# need some opinions/advice re: FAR 1030 competition

### Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

##### Well-Known Member
I was thinking of entering the FAR1030 competition as an individual ( + maybe some friends at DARs (dars.org)). I know there's limited slots and I would hate to cause a college team planning to enter to miss out by taking up a slot.

Have non-college teams entered competitions like this before or is there kind of an unwritten rule to leave it for the students?

#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
This is a great question -- I've half considered, if I restart my Masters can I have enough of an excuse to play? Gives plausible cover for work and home....

#### High Desert Rocketry

##### Well-Known Member
I was thinking of entering the FAR1030 competition as an individual ( + maybe some friends at DARs (dars.org)). I know there's limited slots and I would hate to cause a college team planning to enter to miss out by taking up a slot.

Have non-college teams entered competitions like this before or is there kind of an unwritten rule to leave it for the students?

Last year an individual wanted to join but then bailed when he saw the requirements. I think he thought it was just a closest to competition.

https://secureservercdn.net/198.71....petition-2019-2020-June-6-edited-v5-final.pdf

We still have 3 slots open if you wish to compete...I wish I could as I like competition/cooperation things.

##### Well-Known Member
Last year an individual wanted to join but then bailed when he saw the requirements. I think he thought it was just a closest to competition.

https://secureservercdn.net/198.71....petition-2019-2020-June-6-edited-v5-final.pdf

We still have 3 slots open if you wish to compete...I wish I could as I like competition/cooperation things.
Was discussing this with my wife and she ever so subtly reminded me that the comp. date is our 10 year wedding anniversary. Therefore, I think i'll pass but thank you for the reply.

I do want to get involved in stuff like this, when i was in college i was part of a lab that competed in an Autonomous Vehicles competition. It was awesome and the people I met in that lab had a tremendous impact on my career and became lifelong friends.

#### mbeels

##### Yes balsa
TRF Supporter
I do want to get involved in stuff like this, when i was in college i was part of a lab that competed in an Autonomous Vehicles competition. It was awesome and the people I met in that lab had a tremendous impact on my career and became lifelong friends.
That reminds me of doing the AIAA Design Build Fly competitions in college, I had the same positive experiences. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

#### High Desert Rocketry

##### Well-Known Member
Was discussing this with my wife and she ever so subtly reminded me that the comp. date is our 10 year wedding anniversary. Therefore, I think i'll pass but thank you for the reply.

I do want to get involved in stuff like this, when i was in college i was part of a lab that competed in an Autonomous Vehicles competition. It was awesome and the people I met in that lab had a tremendous impact on my career and became lifelong friends.
I'm open to a different competition on a another date...ideas?

Rick

#### High Desert Rocketry

##### Well-Known Member
Next year I'm planning on several competitions.

1) a Nsec per foot competition. The rocket that uses the least amount of Nsec per foot would win.
this would require the use of commercial motors since it would be difficult to detemin EX.
What altitude? 10,000' and 25,000'? 50,000'?

2) maybe a 'SCAM' competition. The smallest case for altitude motor to 10,000' for experimental motors.

3) the Wide Body competition? Largest diameter rocket to reach 1,000' or between 1,000-2,000'

4) the Skinny, narrowest rocket (airframe) to reach 5,000' (10,000'?) or D/A ratio (diameter/altitude).

5) the Heavy Lift competition, rocket lifting the most WATER to 5,000'

All of these would of course require a successful recovery system.
Have between 1-5 claiber sim stability.

Thoughts? Altitude changes? Any takers?

Last edited:

#### mikec

##### Well-Known Member
I've been building a project to fly at FAR to get as close to 50K as possible with a two-stage commercial motor rocket, so I'd be interested in 1 at 50K.

I've also always been curious about whether it was possible to get a waiver above 50K AGL at FAR without a huge effort.

#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
For 1) just do motormass ( incl. casing ) vs. altitude.

Essentially a cheap pass at bulk density without having to fully characterize.

#### beeblebrox

##### 8 C6-0, 12 D11-9, 20 D20-0, 20 E5-0, 3 Cinerocs
Next year I'm planning on several competitions.

1) a Nsec per foot competition. The rocket that uses the least amount of Nsec per foot would win.
this would require the use of commercial motors since it would be difficult to detemin EX.
What altitude? 10,000' and 25,000'? 50,000'?

2) maybe a 'SCAM' competition. The smallest case for altitude motor to 10,000' for experimental motors.

3) the Wide Body competition? Largest diameter rocket to reach 1,000' or between 1,000-2,000'

4) the Skinny, narrowest rocket (airframe) to reach 5,000' (10,000'?) or D/A ratio (diameter/altitude).

5) the Heavy Lift competition, rocket lifting the most WATER to 5,000'

All of these would of course require a successful recovery system.
Have between 1-5 claiber sim stability.

Thoughts? Altitude changes? Any takers?

J-Beerloft [Max diameter 2.6" Max weight 5lb] ... I think, You had to launch,recover get back to the launch area, (On foot) and consume the entire 12 oz can...in the least amount of time.
Jerry if you are watching...please clarify any errors...thx...bwaaaaaahahaha

#### High Desert Rocketry

##### Well-Known Member
For 1) just do motormass ( incl. casing ) vs. altitude.

Essentially a cheap pass at bulk density without having to fully characterize.
Maybe for #2 ?

#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
1) a Nsec per foot competition. The rocket that uses the least amount of Nsec per foot would win.
this would require the use of commercial motors since it would be difficult to detemin EX.
What altitude? 10,000' and 25,000'? 50,000'?
For 1) just do motormass ( incl. casing ) vs. altitude. Essentially a cheap pass at bulk density without having to fully characterize.
Maybe for #2 ?
Nope, I really meant #1, i.e.

1) an ounces per foot competition.
The rocket that uses the least motor mass per foot of altitude would win. No altitude limit, but rather a total system mass ( including igniter ) upper limit e.g. 1500g or 2268g à la Hamster Dance .

This should allow both commercial, modified commercial, and full EX to compete fairly against each other without full propellant characterization. It will also have a low barrier to entry ( buy a K, use off-the-shelf 900mhz tracking ).

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
J-Beerloft [Max diameter 2.6" Max weight 5lb] ... I think, You had to launch,recover get back to the launch area, (On foot) and consume the entire 12 oz can...in the least amount of time.
Jerry if you are watching...please clarify any errors...thx...bwaaaaaahahaha
That's a good one!

In the abandoned NAR High-Power contest code, there's a competition that scores by highest altitude achieved but penalizes for time it takes to return rocket to the LCO. A tradeoff between altitude vs drift and demonstration of tracking skill to be sure.

#### High Desert Rocketry

##### Well-Known Member
I've been building a project to fly at FAR to get as close to 50K as possible with a two-stage commercial motor rocket, so I'd be interested in 1 at 50K.

I've also always been curious about whether it was possible to get a waiver above 50K AGL at FAR without a huge effort.
The first competition I was planning at FAR was going to be 'the FAR 50', a competition to 50,000' without busting the standing waiver. The highest waiver asked for at FAR has been 175,000' by a team of students from San Jose State University for a commercial 2-stage rocket seen lifting off at 2:20 in this video.

Any project over 40,000 Nsec or 50,000' at FAR requires an FAA class 3 waiver. They are free and just requires some additional paper work you send to the FAA in Renton, Washington for approval. If you are a member of Tripoli, you can get assistance here: http://www.tripoli.org/C3RC

Last edited:

#### High Desert Rocketry

##### Well-Known Member
the FAR-1030 competition postponed...because of the C-19 virus school mandated closures, only two of the 15 registered teams for the FAR-1030 have indicated they could still be ready next month's competition date(s). Because of this, we are scubbing the launch until a later date this year.
Most team's that have responded to our inqury have indicated a launch between Sept-Dec would be best. Two teams indicated they would prefer next year and be registered for the 2021 FAR-1030.
We will now be determining when during the FALL to hold the competition.

Registration fee will be due after the new date is selected.

##### Well-Known Member
the FAR-1030 competition postponed...because of the C-19 virus school mandated closures, only two of the 15 registered teams for the FAR-1030 have indicated they could still be ready next month's competition date(s). Because of this, we are scubbing the launch until a later date this year.
Most team's that have responded to our inqury have indicated a launch between Sept-Dec would be best. Two teams indicated they would prefer next year and be registered for the 2021 FAR-1030.
We will now be determining when during the FALL to hold the competition.

Registration fee will be due after the new date is selected.