Need help with engine instillation on a Star Orbiter.

[rich56]

So I'm almost finished. Just about to install the engine retainers. I realize there is nothing to hold back the engine from blowing through the engine tube. No bulkhead, no firewall. Last part of the instructions say to put 4-6 layers of tape around the bottom of the engine. Is that it? I look through the parts list and instructions twice before posting this. What am I missing?

 

[Nytrunner]

So for blackpowder motors (estes), a tape wrap is the way to go. I like to put to wraps of 1/4" tape around the back end, then one wrap of 1/2" tape over that. It creates a bump that catches on the lip of the retainer/motor tube.

Composite motors (aerotech, cesaroni) have a built in thrust ring at the aft of the motor, so they're good to go

 

[Sluggo]

Nyt is correct. Here's a video to help you out.....
Advanced Construction Videos : Apogee Rockets, Model Rocketry Excitement Starts Here

 

[Scott_650]

So I'm almost finished. Just about to install the engine retainers. I realize there is nothing to hold back the engine from blowing through the engine tube. No bulkhead, no firewall. Last part of the instructions say to put 4-6 layers of tape around the bottom of the engine. Is that it? I look through the parts list and instructions twice before posting this. What am I missing?

Page 5 of the instructions explains how it’s done https://estesrockets.com/wp-content/uploads/Instructions/009716_STAR_ORBITER.pdf

 

[Arsenal78]

Estes could've just added a motor block to the kit and saved a bunch of headache. If they were trying to cut cost, that was the wrong place to do it. Poor execution by Estes suggesting a tape ring in this day and age.

 

[rich56]

Thank You. I did see that on page 5 and thought that would be just for centering the engine. I have no experience with E and F engines and didnt think that would be a secure way to mount engines. Thank You Gents
PS If the rocket survives it maiden flights, a used D engine will be used to make a engine block

 

[Arsenal78]

Thank You. I did see that on page 5 and thought that would be just for centering the engine. I have no experience with E and F engines and didnt think that would be a secure way to mount engines. Thank You Gents

If you're planning on just flying it on black powder E motors, just get a motor block for a 29mm tube and do it like you would any other Estes kit. Hell you can even cut one out of a spent 29mm motor.

 

[rich56]

If you're planning on just flying it on black powder E motors, just get a motor block for a 29mm tube and do it like you would any other Estes kit. Hell you can even cut one out of a spent E motor for a block
Piece of spent E motor is the plan

 

[Scott_650]

Estes could've just added a motor block to the kit and saved a bunch of headache. If they were trying to cut cost, that was the wrong place to do it. Poor execution by Estes suggesting a tape ring in this day and age.

The current PSII kits are intended to be flown on both 29mm (and adapted 24mm) Estes BP motors and APC motors from other manufacturers - folks have used some big power in Star Orbiters! I pretty much build anything of a decent size with 24mm motor mounts without a motor block in case I ever get around to buying 24mm reloadable cases. But you have a good point about including a motor block (and probably a spacer as well) with the SO - would’ve been a nice touch and cost them next to nothing.

 

[JLP1]

I've built several Star Orbiters and I've added a motor block to each one. You just have to be careful about placement. To far up and your retaining ring will not tighten against the bottom of the motor and the motor could be hard to remove after a flight. To far down and your ring won't tighten properly either. About 1/16" is all it takes for a secure fit and since the composite motors are shorter than the BP motors and have a ring molded in they will fit fine. Now if you intend to fly larger, longer motors that could be a whole different issue. Also when installing the ring don't use the yellow glue it will grab before you can make any adjustments. Use a slow glue like Bob Smith's 30 min epoxy. Also after you get your ring in place make sure you wipe away as much of the excessive epoxy as you can. The epoxy that's left in front of the ring will harden no problem but when you fly the motor heat will soften it and if you don't remove the spent motor right away it will cool and lock the case in place. Don't ask me how I know this but trust me it will be a b%*$h to remove.

 

[kuririn]

If you don't want to limit yourself on the length of 29mm motors you can fly then don't put in an engine block.
If you're positive that you will never fly anything longer than an Estes F motor then you can put one in.
That way you won't need to wrap a thin strip of tape on the end of BP motors every time you launch.
SOP nowadays is to leave the engine block out. Leaves your future options open.
Also make sure the ribs on the motor retainer cap do not interfere with the rear launch lug.
Otherwise you can sand the interfering rib(s) down.

No:


Yes:

 

[JLP1]

Very Good points Kuririn I forgot about those ribs

 

[Antares JS]

Estes could've just added a motor block to the kit and saved a bunch of headache. If they were trying to cut cost, that was the wrong place to do it. Poor execution by Estes suggesting a tape ring in this day and age.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with tape rings. I've never had one fail on me and Apogee also suggests using one in their brand new X-15 kit because the CG/CP is too precarious to risk the weight of a motor retainer at the back.

 

[Back_at_it]

When I built mine, I knew I wasn't going to be flying composites exclusively so I added a motor block and positioned it so I could fly the Estes E and F motors. Now, If I want to run something smaller, I grab the Estes 24/29 adapter and I'm ready to go. I can tell you that an E30-7 or F44- 8 is about as big as I will ever fly in that rocket so there's not need for additional length. Honestly, I feel that this should have been a 24mm rocket from the start and that is probably how I will build the next one.

 

[Scott_650]

When I built mine, I knew I wasn't going to be flying composites exclusively so I added a motor block and positioned it so I could fly the Estes E and F motors. Now, If I want to run something smaller, I grab the Estes 24/29 adapter and I'm ready to go. I can tell you that an E30-7 or F44- 8 is about as big as I will ever fly in that rocket so there's not need for additional length. Honestly, I feel that this should have been a 24mm rocket from the start and that is probably how I will build the next one.

The Hobby Lobby exclusive Vapor is pretty much a 24mm SO with surface mount fins and different graphics.

 

[JLP1]

I've flown mostly E16 and F15's and a couple of F20's with good results on all them except (1) F15 that cato'ed. They usually stay within the field, and within visual range.

Love this rocket

 

[kuririn]

It's always good to have options.

 

[neil_w]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with tape rings.

I've used them, they're definitely fine. However I consider them to be extra unneeded work prepping a rocket. If I were building an SO I would put in the engine block, and I do agree it would be good for Estes to include one in the kit for optional installation.

The Estes instructions trying to explain the optional engine block using only pictures would be something to see.

 

[heada]

The AT H13 would be an interesting choice. Make sure to include deployment electronics and a GPS tracker because it's going well past a mile high.

I used 6x F42 motors for each flight on my LOC Ultimate. I've glued the thrust band onto EcnoJet motors a lot in the past. I've also used the masking tape ring. I have an aluminum ring with grub screws too. All work and will let you use any length motor. I've built 2 SO and 1 Vapor. None of them have internal thrust blocks because I want the ability to use any motor. In my eyes, it's always better to have options rather than restrictions.

 

[jrap330]

Thank You. I did see that on page 5 and thought that would be just for centering the engine. I have no experience with E and F engines and didnt think that would be a secure way to mount engines. Thank You Gents
PS If the rocket survives it maiden flights, a used D engine will be used to make a engine block

If you have a spent, used engine cut a piece off , and glue it into motor mount used an engine as a tool to push it up into mount, of course out glue on it. You still need to friction fit the engine but you now have a Trust Ring

 

[jrap330]

Forget my post did not realize it is PSII kit designed for E and F engines