Need Super Scale Data

Discussion in 'Scale' started by ClusterNut, Oct 29, 2011.

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  1. Oct 29, 2011 #1

    ClusterNut

    ClusterNut

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    I would like to do a super scale project but I am having a difficult time finding data on launchers. I did a search in the forum and nothing seemed to pop up. Not to say that there isn't anything since I may not have picked the right terms. Any suggestions for photos and data on launchers for things like Nike-Apache, Nike-Tomahawk, Super Loki-Dart? Or others like V2?

    Thanks in advance for any help! :)
     
  2. Oct 29, 2011 #2

    NAR29996

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    NARTS has some scale launcher plans, IIRC.
     
  3. Oct 30, 2011 #3

    luke strawwalker

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    Rockets of the World by Peter Alway and the supplements, available from NARTS.

    Happy hunting! OL JR :)
     
  4. Oct 30, 2011 #4

    kjohnson

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    All sorts of fun stuff here:
    http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp

    The first PDF I found after searching for nike apache had several photos of launchers.

    kj
     
  5. Oct 31, 2011 #5

    ClusterNut

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    I have something from NARTS on the Nike Apache but it didn't have the launcher. I should recheck though since I got this materials decades ago.

    Duh, should have thought to search on a NASA site! :blush: Thanks for that pointer!
     
  6. Mar 18, 2012 #6

    Ez2cDave

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    I have DETAILED data on the I-Beam Launcher, used for Nike-Tomahawk and other sounding rockets.

    Shoot me an E-Mail . . . Ez2cDave@aol.com

    Dave F.
     
  7. Mar 18, 2012 #7

    sooner.boomer

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    Any way you could post it here so we all benefit?
     
  8. Mar 19, 2012 #8

    stantonjtroy

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    I shot these last time I went to Wallops. Hope they help.

    101_0308.jpg

    101_0309.jpg

    101_0310.jpg

    101_0311.jpg
     
  9. Mar 19, 2012 #9

    Ez2cDave

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    I can post some of it . . . It totals about 75 MB with all data included.

    Dave F.
     
  10. Mar 19, 2012 #10

    Ez2cDave

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    These are the ORIGINAL drawings, done by Howard Kuhn in the early 1970's.

    I will post up more data, but I am limited to 5 attachments per post.

    Dave F.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  11. Mar 19, 2012 #11

    Ez2cDave

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    These are the ORIGINAL photographs, taken by Howard Kuhn.

    Dave F.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  12. Mar 19, 2012 #12

    Ez2cDave

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    More ORIGINAL photographs, taken by Howard Kuhn.

    Also, more data on the launcher itself

    Dave F.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  13. Mar 19, 2012 #13

    Micromeister

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    Heres the Photo I used to produce my Nike-Smoke launcher. It's the same Wallops Island launcher Troy posted with the Nike-Apache on it.

    Nike-Apache-a01_Ful View & Launcher Color_05-90.jpg

    Nike-Tomahawk_Wallops_p132c_1974-5.jpg

    Nike-Smoke-a6a_on Launcher Pic-1 300dpi_02-08-67.jpg

    Nike-Smoke-a6c_on Launcher Pic-3 300dpi_02-08-67.jpg
     
  14. Mar 19, 2012 #14

    ClusterNut

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    This is really cool stuff. :D I will have no excuse for taking (ahem :eek:) years to complete my NARtrek project like it did with my NARtrek gold. Thanks for posting for my benefit and the benefit of the forum!
     
  15. Mar 21, 2012 #15

    Ez2cDave

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    Mike,

    Have a great build !

    Dave F.
     
  16. Jun 8, 2012 #16

    Ez2cDave

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    Mike,

    How is your project coming along . . . I hope the data disk you got from me provided everything you needed ?

    Dave Fitch
     
  17. Jun 9, 2012 #17

    ClusterNut

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    I've assembled most of the parts and materials for the rocket. I need to decide how to handle a couple if details and I can start. The data disk is great. I should be able to work up a scale launcher from all the data. I have been looking at suppliers of wood and plastic components that could useful...places that have stuff for model trains and doll houses.

    Have you made any firm plans for the data?
     
  18. Sep 15, 2012 #18

    Ez2cDave

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    Sorry for the long delay . . .

    No plans for the data yet - I have been toying with the idea of simply giving all of my scale data to 5 or 6 different online sources ( NINFINGER, etc ) to ensure that it is not lost to the rocketry community and would be freely available to everyone.

    As of today, I have almost 53 GB of data stored . . .

    Dave F.
     
  19. Sep 15, 2012 #19

    ClusterNut

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    I've delayed too. In building, that is. I am doing some scratch builds that require techniques I will need for this project but have never tried before. I get an interesting sport flyer and work the bugs out before moving on to this project.

    Have you tried NARTS as a way of distributing this information?
     
  20. Nov 6, 2018 #20

    Ez2cDave

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    Yes, I know it's 6 years later . . .

    I would prefer it all to be available, free of charge, in an online "Library" type setup . . . NARTS would charge ( overcharge ) for access to the data. Considering the vast volume of material, it would cost a fortune to acquire it by those means. Presently, it is over 200 GB, with in excess of 100.000 files.

    My goal is that the data would be easily accessible by modelers all over the world . . . A "legacy", if you will, that would perpetuate, long after I am gone.

    Dave F.
     
  21. Nov 8, 2018 #21

    BigRiJoe

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    MediaFire account, Dave?
     
  22. Nov 9, 2018 #22

    vcp

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    I'd never considered anything other than dropbox, but this article has a bunch of options:
    https://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-cloud-storage

    Trouble is, it details the best free storage, and the best business storage, but doesn't break out the best low-cost personal storage ~100GB-1TB. Have to look closer. Dropbox is dead simple to use, but its 1TB/$10/mo is more than I want.
     
  23. Nov 9, 2018 #23

    Ez2cDave

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    MediaFire is very similar to Dropbox and others . . .10 GB free and then you pay for it, incrementally. There is over 200 GB of data and more than 100,000 files.

    Since I want to leave something that would long "out-survive" me, who would continue to pay for it ? Also, if a website goes away, so does all the data !

    Dave F.
     
  24. Nov 12, 2018 #24

    Eagle3

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  25. Nov 12, 2018 #25

    Ez2cDave

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    Buzz,

    Actually, Howard's data only pertained to the I-Beam Launcher.

    The Nike-Tomahawk data is from the 1983 Model Rocketeer Super Scale article, based on "edited" Don Larson data, done by the author of the article. In doing so, he introduced an ERROR into the data, by calling the "Cream-colored" stripe on the Nose Cone "Natural Steel". "Natural Steel" is impossible, since the White, upper portion of the nose cone is Ceramic, while the lower Brown section is Phenolic.

    I believe that the "Cream-colored stripe" in the original 1974 Model Rocketeer data is actually a strip of masking tape, likely used when the two sections of the nose cone were bonded together.

    Dave F.

    GD-28-195-NOSECONE-ORIGINAL_CROP.jpg


    PAYLOAD_DETAIL_C.jpg

    NIKE-TOMAHAWK-PAYLOAD-COLOR.jpg
     
  26. Nov 13, 2018 #26

    Leo

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    Thanks for this info.
     
  27. Nov 13, 2018 #27

    Ez2cDave

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    More background info . . .


    The 1974 article was Don Larson's article. The 1983 one was written by Craig Beyers.

    In the 1983 article, Beyers claimed to have collaborated with BOTH Don Larson and Howard Kuhn.

    I can't vouch for whether he talked to Kuhn or not . . .

    BUT, when I visited Don Larson in September, 2004 to pick up all of his original data on Nike-Tomahawk 18.26 IA, I showed him the 1983 article. He had never spoken with Beyers or collaborated with anyone on 18.26 IA and the article was a complete surprise to him . . . Interpret that as you will !

    Don immediately noticed the aforementioned error and he was upset that his participation had been misrepresented by Beyers, along with his drawings & photo's being used, and altered, without his permission.

    A pic from my meeting with Don Larson ( below )

    Dave F. Don-Larson-9-12-2004-C.jpg NIKE-TOMAHAWK DATA001.jpg NIKE-TOMAHAWK DATA002.jpg
     
  28. Nov 14, 2018 #28

    Leo

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    Dave,

    I have the may 1983 issue with the scale data of the rocket and I'm in the process of designing with CAD for 3D print. Are all the dimensions shown in the issue correct and if not could you tell which ones need correction.
    I don't want to put all the work into the CAD design and then having to change it. This is for the rocket only, not the launcher.

    Thanks!

    Leo
     
  29. Nov 16, 2018 #29

    Ez2cDave

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    Leo,

    As I previously posted, I am in collaboration with another rocketeer, developing a highly-accurate set of data for 18.26 IA. The data I have obtained, in addition to Don Larson's original data, came through several years of FOIA requests and international emails with the Max Planck Institute ( MPE ) in Germany, and other entities directly involved in the project.

    With that said, at this time, I will only address the 1974 data and 1983 data from the Model Rocketeer and how they compare with each other. Yes, there are errors in both the 1974 and, most certainly, the 1983 data.

    Here we go . . .


    COLORS:

    1974 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1983

    FINS . . . . . . 1 Fluorescent Yellow / 3 Fluorescent Red . . . . . . . . 1 Fluorescent Yellow / 3 Fluorescent Red
    NIKE BODY . . . . . . Flat White . . . . . . Flat White
    CRADLE MARKS . . . . . . Artillery Olive . . . . . . Artillery Olive
    UNITED STATES . . . . . . Black . . . . . . Gloss Black
    INTERSTAGE . . . . . . Flat White . . . . . . Flat White
    TOMAHAWK BODY . . . . . . Silver . . . . . . Natural Steel
    FIN CAN . . . . . . Not Indicated . . . . . . Not Indicated ( clearly from the photo below, the Fin Can & Motor are NOT the same color )
    DE-SPIN UNIT . . . . . . Silver . . . . . . Not Indicated ( might mislead a modeler into believing it is Red )
    PAYLOAD . . . . . . Flat Red . . . . . . Gloss Red
    PAYLOAD LETTERING . . . . . . White . . . . . . Gloss White
    NOSE CONE BASE . . . . . . Flat Brown . . . . . . Bakelite Brown ( the nose cone base is made of Phenolic and has a "mottled" appearance )
    "STRIPE" . . . . . . Cream . . . . . . Natural Steel ( impossible, since the nose cone is Ceramic, with a Phenolic base, Non-Metallic )
    UPPER NOSE CONE . . . . . . Flat White . . . . . . Gloss White



    GROSS DIMENSIONS:

    1974 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1983

    NIKE FINS . . . . . . . SAME . . . . . . SAME
    BOOSTER LENGTH . . . . . . SAME . . . . . . SAME
    BOOSTER DIAMETER . . . . . . SAME . . . . . . SAME
    CRADLE MARKS . . . . . . Width Not Supplied . . . . . . 6" Wide ( no source cited )
    FIN CENTER TO FRONT OF M-5 . . . . . . 114.0" . . . . . . Dimension Missing
    FIN CAN . . . . . . Vertical Line - 9 Allen Head Screws . . . . . . Vertical Weld Line
    TOMAHAWK FINS . . . . . SAME . . . . . . SAME
    TE-416 LENGTH . . . . . . SAME . . . . . . SAME
    PAYLOAD, INCL. DE-SPIN UNIT . . . . . . SAME . . . . . . SAME
    PAYLOAD - NUMBER OF SCREWS . . . . . . SAME . . . . . . SAME
    OVERALL LENGTH . . . . . . SAME . . . . . . SAME



    That is a basic "head to head" comparison of the 1974 data and the 1983 data. So, for the purposes of what data has been widely available for the past 44 years and 35 years, respectively, it is as accurate as it has ever been, with the exception of the discrepancies noted above. With that said, the documentation being worked on will be highly-accurate, as nearly all of the data is coming directly from original photographs, drawings, and other documentation & correspondence, rather than reusing the 1974 & 1983 Model Rocketeer articles as "canon".

    I am the owner of both the Larson & Kuhn data, and although I would love to share things in much greater detail, I will refrain from doing so, until our collaboration has produced a "final product" we are satisfied with and confident in its accuracy !

    Dave F.

    NASA Photo W-66-271 -CROP.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
  30. Nov 16, 2018 #30

    Leo

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    Thanks very much Dave!

    I look very much forward to when your project is complete!
     

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