambling that there is demand out there for something else - a 3X full service kit. I know that with most kits where a lot of fabrication is required, we spend a lot of money on tools, parts, messing around doing what I have already done. So while some kits start out less, in the end they cost much more.

Part of it is also that you guys don't know me, I am unproven and I get that. Nothing I can do about that except not sell it until its flown, but I know what I have done, and the quality of this kit. Things will be learned in flight and for those who want that run through first - no problem, but maybe someone will want to give it a go.

Maybe I am not supposed to commenting on all the posts? Maybe you don't want my thoughts and I should just stay out of it for a while? I don't really know the protocol.

Best,
Ben
Colossus Rockets[/QUOTE]

 

[Ben Awes]

Thank Guys, you could all be right and it won't sell till its been flown, time will tell. And that fine if it does not. Please understand that over 6 years I have thought about this. I realize that having a proven flight will - be proof, but its not like I am not going to build and fly one. There is just no real good reason to wait. Having even one other who is building and testing as well will only help the cause. So until I finish mine, its for sale - with no harm done to anyone.

Maybe I will offer a couple Beta kits at a discount as has been suggested?

Also realize, I am an architect by trade and my natural course of action is to build on paper only. I do not test build a house before I build it just to make sure it works and I do have to rely on calculations, in fact I stake my license on them. I sell designs on paper every day. I actually took this a step further by providing all the parts! For houses I don't supply the 2x4's and sheetrock. I think I'm making some real progress here! My point it I have a natural bias.

Thanks for all the feedback, I do take it to heart.

Ben
Colossus Rockets

 

[JoeG]

Ben,

My 3X Mars Lander was fun to build. It can be found here. (Hope the link works)

https://s148.photobucket.com/albums...rs%20Lander/?action=view&current=100_0846.jpg

You have done a lot of great work on this project. The only problem i see is transferring from the design model to the real world. I think what everyone else is saying is that there is a period or R and D from the design stage to the practical stage

Upscaling the tubing hinges, for instance, didn't work for me. Just like upscaling Estes rockets to High Power Rockets takes changes in materials, adhesives, and techniques so will your model.

In my case the mass of the larger lander is much greater and the tubing hinges proved to be inadequate. I then opted for largest R/C hinges that were available and these too failed to hold the weight of the larger lander. My final hinges ended up being aluminum tubing on the end of large dowels paired up with shock absorber ends from a 1/10 R/C car. These seem to be holding up fine. I went through all of these hinge changes before ever flying the model. (Still haven't flown it but will in the next month).

Also the rubber band method of shock absorbers was inadequate for my needs so I went to an internal bungee cord system after trying several different sizes of springs. I am still working on a better way to keep the legs from sagging after a landing.

I wish you luck on your project and success in marketing your model. I will be one of those actually waiting to see a prototype fly before letting go of my hobby dollars though.

Best Wishes,

 

[Ben Awes]

Hi Joe, and thanks for the comment, and great photos, really good to see - and nice project! Regarding all the internal mechanics - I've based the construction of this mars lander on what has been done in the past on upsale mars landers and on the original. Clearly one this size needs signficant structural improvements, but the hinge system of the original design can be upscaled and still works. Providing easy access to the leg assembly allows for fine tunning. Bungee cords are basically rubber bands, but with rubber bands you have a lot more flexibility.

I have used RC hinges before as well, but with this one I really wanted to stick with the original design as best as possible.

Stay in touch,

Ben
Colossus Rockets

 

[bill2654]

Ben I think like most others here that you need to build one, flight test it, work the bugs out (if any) and THEN sell them. I look forward to seeing flight pictures and maybe a video next spring!