Need Some Ideas on Making This a Reality

[markschnell]

My son is nine years old and my rocket buddy. He made me this card for Father's Day with this rocket he calls the old arrow. He says the top is like a Native American stone arrow head. The x under the top is the wraps the keep the arrow head on the shaft. The fins are supposed to be feather vanes. Any ideas on the nosecone, or have you seen one like this? I'm sure I can glue up a balsa top and shape it. I've seen a few arrow rockets, but not a rustic style one like this. What do you think?

 

[neil_w]

Three ways to build a nose like that:
1) 3D-print
2) A set of triangular pieces of wood, assembled as shown.
3) Start with a conical nose cone and sand, sand, sand

I'd go with #2. Doesn't seem terribly difficult, actually.

 

[kuririn]

For me, the easiest way would be to make a top and bottom half.
Cut six balsa triangles, bevel the edges and butt joint together for each half.
Then glue the top and bottom halves together.
If you want to challenge yourself, do interlocking tabs and notches instead of butt joints.
Like this New Way square HoJo nose cone I just put together:


Of course yours would have six sides instead of four.

 

[mbeels]

I've vote #2 as well. And, to make it easier, order a nose block from https://www.balsamachining.com/ for the size body tube you'll use. Then, glue the triangular wood pieces to that.

Neat design! Post a build thread here if you build it!

 

[kuririn]

PS Forgot to mention that the tube would have a V cut and the lower half of the nose cone would be glued to a coupler, which would be the shoulder. Paint white Xs for the lashings.

 

[Zeus-cat]

You could get something like this and sand it down so that it was flat on 3 or 4 sides.



https://www.erockets.biz/semroc-balsa-nose-cone-6-4-6-flared-conical/

 

[Off Grid Gecko]

Get a wooden nose cone and sand the sides flat. You can serrate the edges with a file for a more flint-knapped look. Buy a roll of sinew and wrap the top of the tube with it, using wood glue or epoxy to hold it down. Any imperfections in the hand-winding job will only add to the appeal. If you want it clean you can notch the top of the tube and drill a small hole where you want the wrap to end and glue it up with the excess inside the rocket and then trim after it cures.
I would not recommend feathers for the fins, unless it's a micromaxx. Perhaps that's what this should be, with a long body and a streamer to recover, in red of course

 

[Off Grid Gecko]

PS, you can test a small fletched arrow rocket by throwing it

 

[OverTheTop]

I would glue string on for the lashings.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

What about sanding a styrofoam ball to the desired shape and apply cut label stickers to the sides, then spray with sandable primer. I like the gluing of rope to the BT. You can cut the fins out of balsa.

 

[markschnell]

Wow, these are all great ideas. Thanks a bunch!! When we build this I'll do a build thread for sure!

 

[markschnell]

PS Forgot to mention that the tube would have a V cut and the lower half of the nose cone would be glued to a coupler, which would be the shoulder. Paint white Xs for the lashings.

I love this idea with the coupler being the shoulder. That let's me do all kinds of stuff with the nosecone without worrying about the seal.

 

[tsmith1315]

You could get something like this and sand it down so that it was flat on 3 or 4 sides.


https://www.erockets.biz/semroc-balsa-nose-cone-6-4-6-flared-conical/

Or this: https://www.erockets.biz/semroc-balsa-nose-cone-6-4-6-flared-conical/

A disc or belt sander would make short work of taking a balsa cone down to 6 flat sides.

You could just get it close and finish it off with a sharp pocket knife, to look more like it was knapped.

 

[Onebadhawk]

I would glue string on for the lashings.

That's a great idea..
This sure is wonderful,
good for you,, you and your sone will remember these times forever..

Chuck H one of the moderators of this forum is newly into 3D printing
and has been looking for cool things to print..

Personally, I don't think theres a cooler item to print then this..
I wish I could do it for you..

Teddy

 

[markschnell]

I found some nosecones from Semroc on erockets.com that might be a good starting point to sand down. BTW - Semroc has a HUGE amount of balsa nosecones and plenty of them in interesting configurations. They have a transition piece between a BT-80 to a BT-5. I was thinking of some fun stuff I could do with that. But, I digress...Here's a screenshot of those nosecones.

 

[neil_w]

Just MHO, but I would suspect sanding down an existing cone will be much more difficult (and less fun) than building one up from triangular pieces of wood.

Also, you'll need to make sure the base of the nose cone is larger than your target body tube, because it will get smaller from sanding.

 

[mbeels]

Just MHO, but I would suspect sanding down an existing cone will be much more difficult (and less fun) than building one up from triangular pieces of wood.

I'll second this, I think it will be harder to get the sides regular. If you cut triangular pieces, you can stack them, sand them together, and make them match. And then glue around a nose block like this:

 

[BABAR]

Stop, stop, stop, and STOP!

This is easy and cheap.

Fold it Origami style out of card stock. You really want an authentic, rough look, use fine sandpaper, with the rough side out. It’ll look like sandstone, you won’t even need to paint it.

I’ve been doing paper nose pyramids for almost a decade, usually I use card stock mail advertisements (the stiff, shiny ones, usually about 6 x 10 inches or so), covered with Mylar tape.

Make a forward pyramid, and a rear pyramid, cut off the apex of the rear to fit your tube.

You can add whatever weight you want inside the paper cone.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...non-competition-helicopter.39114/#post-364482Post 25

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...ir-brake-recovery-rocket.145077/#post-1782279
Post 22

 

[Vitruvius]

My son is nine years old and my rocket buddy. He made me this card for Father's Day with this rocket he calls the old arrow. He says the top is like a Native American stone arrow head. The x under the top is the wraps the keep the arrow head on the shaft. The fins are supposed to be feather vanes. Any ideas on the nosecone, or have you seen one like this? I'm sure I can glue up a balsa top and shape it. I've seen a few arrow rockets, but not a rustic style one like this. What do you think?

Mark, the more I look at Your son's design, the more I think, that with the continued support that He might just be one heckuva rocket scientist in His own right once He gets through college. His design idea is MAGNIFICENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[markschnell]

@Vitruvius I showed him your comment and his smile was from ear to ear. Thanks for that!

 

[markschnell]

@BABAR, LOVE your idea for the cardstock. Also, love that it is cheap!! Thanks a bunch.

 

[BABAR]

@BABAR, LOVE your idea for the cardstock. Also, love that it is cheap!! Thanks a bunch.

not sure what age they start teaching sin and cosine and tangent at. In any case, watch your mail and keep those stiff single sheet card stock advertisement. They work for practice and for the real thing if you want (I keep a bunch of them, I use them to cut templates, and as a quick way to measure and draw right angles when I need to, as well as using them for nose pyramids.)

Assuming a roughly symmetrical nose pyramid (You CAN make it flat edged, but will run into some mild stability issues, none of which can't be fixed with some nose weight), each triangular facet is an isosceles triangle. Bisect it lengthwise and you get two right triangles.

Decide how big you want your pyramid to be. Decide how many sides you want it to have (6 might be good for this design, but 3, 4,5, and even 7 may work. 8 may be overkill and not look right.)

Now play with sin, cosine, and a protractor to get the lengths and the angles. For beginners, just cut out one facet as a template, then use it to draw adjacent triangles. Use the non-sharp side of your knife or a small point pen to "score" to long sides, it will make folding much easier. Leave tabs on the free edges to either connect two pyramids (one forward and one back) or if you use a single pyramid, to attach to some sort of nose cone base . Because card stock is cheap, it is easy to play with a bunch of different numbers and sizes of facets, while using Trigonometry. Great teaching moment. Have fun!

 

[Vitruvius]

@Vitruvius I showed him your comment and his smile was from ear to ear. Thanks for that!

I just call them as I see them! His smile alone is evidence that He will do it!!!!! It's a brilliant idea He had and gives me hope for the future. You just might have a budding "Zephram Cochrane" there.

 

[Vitruvius]

not sure what age they start teaching sin and cosine and tangent at. In any case, watch your mail and keep those stiff single sheet card stock advertisement. They work for practice and for the real thing if you want (I keep a bunch of them, I use them to cut templates, and as a quick way to measure and draw right angles when I need to, as well as using them for nose pyramids.)

Assuming a roughly symmetrical nose pyramid (You CAN make it flat edged, but will run into some mild stability issues, none of which can't be fixed with some nose weight), each triangular facet is an isosceles triangle. Bisect it lengthwise and you get two right triangles.

Decide how big you want your pyramid to be. Decide how many sides you want it to have (6 might be good for this design, but 3, 4,5, and even 7 may work. 8 may be overkill and not look right.)

Now play with sin, cosine, and a protractor to get the lengths and the angles. For beginners, just cut out one facet as a template, then use it to draw adjacent triangles. Use the non-sharp side of your knife or a small point pen to "score" to long sides, it will make folding much easier. Leave tabs on the free edges to either connect two pyramids (one forward and one back) or if you use a single pyramid, to attach to some sort of nose cone base . Because card stock is cheap, it is easy to play with a bunch of different numbers and sizes of facets, while using Trigonometry. Great teaching moment. Have fun!

Barbar, I am in TOTAL agreement with You. I also agree about keeping those cardstock ads. Something else I do, which might be of interest to folks, is to save the plastic coated pseudo credit card ads and use them for bulkheads, seats in models etc. I used some years ago to make the cockpit for my Flying Fireball XL5 model. I think You all get what I mean. Cheers

 

[BABAR]

I have a big stack of old hotel key cards I frequently use. On my helicopter Rockets I use them when I have to attach two balsa pieces with glue. I put a card on each side and hold it together with clothespins. Plastic key cards are fairly close to a nonstick surface and comes off quite easily. They also work for swiping glue down on flat surfaces and for lots of other sundry items. Oh yeah they also work for pulleys for pull bands on some of my Rockets

 

[PhlAsh]

get a balsa block - 3x3x5 (or so) - drill a 1/4 hole and glue in a dowel (leaving about an inch sticking out) - clamp your drill to a bench and chuck-up your now-dried assembly in. Using 80grit sandpaper or a very sharp stanley-knife (and googles!), shape a shoulder to fit a bt-50 (0.96" dia x 0.5" lg), the make the rest an egg-shape - once you're happy with the shape, create the facets with a belt sander (or hand-sand or even whittling)

 

[lakeroadster]

Any ideas on the nosecone, or have you seen one like this? I'm sure I can glue up a balsa top and shape it. I've seen a few arrow rockets, but not a rustic style one like this. What do you think?

Neat project.

I agree with the comments about taking multiple pieces of balsa and gluing them together. Basically you're making balsa (or basswood) plywood. Alternate the grain patterns and you'll end up with a really strong part that is light weight. I use Gorilla wood glue and then stack weight on the parts until they are dry.

If you start with a solid nose cone you may end up with splitting issues once you start modifying it.

 

[BABAR]

My son is nine years old and my rocket buddy. He made me this card for Father's Day with this rocket he calls the old arrow. He says the top is like a Native American stone arrow head. The x under the top is the wraps the keep the arrow head on the shaft. The fins are supposed to be feather vanes. Any ideas on the nosecone, or have you seen one like this? I'm sure I can glue up a balsa top and shape it. I've seen a few arrow rockets, but not a rustic style one like this. What do you think?

Just played around with some origami style.
The left side is made out of sandpaper. The right is cardstock covered with masking tape

The angle is 14 degrees (went just under 15 to give a bit of overlap, turns out 15 would have been fine,
They weight just about nothing

 

[Rktman]

Just played around with some origami style.
The left side is made out of sandpaper. The right is cardstock covered with masking tape

The angle is 14 degrees (went just under 15 to give a bit of overlap, turns out 15 would have been fine,
They weight just about nothingView attachment 422715View attachment 422716View attachment 422717View attachment 422718

Very cool. The sandpaper version has that gritty rock-like texture, though I'm more partial to the masking tape version because of its chiseled "hand-hewn" appearance like a real arrowhead (especially if painted). The sandpaper cone might need a little internal reinforcement (CA?). All comes down to the builder's (and his son's) preference of course. Other benefits are relative ease of construction and low or zero cost if you already have the materials. Just my 2 cents.

 

[neil_w]

You certainly don't see a nose cone made out of sandpaper every day.

Which brings up another rocket idea: one made completely out of rocket-building supplies.