Need some help with design ideas and or kits

[Lt72884]

I am going to be level; 2 certified very soon. I am doing a school project where we need to send a rocket up to 10,000 feet with a 9LB object of some sorts. Does not matter what the object is, just needs to be a weight of 9LB's.

We have the option of designing it ourselves or using a kit.

What kind of kits are available for this?
What kind of designs are available if we build it ourselves, and do you have any recommendation for YouTube videos for something similar to what we are doing so we have a starting point?

thank you all for the help

 

[MClark]

I suggest a 5 or 6” fiberglass rocket and get an extra coupler and put 9 lbs of lead shot in it. Extra space of a larger diameter adds versatility and prep in field is easier.
A 4” may work if the main parachute will fit.
Size motor to achieve required altitude.

something like this
https://wildmanrocketry.com/collections/5-fiberglass/products/competitor-5

 

[user 30299]

I am going to be level; 2 certified very soon. I am doing a school project where we need to send a rocket up to 10,000 feet with a 9LB object of some sorts. Does not matter what the object is, just needs to be a weight of 9LB's.

We have the option of designing it ourselves or using a kit.

What kind of kits are available for this?
What kind of designs are available if we build it ourselves, and do you have any recommendation for YouTube videos for something similar to what we are doing so we have a starting point?

thank you all for the help

Here's a couple of questions for you before providing any advice . . .

~ Is this school project for a College?

~ Will this project eventually be tied to a competition?

~ Are you working with a mentor or advisor that has HPR experience, and is possibly Level 3 certified?

10,000 ft. and 9 lbs. of dead weight is a rocket that will take a substantial motor ("M" to start),
and would need redundant flight controllers to make sure it has a safe recovery. And I'm just
scratching the surface of what it will take.

 

[75Grandville]

Think I understand the question - you're currently working on your level 2, looking toward the contest flight, and asking for input about kits/designs for that. I'm going to agree with the recommendation for fiberglass.

I'm personally fond of Wildman Rocketry kits - my L2 and L3 rockets are both Wildman kits. He's got plenty of designs that could be adapted toward this. Most of the teams that I have seen have at least one L3 person, as this is generally going to require an M engine. You might be able to pull it off with a minimum diameter 54mm build with a L1000, but that's a level of skill above L3 IMHO (precision, tip to tip lamination, etc). Madcow also has some fiberglass kits you could look at. There may be other newer players in the fiberglass kit space that I'm not aware of - I don't keep up on things like I used to.

If you are going to design it yourself, you can look at some of the above kits as starting points, edit the designs in RockSim/Open Rocket, and start playing with things until you reach a design you like. In a general way, I suggest something where the body tube is 1 size bigger than the motor, so you can mount TTW fins, keep it to 3 fins (simpler is better), and keep the design simple. If you want to see folks that design awesome rockets, search for BALLS or 100k flights. Those are the folks designing their own rockets, motors, building up their fins in layers, etc. It's more than you need, but it should give you some ideas. There's at least one member in my club that's going for that sort of flight end of this month - amazing building skills.

Also, talk to folks at your local rocket club - guessing that there's one somewhere close by. They will have lots of input as well.

As QFactor mentioned, spend a lot of time flying at the L2 level if you can, practicing dual deployment (I run triple redundant - 3 altimeters - because the extra $50 for the third one is cheap insurance). Also make sure that you ground test! Watched some people trying to get L1 and their chutes didn't deploy. Especially with an extra 9 lbs of payload, safety needs to be number one priority.

Good luck!

 

[75Grandville]

You're in Utah - that means that we are your local club. Should have paid more attention. If you want to talk, send me a PM and I'll shoot you my phone number. I'd say we could talk at next week's launch, but 99% sure we're going to be shut down for fire danger.

 

[Lt72884]

Here's a couple of questions for you before providing any advice . . .

~ Is this school project for a College?

~ Will this project eventually be tied to a competition?

~ Are you working with a mentor or advisor that has HPR experience, and is possibly Level 3 certified?

10,000 ft. and 9 lbs. of dead weight is a rocket that will take a substantial motor ("M" to start),
and would need redundant flight controllers to make sure it has a safe recovery. And I'm just
scratching the surface of what it will take.

Yes, this is for a university

for competition, i do not know that for 100% certain. I know we will be launching it with the utah rocket club, but not sure if its for fun or comp

We are working with one of the professors at the school and i do not know if he is level 3 or not.

thanks

 

[Lt72884]

I suggest a 5 or 6” fiberglass rocket and get an extra coupler and put 9 lbs of lead shot in it. Extra space of a larger diameter adds versatility and prep in field is easier.
A 4” may work if the main parachute will fit.
Size motor to achieve required altitude.

something like this
https://wildmanrocketry.com/collections/5-fiberglass/products/competitor-5

ok, thank you. i will look into this as well. I will also find out more about what the future of this project is.. such as, are we going to comp or not haha

 

[Lt72884]

Think I understand the question - you're currently working on your level 2, looking toward the contest flight, and asking for input about kits/designs for that. I'm going to agree with the recommendation for fiberglass.

I'm personally fond of Wildman Rocketry kits - my L2 and L3 rockets are both Wildman kits. He's got plenty of designs that could be adapted toward this. Most of the teams that I have seen have at least one L3 person, as this is generally going to require an M engine. You might be able to pull it off with a minimum diameter 54mm build with a L1000, but that's a level of skill above L3 IMHO (precision, tip to tip lamination, etc). Madcow also has some fiberglass kits you could look at. There may be other newer players in the fiberglass kit space that I'm not aware of - I don't keep up on things like I used to.

If you are going to design it yourself, you can look at some of the above kits as starting points, edit the designs in RockSim/Open Rocket, and start playing with things until you reach a design you like. In a general way, I suggest something where the body tube is 1 size bigger than the motor, so you can mount TTW fins, keep it to 3 fins (simpler is better), and keep the design simple. If you want to see folks that design awesome rockets, search for BALLS or 100k flights. Those are the folks designing their own rockets, motors, building up their fins in layers, etc. It's more than you need, but it should give you some ideas. There's at least one member in my club that's going for that sort of flight end of this month - amazing building skills.

Also, talk to folks at your local rocket club - guessing that there's one somewhere close by. They will have lots of input as well.

As QFactor mentioned, spend a lot of time flying at the L2 level if you can, practicing dual deployment (I run triple redundant - 3 altimeters - because the extra $50 for the third one is cheap insurance). Also make sure that you ground test! Watched some people trying to get L1 and their chutes didn't deploy. Especially with an extra 9 lbs of payload, safety needs to be number one priority.

Good luck!

yes, that was my first concern on day one that i brought up.."what if the chute doesnt open? youll have a heavy missile falling towards people. we need a system in place to help prevent this"

I have built really small rockets before. but not this hahaha

 

[user 30299]

Yes, this is for a university

for competition, i do not know that for 100% certain. I know we will be launching it with the utah rocket club, but not sure if its for fun or comp

We are working with one of the professors at the school and i do not know if he is level 3 or not.

thanks

Once you know more about the project, it would be a good idea to reach out to the Utah club and fill them in on your project.
Since you would be launching on their field it's a good idea, and common courtesy, to let them know in advance what may
be coming their way.

You will probably find some capable people in the club that can provide sound advice on the design and build.

Start there before running out and buying any old kit. Design before you buy . . .

 

[Hobie1dog]

9lbs?Where did they come up with that odd number?

 

[user 30299]

9lbs?Where did they come up with that odd number?

That’s the weight of (3) CubeSats.

The Spaceport Cup competition requires the team to have a payload
with a minimum weight of 8.8 lbs - (3) CubeSats.

The student that started this thread should also find out if the weight
needs to fit in the CubeSat dimensions.

 

[75Grandville]

yes, that was my first concern on day one that i brought up and no one else did.."what if the chute doesnt open? youll have a heavy missile falling towards people. we need a system in place to help prevent this"

I have built really small rockets before. but not this hahaha

Ground test, ground test, ground test! Took multiple tries to get the ejection charges dialed in. Main was 4g with 4.5g backup. Drogue was 5g with 6g backup. One altimeter to fire the primary, the second and third altimeters were wired to two separate ignitors in the the secondary.

• Primary: Missileworks RRC3
• Backup: Missileworks RRC2+
• Backup: Perfectflite Stratologger CF

And the RRC3 and Stratologger are both recording altimeters - you can download the whole flight profile rather than just the apogee.

Even if the chute doesn't come out, if it has separated it will likely come down in some sort of flat spin, rather than coming in ballistic.

View attachment IMG_2344[1].MOV

 

[JackC]

I think a 6 inch diameter fiberglass rocket would work well for you. Wildman is a great vendor to check out. You may also find a good 6 inch rocket with Composite Warehouse. A great rocket I can heartily recommend is the Performance Hobbies 2/3 scale IQSY Tomahawk (photo attached). This rocket weighs 40 pounds dry. It’s 11 feet tall.

The real IQSY Tomahawk was a sounding rocket, which is basically what the Spaceport America competition is all about. Ken is a great vendor, as well, and he can provide extra touches per your specifications (for instance, I prefer using plywood bulkplates and centering rings and he will provide them to you).

You may also want to take a look at the Aerobee 150 that Ken also sells.

I would not recommend the Astrobee or the Black Brant due to the swept back fins. If the rocket lands hard, the fin fillets may crack or pop a fin which can be a killer in a competition.

Finally, I would stick with a four fin design. NASA rarely, if ever, used a three fin sounding rocket. Four fin rockets are a bit more stable in my experience.

Anyway, good luck and Aim High!

 

[Lt72884]

9lbs?Where did they come up with that odd number?

no idea hahaha

 

[Lt72884]

That’s the weight of (3) CubeSats.

The Spaceport Cup competition requires the team to have a payload
with a minimum weight of 8.8 lbs - (3) CubeSats.

The student that started this thread should also find out if the weight
needs to fit in the CubeSat dimensions.

well damn, i will find that out soon. Ill ask today.

 

[Lt72884]

I think a 6 inch diameter fiberglass rocket would work well for you. Wildman is a great vendor to check out. You may also find a good 6 inch rocket with Composite Warehouse. A great rocket I can heartily recommend is the Performance Hobbies 2/3 scale IQSY Tomahawk (photo attached). This rocket weighs 40 pounds dry. It’s 11 feet tall.

The real IQSY Tomahawk was a sounding rocket, which is basically what the Spaceport America competition is all about. Ken is a great vendor, as well, and he can provide extra touches per your specifications (for instance, I prefer using plywood bulkplates and centering rings and he will provide them to you).

You may also want to take a look at the Aerobee 150 that Ken also sells.

I would not recommend the Astrobee or the Black Brant due to the swept back fins. If the rocket lands hard, the fin fillets may crack or pop a fin which can be a killer in a competition.

Finally, I would stick with a four fin design. NASA rarely, if ever, used a three fin sounding rocket. Four fin rockets are a bit more stable in my experience.

Anyway, good luck and Aim High!

thank you for this information. I will cj=heck it out. right now i need to figure out this spaceport stuff. i am so new to this that i am now overwhelmed of where to start haha.

 

[tfish]

https://spaceportamericacup.comSpaceport America Cup

https://www.soundingrocket.org/sa-cup-documents--forms.html
Best advise is ti find a NAR or TRA level 3 flier now. They will save you lots of time and money.
You are required to have them for the flyer of record at the event.

Contact TRA and/ or NAR for help in locating a mentor.


Tony

 

[dr wogz]

and start learning Open Rocket! That should be one of the first things you want to do: Design away in OR, and tweak / optimize as much as you can. You can launch a hundred designs with a hundred motors in a few afternoons.. all for the low cost of a Coke & plate of French fries! (or whatever snacks you student eat these days! )

 

[JackC]

I’m a mentor of a team and read the Cup documents. The specified weight for the payload is 8.8 pounds. That is the specified weight for 3 Cubesats. You can be a little under the 8.8 pound weight and not be penalized. There is no penalty for being above the 8.8 pound figure.

 

[JackC]

Another resource on sounding rockets is Peter Alway’s Rockets of the World book. I have the third edition. It has photos and scale drawings of a tremendous amount of sounding rockets. It’s a great book to get some ideas on airframes that may interest you.

 

[JackC]

and start learning Open Rocket! That should be one of the first things you want to do: Design away in OR, and tweak / optimize as much as you can. You can launch a hundred designs with a hundred motors in a few afternoons.. all for the low cost of a Coke & plate of French fries! (or whatever snacks you student eat these days! )

He’s right. OpenRocket is a Freeware rocket design and flight simulation program. There are many videos on YouTube that tell you about the program and shows you how to use it. Since it’s free, you can’t go wrong!

 

[Lt72884]

open rocket eh? I will get that ASAP.

 

[waltr]

open rocket eh? I will get that ASAP.

Link to latest version:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...-22-02-public-beta-4-is-now-available.171295/

 

[JackC]

open rocket eh? I will get that ASAP.

It’s actually OpenRocket!

If you’re interested in the 2/3 scale Tomahawk, I can send you my OpenRocket file for it.

 

[Lt72884]

It’s actually OpenRocket!

If you’re interested in the 2/3 scale Tomahawk, I can send you my OpenRocket file for it.

ok, that would be interesting to look at

thanks

 

[JackC]

ok, that would be interesting to look at

thanks

Okay, send me a PM with your email address and I will forward the file to you.

 

[user 30299]

Lt72884, is all this work for a class or are you part of a team that is entering a competition?

 

[Lt72884]

Lt72884, is all this work for a class or are you part of a team that is entering a competition?

for a class. Its our capstone project

 

[tfish]

for a class. Its our capstone project

Just wanting and submitting an application, does not guarantee that you will be picked to participate in Spaceport America Cup.
Things to do to improve your odds.
Get a certified L3 TRA or NAR mentor
Get a positive online presence for your team..going on.
Visit, and participate with your local club(s) Participate = setup - fly - learn -tare down
become certified
start with the basic 10K COTS class
Test fly your project
learn how to listen

Tony

 

[Lt72884]

Just wanting and submitting an application, does not guarantee that you will be picked to participate in Spaceport America Cup.
Things to do to improve your odds.
Get a certified L3 TRA or NAR mentor
Get a positive online presence for your team..going on.
Visit, and participate with your local club(s) Participate = setup - fly - learn -tare down
become certified
start with the basic 10K COTS class
Test fly your project
learn how to listen

Tony

ok, just had a team meeting and here is more information. Since alot of deadlines have been missed because of how the semesters fall etc etc. We are doing the spaceport stuff next year for the NEXT capstone seniors. So for OUR senior class, its to build a rocket that can meet those specifications and at least launch with the local rocket club for test flights etc etc. The 2023-24 senior class will be doing the spaceport or at least trying to.

our specific assignment is a rocket that can handle 9lbs for 10,000 feet using a rocket as close to spaceport specifications so next years class has a prototype to work off of.