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tsmith1315 said:
Yes, it certainly does make sense. But which one has the greater effect: increasing mass, or increasing drag through rocket diameter (aka, frontal area- remember the nose cone will be larger diameter, too)
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Increasing the weight certainly has more effect on the rocket's max height than the surface area.
 
gldknght said:
Your snotty attitude towards people who are only trying to help you is NOT making you any friends here. I'm done with this.
Click to expand...
And you are the one to say that? You were the one who was bragging about your "40 years of experience" I get that dude! But please I just started this stuff and I need to do some learning, other people are trying to help me learn except you who is giving off useless comments! I am trying my best to understand the fundamentals and also reading books on this and applying the knowledge to the rocket design I am making.
 
Ayush Chauhan said:
Increasing the weight certainly has more effect on the rocket's max height than the surface area.
Click to expand...

And how can you be certain? Have you seen an analysis? Are the components that influence both forces linear, or if exponential, both of the same order?

After burnout, when the rocket is coasting, will a rocket with higher or lower mass coast farther- holding all other things equal?

These are questions your teacher may be able to help you resolve, as well. Especially if you have the background theory and math to show him/her.

Sims can really help out in understanding and in bringing out questions to research. Save two or three copies of your rocket with different names. Change one thing on one sim and see what happens. Then try something else. Be sure to only change one thing, and you may have to manually compensate for unwanted changes that follow.


This is also where flying small, cheap & easy to build rocket can help quickly test a theory, while helping you learn the building skills needed to build larger rockets successfully.
 
tsmith1315 said:
And how can you be certain? Have you seen an analysis? Are the components that influence both forces linear, or if exponential, both of the same order?

After burnout, when the rocket is coasting, will a rocket with higher or lower mass coast farther- holding all other things equal?

These are questions your teacher may be able to help you resolve, as well. Especially if you have the background theory and math to show him/her.

Sims can really help out in understanding and in bringing out questions to research. Save two or three copies of your rocket with different names. Change one thing on one sim and see what happens. Then try something else. Be sure to only change one thing, and you may have to manually compensate for unwanted changes that follow.


This is also where flying small, cheap & easy to build rocket can help quickly test a theory, while helping you learn the building skills needed to build larger rockets successfully.
Click to expand...
Sure I will do the simulations when I have time. Thanks
 
Just my opinion:
I think it would be best for OP---in terms of actual learning---if we all waited before posting any additional help.*** I suggest that OP post the following at a minimum:
  • Photo of the finished kit (need not be painted but construction should be complete).
  • Description of issues, if any, that arose during construction.
  • Description of results of the flight of the kit; a few side-view and nozzle-end photos post-flight would be nice.
Considering all the information that has been provided already, I don't think this is too much to ask. I built my first kit at age 10, with no outside help; my first scratch-built rocket was at age 12. It shouldn't be terribly hard for a high-school or college-age student to complete a kit and describe the results.

Best,
Terry

***As a retired prof, I've always liked this quote: "If I tell you, you will not know, you will only have been told. Someday...I will ask you...and you will answer. Then you will know."
 
prfesser said:
I suggest that OP post the following at a minimum:
  • Photo of the finished kit (need not be painted but construction should be complete).
  • Description of issues, if any, that arose during construction.
  • Description of results of the flight of the kit; a few side-view and nozzle-end photos post-flight would be nice
Click to expand...

Good advice.
 
prfesser said:
Just my opinion:
I think it would be best for OP---in terms of actual learning---if we all waited before posting any additional help.*** I suggest that OP post the following at a minimum:
  • Photo of the finished kit (need not be painted but construction should be complete).
  • Description of issues, if any, that arose during construction.
  • Description of results of the flight of the kit; a few side-view and nozzle-end photos post-flight would be nice.
Considering all the information that has been provided already, I don't think this is too much to ask. I built my first kit at age 10, with no outside help; my first scratch-built rocket was at age 12. It shouldn't be terribly hard for a high-school or college-age student to complete a kit and describe the results.

Best,
Terry

***As a retired prof, I've always liked this quote: "If I tell you, you will not know, you will only have been told. Someday...I will ask you...and you will answer. Then you will know."
Click to expand...
My teacher has yet to order the kit. When it arrives I will surely assemble it and send the pics. Thanks for support
 
Hello guys,

Do you guys have an idea of a GPS tracker on amazon possibly that works well and can fit into a BT-60 body tube and is relatively cheap?

Thanks
 
Ayush Chauhan said:
Hello guys,

Do you guys have an idea of a GPS tracker on amazon possibly that works well and can fit into a BT-60 body tube and is relatively cheap?

Thanks
Click to expand...
From Amazon? likely not.

but the are a few that will fit (with modifications) to your rocket. You will likely need to build a payload bay for your rocket, or install it in the nosecone. You also need to realize that this will have an effect on your flight profile. You will be adding "stuff" and you may make the rocket unflyable with the additional weight..

Have you done a search for "GPS" on the forums?

The most common & cheapest is likely the 'build it yourself' kit from Eggtimer. Or the ever popular 'featherweight' unit for something built & tested..

http://eggtimerrocketry.com/home/eggfinder-gps-tracking-system/
https://www.featherweightaltimeters.com/featherweight-gps-tracker.html
 
Ayush Chauhan said:
Thanks for the recommendations, but why are the GPS trackers from amazon not reliable?
Click to expand...
they tend to be large & heavy, and mainly meant for either people or dogs..

when I do a search in Amazon for "GPS" I get links to the Garmin & TomTom dashboard GPS units for your car, for driving. Or the hand held units. Both of these will tell you where you are on the planet, not where something is..

A GPS locator for a rocket has 2 pars: the transmitter (in the rocket) and the receiver (in your hand). So, the 2 will talk to each other, and they each know where the other is..
 
dr wogz said:
A GPS locator for a rocket has 2 pars: the transmitter (in the rocket) and the receiver (in your hand). So, the 2 will talk to each other, and they each know where the other is..
Click to expand...
Oh! then can we not just buy a transmitter online and a reciver and make our own for cheaper?
 
Just for full transparency; I’ve engaged the OP in a private discussion and we’re having a good back-and-forth. Basically I’ve been attempting to drive home the need to adhere to the KISS principle while also providing honest answers on basic and intermediate-level questions. Advanced ones (beyond my knowledge, specifically) I’ve been directing to the forum or to other resources.

We talked about GPS and whatnot, but what it really comes down to is the fundamentals: flying with the right airframe design, field, conditions, and motor, so I’ve been trying to emphasize that whenever I can. It helps that those are my strengths.
 
Yikes. What a train wreck of a thread. Just buy an Alpha 3 starter set and see if you and your professor can figure it out.
 
@Ayush Chauhan Real, physical, tangible experience will go a long way to helping you I think. Any luck finding local flyers and attending a launch?
 
Ayush Chauhan said:
YES! I have found some local flyers and I will be attending their launch on 12th feb.
Click to expand...
Perfect. You’ll learn more from attending your first launch and seeing what other people are doing than you will from several weeks browsing a forum.

Visit a few people’s camps, explain that you’re a first-timer, and ask if you can hang around with them for a while. Almost every time I’m at the range I find newcomers attaching themselves to me and they invariably benefit.
 
smstachwick said:
Perfect. You’ll learn more from attending your first launch and seeing what other people are doing than you will from several weeks browsing a forum.

Visit a few people’s camps, explain that you’re a first-timer, and ask if you can hang around with them for a while. Almost every time I’m at the range I find newcomers attaching themselves to me and they invariably benefit.
Click to expand...
Yes! I will definitely do that
 
I'm late to the party, so please forgive me if some of this has already been covered. Actually, I know that some of it has, and some of that bears repeating.

smstachwick said:
Fins on midsized and larger rockets often swap out balsa for plywood.
Click to expand...
Plywood here means material made from very thin layers of birch, not construction plywood.

techrat said:
What kind of school project has kids building their very first rocket with a "G" motor? I've been building rockets for over 9 months and have only flown one "F" so far. Building a rocket to survive a "G" takes a bit more building acumen than building one for a C6-5. It's going to need TTW Plywood fins. Are there even one-use disposable G motors, or is this first-timer expected to assemble the G motor in the expensive Aluminum tube?
Click to expand...
I agree it's rather overly ambitious for a first project. But I will say that it doesn't necessarily need TTW plywood fins. I'd be worried about balsa, but there's no reason this couldn't be done with surface mounted basswood. (Plywood might be a good idea.)

Ayush Chauhan said:
Our teacher does not know a lot, he said just figure stuff out your self and I will support you with the stuff you need to make the rocket.
Click to expand...
Well, in the process of figuring it out for yourself, you've taken the first right step: finding people do know a lot and asking for help. Welcome to the forum.

Your early statements that "Paper is too thin for the body of a model rocket and balsa wood I have no idea how to make it into a 70-80cm long cylinder-like shape..." show that you've got a long way to go. Please don't think I'm trying to insult you, but it's clear that you don't really know anything about model rocketry, or you'd have known what was meant by using paper and balsa. Building even one low power kit will give you a whole lot of education really quick.

Regarding the LOC Graduator, while I don't know that kit myself, its very name is indicative: Count me among those saying that it would be better to build and fly at least one lower power kit so you have something to "graduate" from.

Ayush Chauhan said:
So single-use motors don't require a case? And after getting the motors out of the rocket I can replace put fresh new single-use motors again?
Click to expand...
They don't require a separate case. The propellant and other internal components are in a case and you buy the whole thing as a single piece. Strictly speaking, there's a case, but it's not reusable. And yes, you can just take it out, throw it away, and put in a fresh one. (But don't throw it away. The spent cases have a zillion uses as you're building the next rocket, and the next, and the one after that.)

Ayush Chauhan said:
If I use a cardboard body tube. Will it not just explode when the deployment charge goes off?
Click to expand...
Well, since that's what the rest of us have done literally millions of times for decades, I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. ;) The pressure inside the tube is limited by the fact that the nose cone (or upper portion of the body tube, depending on how it's designed) comes off. There will be only enough pressure inside to accomplish that, because thereafter all the gas of the ejection charge is vented.
Also just to confirm from my understanding of motors, the deployment charge is already built into the motor right?
Click to expand...
Yes.
If I have a body tube of approx. 1 meter in length and 10cm in diameter, the rocket motor is at one end of the rocket and my parachute is near the nose cone.
Click to expand...
Yes.
So is the deployment charge power enough so that it pushes the nose cone and the parachute off the body tube?
Click to expand...
That depends a little on the motor you choose, as the motors intended for bigger rockets tend to have bigger ejection charges. For all practical purposes, whatever motor you choose that gets you a good flight on that size rocket will have a big enough deployment charge for it.

Ayush Chauhan said:
Hello guys,
I was also wondering if you know how in real rocket launches we have stage separation where one rocket motor runs out of fuel and the other rocket motor ignites mid-flight. Is it possible for me to make a rocket with stage separation and multiple rocket motors at the beginning stage?
Click to expand...
Whoah there kiddo! Yes, there are multistage model rockets. Build and fly a few single stagers first, then go to more advanced stuff. There a hundred mistakes to be learned from, and the lessons are much more easily gleaned if you only make a couple of them at a time.

Voyager1 said:
Not for reloadable composite propellant motors. The ejection BP charge comes in a small vial to be added when assembling.
Click to expand...
@Vorager1: That's not always true. The smaller CTI reloads include an ejection charge, and I think the same is true for the AT motors. For CTI at least, the ejection charge is part of a delay/ejection module that goes into the case ahead of the propellant grains, and bob's your uncle.

Ayush: Ignore the paragraph above, it does not pertain to you (yet).

Did that seem condescending? If so, I'm sorry. It's really meant to be just the opposite.

Ayush Chauhan said:
Oh, so can I do it at a beginner's stage or should I get some experience first?
Click to expand...
Get Experience First. Get A Pretty Good Deal Of Experience First!

tsmith1315 said:
I wholeheartedly support the others who have suggested starting with a small kit, and working in several steps through larger kits before getting too deep in designing your own mid-power rocket.
Click to expand...
Also, I'm almost half way through the thread (sorry I started late) and I can't believe that no one has mentioned this yet: get a rocket design and simulation program. I recommend Open Rocket (https://openrocket.info/). It's free, it's pretty easy to use, and it will help you in ways you have not yet anticipated.

My ride is here, so I'll continue this later.
 
jqavins said:
I'm late to the party, so please forgive me if some of this has already been covered. Actually, I know that some of it has, and some of that bears repeating.


Plywood here means material made from very thin layers of birch, not construction plywood.


I agree it's rather overly ambitious for a first project. But I will say that it doesn't necessarily need TTW plywood fins. I'd be worried about balsa, but there's no reason this couldn't be done with surface mounted basswood. (Plywood might be a good idea.)


Well, in the process of figuring it out for yourself, you've taken the first right step: finding people do know a lot and asking for help. Welcome to the forum.

Your early statements that "Paper is too thin for the body of a model rocket and balsa wood I have no idea how to make it into a 70-80cm long cylinder-like shape..." show that you've got a long way to go. Please don't think I'm trying to insult you, but it's clear that you don't really know anything about model rocketry, or you'd have known what was meant by using paper and balsa. Building even one low power kit will give you a whole lot of education really quick.

Regarding the LOC Graduator, while I don't know that kit myself, its very name is indicative: Count me among those saying that it would be better to build and fly at least one lower power kit so you have something to "graduate" from.


They don't require a separate case. The propellant and other internal components are in a case and you buy the whole thing as a single piece. Strictly speaking, there's a case, but it's not reusable. And yes, you can just take it out, throw it away, and put in a fresh one. (But don't throw it away. The spent cases have a zillion uses as you're building the next rocket, and the next, and the one after that.)


Well, since that's what the rest of us have done literally millions of times for decades, I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. ;) The pressure inside the tube is limited by the fact that the nose cone (or upper portion of the body tube, depending on how it's designed) comes off. There will be only enough pressure inside to accomplish that, because thereafter all the gas of the ejection charge is vented.

Yes.

Yes.

That depends a little on the motor you choose, as the motors intended for bigger rockets tend to have bigger ejection charges. For all practical purposes, whatever motor you choose that gets you a good flight on that size rocket will have a big enough deployment charge for it.


Whoah there kiddo! Yes, there are multistage model rockets. Build and fly a few single stagers first, then go to more advanced stuff. There a hundred mistakes to be learned from, and the lessons are much more easily gleaned if you only make a couple of them at a time.


@Vorager1: That's not always true. The smaller CTI reloads include an ejection charge, and I think the same is true for the AT motors. For CTI at least, the ejection charge is part of a delay/ejection module that goes into the case ahead of the propellant grains, and bob's your uncle.

Ayush: Ignore the paragraph above, it does not pertain to you (yet).

Did that seem condescending? If so, I'm sorry. It's really meant to be just the opposite.


Get Experience First. Get A Pretty Good Deal Of Experience First!


Also, I'm almost half way through the thread (sorry I started late) and I can't believe that no one has mentioned this yet: get a rocket design and simulation program. I recommend Open Rocket (https://openrocket.info/). It's free, it's pretty easy to use, and it will help you in ways you have not yet anticipated.

My ride is here, so I'll continue this later.
Click to expand...
Good points.

@Ayush Chauhan and I have been working through OpenRocket extensively in a private chat, swapping files. A plausible design is taking shape.
 
jqavins said:
I'm late to the party, so please forgive me if some of this has already been covered. Actually, I know that some of it has, and some of that bears repeating.


Plywood here means material made from very thin layers of birch, not construction plywood.


I agree it's rather overly ambitious for a first project. But I will say that it doesn't necessarily need TTW plywood fins. I'd be worried about balsa, but there's no reason this couldn't be done with surface mounted basswood. (Plywood might be a good idea.)


Well, in the process of figuring it out for yourself, you've taken the first right step: finding people do know a lot and asking for help. Welcome to the forum.

Your early statements that "Paper is too thin for the body of a model rocket and balsa wood I have no idea how to make it into a 70-80cm long cylinder-like shape..." show that you've got a long way to go. Please don't think I'm trying to insult you, but it's clear that you don't really know anything about model rocketry, or you'd have known what was meant by using paper and balsa. Building even one low power kit will give you a whole lot of education really quick.

Regarding the LOC Graduator, while I don't know that kit myself, its very name is indicative: Count me among those saying that it would be better to build and fly at least one lower power kit so you have something to "graduate" from.


They don't require a separate case. The propellant and other internal components are in a case and you buy the whole thing as a single piece. Strictly speaking, there's a case, but it's not reusable. And yes, you can just take it out, throw it away, and put in a fresh one. (But don't throw it away. The spent cases have a zillion uses as you're building the next rocket, and the next, and the one after that.)


Well, since that's what the rest of us have done literally millions of times for decades, I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. ;) The pressure inside the tube is limited by the fact that the nose cone (or upper portion of the body tube, depending on how it's designed) comes off. There will be only enough pressure inside to accomplish that, because thereafter all the gas of the ejection charge is vented.

Yes.

Yes.

That depends a little on the motor you choose, as the motors intended for bigger rockets tend to have bigger ejection charges. For all practical purposes, whatever motor you choose that gets you a good flight on that size rocket will have a big enough deployment charge for it.


Whoah there kiddo! Yes, there are multistage model rockets. Build and fly a few single stagers first, then go to more advanced stuff. There a hundred mistakes to be learned from, and the lessons are much more easily gleaned if you only make a couple of them at a time.


@Vorager1: That's not always true. The smaller CTI reloads include an ejection charge, and I think the same is true for the AT motors. For CTI at least, the ejection charge is part of a delay/ejection module that goes into the case ahead of the propellant grains, and bob's your uncle.

Ayush: Ignore the paragraph above, it does not pertain to you (yet).

Did that seem condescending? If so, I'm sorry. It's really meant to be just the opposite.


Get Experience First. Get A Pretty Good Deal Of Experience First!


Also, I'm almost half way through the thread (sorry I started late) and I can't believe that no one has mentioned this yet: get a rocket design and simulation program. I recommend Open Rocket (https://openrocket.info/). It's free, it's pretty easy to use, and it will help you in ways you have not yet anticipated.

My ride is here, so I'll continue this later.
Click to expand...
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE INFORMATION!!!

I am starting with a low-power kit just to mention which is an E-class motor rocket kit recommended by people here in the UK. Link: click me!

We ordered this kit today, so it's just the waiting game now...

I will add an altimeter to this kit in the nose cone. To get and analyze data.
 

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