Neil_W's half-baked design thread

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Your designs are great, but you're going to have to accept that not every rocket can be a Mona-Lisa. For example, I have written comedy. And comedy is the toughest form of writing. You have to write 1000 jokes to get 100 funny ones. It's easier to make an audience cry that it is to make an audience laugh. Not every joke is going to be "Who's on First?" and I have to accept that as a writer.

And the funny part of this entire diatribe is that the only writing I get to do "professionally" is documentation, because I work in I.T. Now, if you can make documentation funny, then you're really hitting it out of the park.

But I see you're trying to think outside the box. So stop working with just a body tube and a nose-cone and start thinking about what you can do to change that dynamic. Enigma is a step in the right direction because it looks like the entire rocket is a cone. But what if your rocket was a deep space design that looks like a ladder-frame with stuff bolted on?
 
Your designs are great, but you're going to have to accept that not every rocket can be a Mona-Lisa. For example, I have written comedy. And comedy is the toughest form of writing. You have to write 1000 jokes to get 100 funny ones. It's easier to make an audience cry that it is to make an audience laugh. Not every joke is going to be "Who's on First?" and I have to accept that as a writer.
I build few rockets and try to make each one a Mona Lisa. That's the fun of it for me. I don't always succeed but I accept that. I have no doubt that if I were able to build more rockets I would be less particular about each one.
But what if your rocket was a deep space design that looks like a ladder-frame with stuff bolted on?
I love seeing that stuff in sci-fi movies but I have very little (read: zero) intuition for those sorts of designs. Also I try to work within what I can reasonably do within OpenRocket, because I am utterly dependent on visualization. Ultimately, my rockets (at least, the ones I end up actually *building*) are really not far outside the box, most of the time. Occasionally they wander out a bit (e.g. Shear Insanity, I suppose) but for the most part they're conventional designs with some unusual elements. I confess as time goes on I'm having more and more trouble coming up with new ideas, so at some point I might need to shake things up a bit.
 
Last edited:
What about Frankensteining together the ideas you have above?

1718293786192.png

(Forgive the semi-adequate cut and paste) I might make the body tube aft of the nose smaller to make that scoop more dramatic, and maybe reduce the length of the body tube between the nose and transition. And maybe the area aft of the scoop doesn't have 3 outboard tubes. Or maybe that's good. I'm not sure.

Too Abby Normal?
 
But what if your rocket was a deep space design that looks like a ladder-frame with stuff bolted on?
Why then he'd have to build it! Design, cut and assemble the parts, paint it. Three giant pains ITA rolled into one.

Sounds like fun. (Don't ask if that's sarcastic; I don't really know.)
 
@jqavins can't measure one right now but the few Estes ones I have seem to nest into the bt's used.

@neil_w I like the split fin ring design but to me it screams have several rings, stacked.
 
@jqavins can't measure one right now but the few Estes ones I have seem to nest into the bt's used.

@neil_w I like the split fin ring design but to me it screams have several rings, stacked.
You mean like this?
1718374533546.png
I like it.

Also, at @Bruiser 's suggestion I did a hack mockup with one of the Estes sci-fi nose cones.
1718374574930.png
 
Technical OR question: are you modeling the ring fins as short sections of body tubes? If so, do they contribute to stability?
 
Technical OR question: are you modeling the ring fins as short sections of body tubes? If so, do they contribute to stability?
Lack of native support for tail rings is an ongoing irritation in OR. Generally I use internal tubes, which don't contribute to stability but are easy and don't generate warnings. I have to account for their aerodynamics in other ways (usually with a set of invisible fins whose parameters I have calculated with a cockamamie algorithm I derived intuitively that may or may not be particularly well-connected with reality). I know this: tail ring rockets tend to fly really well. I'm usually not too worried about their stability.
 
Actually I meant same diameter forward and aft, but that looks really good too. The new nc is good too.
Hmm, can't quite visualize how that would fit there. If you want to try hacking it up yourself....
I don't have the right software at work to attempt to sketch it, but picture this: the aft fins remain as is. The forward fins remain as is, but are shifted forward. One or two straight rectangular fins are space out between them, supporting one or two additional rings. I don't know if I'd like it, but I can see it.

I can also see it with each set of fins having a smaller span than the one behind it, and rings varying in diameter accordingly.

Also, at @Bruiser 's suggestion I did a hack mockup with one of the Estes sci-fi nose cones.
View attachment 650519
How about a long, shallow-sloped transition, stretching from about half way along the body to about 80 or 90 percent of the way up, then just a little tube and a nose cone. Keep it as a nose cone with a cockpit or some other interesting feature(s).
 
At some point I'm going to build a rocket with a ring being held captive by split fins. Need to experiment more with the concept; I think it could be pretty cool if done right.
View attachment 650252
View attachment 650253

A year or two ago - memory fades - I build this fin can with captive ring for the purposes of reinforcing large 0.020" PETG fins from hard HSR landings. I've never launched it and I can't explain why. Will endeavor to fix that this season!

DSC00956.jpg
 
my rocsim skills are old and rusty, and I still haven't really learned 10, but this is what I was going for conceptually
1718470916119.png

1718470969507.png

it gets a little dark arts with a fwd ring too

1718471074451.png
 
3 little light weight BT-60 rings... sounds like a challenge. Nah, don't do that. ;)
Are those ring fins or centering rings up there? Looks like CP didn’t move when you added them in OR, so I still call shenanigans.

Back to constructive design commentary. What about stacked rings like @mjennings showed, but each ring only gets two struts. The struts are offset on the different rings. For two rings the struts would be at 0 and 180 on the forward ring and 90 and 270 on the aft one.
 
They are Body Tubes​
To extend that answer, they have to be body tubes, because OR doesn't support ring fins. Which means they don't contribute to the CP, which is why it didn't move. Shenanigans indeed, because that's the only way to make it look right. On the other hand, the rings in back are also body tubes on the OR versions, so it'd probably be OK.
 
To extend that answer, they have to be body tubes, because OR doesn't support ring fins. Which means they don't contribute to the CP, which is why it didn't move. Shenanigans indeed, because that's the only way to make it look right. On the other hand, the rings in back are also body tubes on the OR versions, so it'd probably be OK.
Inner tubes, not body tubes. Body tubes would generate a bunch of warnings.

A single tube fin could be interesting. Dunno how accurate it would be. I’ll experiment a bit.
 
Starting points?:
on left: Hollow cylinder, motor up front, flare in the back? Fiction scale? The scale motor position on this one would probably require oodles of nose weight.
on right: f you could actually do thrust vectoring, something like a General Products hull.
il_fullxfull.4000393309_e6m7.jpg



This one might inspire something interesting. Someone's idea of a Kzinti ship:
Screen_Shot_2018-01-11_at_7.15.44_PM_grande.png

found on this site: https://littlemetalspaceships.com/b...f-inquiry-from-larry-nivens-ring-world-series

Earth-Moon shuttle from 2001:
E_1DrKBUUAMlUHS

Bich-26 fighter proposal, make it look peaceful:

BiCZ-26_001.jpg


Orion III space plane from 2001:
PoQhAnuA8mNvXM95dUBU4M-1200-80.jpg
 
Back
Top