Neil_W's half-baked design thread

[kuririn]

Hey, I just had an idea. What about multi colored clear plastic for the "shards". Looks like colored glass.

 

[neil_w]

This is not the mythical #3. Instead, a simple two-stager that has been in the back of my brain for a while.

XO


This image shows the stage split:

 

[neil_w]

Hey, I just had an idea. What about multi colored clear plastic for the "shards". Looks like colored glass.

Absolutely, if at all possible. Regrettably I could not show it like that in OR.

 

[neil_w]

Here's the "real #3". Doesn't have a proper name yet. Fin can looks sort of guitar-ish, maybe.


Yes, I seem to have rings on the brain at the moment.

Here's an angular version:

 

[jqavins]

Yes, I seem to have rings on the brain at the moment.

Is that meant to imply that at other moments you do not?

 

[neil_w]

Is that meant to imply that at other moments you do not?

I have the occasional brief respite. [emoji6]

 

[kuririn]

The good thing about incorporating rings is that it allows you to go sub minimal on the fin sizes and shapes.

 

[Nytrunner]

Hey, I just had an idea. What about multi colored clear plastic for the "shards". Looks like colored glass.

I will agree with the Hawaii delegation

 

[jqavins]

In the world of Pern, "Shards!" is a curse word. For what it's worth.

 

[neil_w]

In the world of Pern, "Shards!" is a curse word. For what it's worth.

Ha, I had completely forgotten about that series. Was super popular back in the day.

In any case, it does not seem to conflict with that rocket.

 

[mbeels]

XO

I see where the name came from!

 

[BABAR]

This is not the mythical #3. Instead, a simple two-stager that has been in the back of my brain for a while.

XO
View attachment 391685

This image shows the stage split:
View attachment 391686

I\

I like this one. Looks like it would work perfect with a Pringles can to make the rings from. Length is just right for taped (non-gap) staging, and ring fins have less tendency to weathercock, which is an added plus for two stage rockets.

 

[neil_w]

I like this one. Looks like it would work perfect with a Pringles can to make the rings from. Length is just right for taped (non-gap) staging

I did set it up for taped staging.

and ring fins have less tendency to weathercock, which is an added plus for two stage rockets.

I don't think I was aware of that. Do you know why?

 

[BABAR]

I don't think I was aware of that. Do you know why?

I think ring fins present less surface area to cross winds, while presenting the same fin area to forward airstream. Also perhaps a cylinder presents less drag to cross wind than flat fins.

 

[neil_w]

Interesting. So that means my obsession with rings all this time has just been in the interest of reducing weathercocking. Yeah, that's the ticket!

 

[jqavins]

I think ring fins present less surface area to cross winds, while presenting the same fin area to forward airstream. Also perhaps a cylinder presents less drag to cross wind than flat fins.

The same logic would apply to tube fins, and I don't see you using many of those, Neil. Possibly a new direction for you?

 

[neil_w]

The same logic would apply to tube fins, and I don't see you using many of those, Neil. Possibly a new direction for you?

Meh.

Tube fins are generally not interesting to me as a focal point because they all kinda look the same (and as far as I understand, for effectiveness the aspect ratio needs to fall within a certain range). The obvious notable exception is the Kraken, but I can't visualize creative tube cuts like that in OR. So for me, tube fins are an accessory rather than a focal point (e.g.: pods on Biohazard).

Notable exceptions:
1) Pemberton The Kraken: unfortunately I can't visualize creative tube cuts like that in OR. That's maybe my biggest problem: non-square cuts can be the biggest tool in making tube fins interesting, and I can't (and won't ever be able to) do it in OR. There are games that can be played with using decals to show where the cuts would be, but it's a pain and not totally effective.
2) Squirrel Works Tuber is a nice variation. Might be fun to play with a variation where the booster is tubes and the sustainer is fins.
3) Estes Super Neon. Addition of some small fins gives a basic tube fin rocket some distinction.

Anyone know of any other really interesting tube-fin designs?

Having thought this through, maybe there are a few things I can think of to play around with for a bit.

 

[mbeels]

A bit of a stretch from a basic tube fin, but I find some of the induction and ram jet stabilized rocket ideas interesting. nytrunner had an induction rocket that looked intriguing. I'm not finding nytrunner's thread currently, but it is on here somewhere...

 

[neil_w]

A bit of a stretch from a basic tube fin, but I find some of the induction and ram jet stabilized rocket ideas interesting. nytrunner had an induction rocket that looked intriguing. I'm not finding nytrunner's thread currently, but it is on here somewhere...

Technically *extremely* interesting, but not so much from a visual design perspective, which is where my attention tends to stay firmly focused.

 

[jqavins]

There's more to tube fins than surrounding the base of the airframe. Here's a quick and dirty Visio rendition. I've got a much more detailed RS design which is currently unavailable. Colors differentiate various parts and are not intended to indicate a paint scheme.

 

[Nytrunner]

Technically *extremely* interesting, but not so much from a visual design perspective, which is where my attention tends to stay firmly focused.

It's a tube. There is elegance in simplicity

 

[neil_w]

There's more to tube fins than surrounding the base of the airframe.]

Yup, I getcha. I probably will expend a bit of mental effort to make sure I don't overlook what can be done with tube fins. I only wish it were easier to visualize non-square cuts; I'm not enthusiastic about doing everything in CAD but maybe no choice.

 

[jqavins]

Yep, I getcha right back on the difficulty of the renderings, and that neither OR not RS can be counted on to really simulate the performance of non square cuts.

 

[Nytrunner]

Yup, I getcha. I probably will expend a bit of mental effort to make sure I don't overlook what can be done with tube fins. I only wish it were easier to visualize non-square cuts; I'm not enthusiastic about doing everything in CAD but maybe no choice.

OR workaround for Kraken. Tube fin in location of full tube, flat fin illustrating profile of cut.

 

[jqavins]

But A) that doesn't account for how the slanted cut might affect the CP, and B) it only works for flat bias cuts.

 

[Nytrunner]

Cut tube fins catch air just like a fin, just curvy.

Openrocket is the very personification of WAG anyway. Tricking it into something that mimics reality is better than nothing

 

[BABAR]

A ring fin ATTACHED with tube fins might be an interesting concept ("Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel, never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel......")

 

[jqavins]

"Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel, never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel...")

So the tube pylons should be canted to make it spin!

 

[boatgeek]

A ring fin ATTACHED with tube fins might be an interesting concept ("Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel, never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel......")

So I think I know the answer to this, but would it be possible to make the tube fins roller bearings and the outer ring an outer race? A couple of canted fins on the outside could make it spin... Simple machines or simple minded? you be the judge.

 

[neil_w]

A ring fin ATTACHED with tube fins might be an interesting concept ("Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel, never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel......")

To be fair, I have been down that road a bit before...