Neil_W's half-baked design thread

[neil_w]

Lately I've become enamored with the Starblazer X-20, so I made a detailed (and frankly pretty darned awesome) OR model of it:





Pondering whether I want to build a faithful upscale or perhaps use this as a starting point for something new and different.

Yeah, this is not exactly a half-baked design, but I couldn't think of anywhere else to put this and I wanted to show it off.

This is a fantastic design with an especially fantastic decal scheme. Would love to know who designed it. The Orion Starfighter (no pics because I haven't found a good one) is a very close cousin, also very nice, although I like the decor on the Starblazer better.

Since I haven't mentioned it recently: the Estes catalogs from the early 80's are an absolute treasure trove of great sci-fi designs.

 

[jqavins]

It might not take a lot of modification to make a two stager out of it. I'm not sure what to do about making a third sustainer fin coexist with the cockpit, but I'm sure you can work something out. Maybe flip the two that are there up and place the third one on the ventral side. Or something.

 

[Bill S]

Neil, that is an awesome paintjob, though I wouldn't want to be the one to do all that masking, etc. Whew.

I really like that X-20.

 

[neil_w]

Neil, that is an awesome paintjob, though I wouldn't want to be the one to do all that masking, etc. Whew.

I really like that X-20.

All the hard stuff is decals. The only paint is yellow nose, white just behind that (although that could be done with a wrap), and everything else blue.

Recreating it all in the OR model, though... a lot of work.

 

[Bluegrass Rocket]

Check out the Centuri Python Fighter. I think I now know where they got their inspiration.

 

[BABAR]

It might not take a lot of modification to make a two stager out of it. I'm not sure what to do about making a third sustainer fin coexist with the cockpit, but I'm sure you can work something out. Maybe flip the two that are there up and place the third one on the ventral side. Or something.
View attachment 585325

You may have a problem if booster is stable after staging. May need to change name to “Core Sampler.”

 

[BABAR]

Lately I've become enamored with the Starblazer X-20, so I made a detailed (and frankly pretty darned awesome) OR model of it:

View attachment 585289

View attachment 585287View attachment 585290

Pondering whether I want to build a faithful upscale or perhaps use this as a starting point for something new and different.

Yeah, this is not exactly a half-baked design, but I couldn't think of anywhere else to put this and I wanted to show it off.

This is a fantastic design with an especially fantastic decal scheme. Would love to know who designed it. The Orion Starfighter (no pics because I haven't found a good one) is a very close cousin, also very nice, although I like the decor on the Starblazer better.

Since I haven't mentioned it recently: the Estes catalogs from the early 80's are an absolute treasure trove of great sci-fi designs.

Something you could try is the modification used in the Apogee SloMo. Angle the forward ends of the outboard rear fins INWARD, and maybe add an intentional slight (2-4 degree) off axis angle (all clockwise or counter clockwise) on one of the many fin sets to get a bit of axial rotation. Intent is to get a slow majestic lift off.

 

[neil_w]

Check out the Centuri Python Fighter. I think I now know where they got their inspiration.

Lol, those fin tips look mighty familiar… what year’s catalog was that? Starblazer came out in 1980 I believe.

 

[Bluegrass Rocket]

Centuri’s last catalog,1983.

 

[neil_w]

Centuri’s last catalog,1983.

Yeah there might have been a wee bit of inspiration taken there.

 

[jqavins]

You may have a problem if booster is stable after staging. May need to change name to “Core Sampler.”

Always something to keep in mind, yes. My mind sim ays it's too short with those size fins and the spend motor weight in the back to be a problem.Of course, a better sim than the one in my head would be called for.

EDIT: On another look, the fns will be more effective than I thought. But then,the little fins near the top f the section I'm proposing to be a booster would be canards after separation and reduce the stability of the booster coming down.

 

[neil_w]

Yeah there might have been a wee bit of inspiration taken there.

The Centuri Spacemaster also has a familiar ring to it, you might say...


However, since Damon owned both Estes and Centuri for several years by the time these rockets came out, it's not too surprising that there was cross-pollination of the designs.

 

[BABAR]

. But then,the little fins near the top f the section I'm proposing to be a booster would be canards after separation and reduce the stability of the booster coming down.

deleted

 

[neil_w]

Biohazard redux, with the transparent tube hack applied:

 

[neil_w]

Blackfish redux, with the transparent tube hack applied. God I love this stuff.

 

[kjhambrick]

Neil !

You're an artist !

One thing Rikki Rocket asked to do years ago with Program PROFILER ( an old command-line + config-file based rocket drawing app ) and Program OVERT ( a bashed-up version of RASP that does off-vertical sims ) was to sim the flight and then make a movie of the flight using a picture of the rocket in flight over some well-known launch site.

My rockets were nothing more than simple line drawings in a gnuplot graph and I am not much of an artist and there was always something else for me to work on.

The graphics capabilities of OR and your beautiful Rockets make this idea seem within the realm of existing capabilities now.

I know there are PlugIns out there.

Has anyone done such a thing ?

Another thing floating around in the back of my head is to import flight computer data into OR where Sim and Live Data could be overlaid ...

Is there a PlugIn for that ?

Thanks and thanks for the Beautiful Rockets !

-- kjh

p.s. I didn't mean to exclude anyone ... I've seen an occasional beauty authored by numerous people here.

 

[neil_w]

Starship Avalon redux, with transparent tube hack applied. Oh, how I have wanted to be able to do this one. This makes me so happy.



That's the last one of these for now.

 

[neil_w]

One thing Rikki Rocket asked to do years ago with Program PROFILER ( an old command-line + config-file based rocket drawing app ) and Program OVERT ( a bashed-up version of RASP that does off-vertical sims ) was to sim the flight and then make a movie of the flight using a picture of the rocket in flight over some well-known launch site.

Rocksim has something like this. The quality of the visuals is not up to the level that I would want.

This is something that is technically possible in OR, but it's such a low-priority feature that I doubt it will ever get implemented.

Is it possible as a plug-in? I dunno, maybe? Seems like it would be difficult.

Another thing floating around in the back of my head is to import flight computer data into OR where Sim and Live Data could be overlaid ...

Is there a PlugIn for that ?

There's a discussion about doing something like this in a fairly current thread somewhere on this forum.... but I can't seem to find it. In any case, you can certainly export the data from OR and then compare with flight computer data. Not so elegant but definitely functional.

 

[lakeroadster]

Starship Avalon redux, with transparent tube hack applied. Oh, how I have wanted to be able to do this one. This makes me so happy.

View attachment 589345

That's the last one of these for now.

You gotta build this one Neil.

Frankie Tested... Annette Approved

 

[jqavins]

He has build it. And it's as beautiful in person as it is on the screen.

 

[neil_w]

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/starship-avalon-build-thread.136389/
Interestingly, that design hasn’t aged as well as some others in my mind. It was a hell of an adventure of a build.

 

[neil_w]

One more note on Avalon before moving on… when I posted finished build pics on YORF (back when I was doing that), John Boren complimented the design. That was pretty cool.

 

[Raythain]

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/starship-avalon-build-thread.136389/
Interestingly, that design hasn’t aged as well as some others in my mind. It was a hell of an adventure of a build.

16 pages?! There goes my free time for the next few days. That’s a real purdy lookin rocket.

 

[Sandy H.]

@neil_w : You make some of the coolest designs I've ever seen. I know, I sound like a broken record, but it is true. I wish darn near everything you've done was available as a kit. I hope some day something happens where these all become easily available in the wild!

Great work, dude!

 

[neil_w]

I wish darn near everything you've done was available as a kit.

Yeah, would be nice.

Well, for some of them anyway… some are really not kittable for one reason or another, but some would be.

I hope some day something happens where these all become easily available in the wild!!

Plans and my assistance are all readily available now… but it’s still basically a scratchbuild and far more folks want kits, so.

 

[jqavins]

Have you considered shopping out designs to small kit makers? I feel the same way that Sandy H. does about many of them, and I'm sure plenty of other people do as well. If you get a modest payment or a small cut of sales, that's better than the nothing you're getting now. Even something like Avalon might be kitable if those helical bits are 3D printed (though even printing them might be easier said than done).

 

[neil_w]

Have you considered shopping out designs to small kit makers?

I have done that, and it has gone exactly nowhere. Prevailing feeling among kit makers seems to be that creating/having good designs is the easy and fun part; bringing kits to production (especially creating instructions) is the hard part. And therefore the value of a bunch of fancy third-party designs is very low. I did come sort of close to a deal once, but it fell through.

I've thought about plan-packs but it's not clear to me how much demand there is for them and whether it is worth the effort, since you can't charge too much for them.

I did the Biohazard design for Apogee POF and, well, that was not a fulfilling experience for me, so I won't be going that route again. Maybe a handful got built.

It looks like the only way such a thing is going to happen is if I get my hands dirty and do it myself, or at least be directly involved in some fashion. An effort along these lines also got started but then fell through. Producing kits is a lot of work and requires commitment that I just couldn't give.

I continue to be open to the idea of making something happen (I have made no bones about the fact that I would *love* to have a design kitted by someone, anyone) but don't see any obvious path right now. So I'll just continue posting designs and builds here and be thankful that anyone at all cares.

 

[Bill S]

I have done that, and it has gone exactly nowhere. Prevailing feeling among kit makers seems to be that creating/having good designs is the easy and fun part; bringing kits to production (especially creating instructions) is the hard part. And therefore the value of a bunch of fancy third-party designs is very low. I did come sort of close to a deal once, but it fell through.

I've thought about plan-packs but it's not clear to me how much demand there is for them and whether it is worth the effort, since you can't charge too much for them.

I did the Biohazard design for Apogee POF and, well, that was not a fulfilling experience for me, so I won't be going that route again. Maybe a handful got built.

It looks like the only way such a thing is going to happen is if I get my hands dirty and do it myself, or at least be directly involved in some fashion. An effort along these lines also got started but then fell through. Producing kits is a lot of work and requires commitment that I just couldn't give.

I continue to be open to the idea of making something happen (I have made no bones about the fact that I would *love* to have a design kitted by someone, anyone) but don't see any obvious path right now. So I'll just continue posting designs and builds here and be thankful that anyone at all cares.

Have you considered working with BigMacDaddy? He sells small numbers of 3d printed kits; possibly some of your designs could benefit from 3d printing?

To be sure, it is hard to come up with good directions, as I found when I built his Tau Zero kit - the provided directions were lacking, hence why I put up my build thread.

 

[neil_w]

Have you considered working with BigMacDaddy? He sells small numbers of 3d printed kits; possibly some of your designs could benefit from 3d printing?

I’ve contacted pretty much anyone you can think of.

 

[jqavins]

Gee, I was also thinking of @BigMacDaddy, since you two actually live reasonably close to one another and could collaborate in person. But, alas... I assume that "pretty much anyone" includes @Cape Byron, even though the in person part would be just a wee bit harder.

OK, I'll stop harping on it. Suffice it to say that, no matter how realistic, practical, and reasonable the reasons are, it's a darn shame kits of your designs don't get made.