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"Navy Builds Ramjet Missile with Model Rocket Engines and a Credit Card"

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neil_w

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Very cool, although they might be a bit confused about the definition of "model rocket engine".
 

FredA

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Fincans by Max Q Aerospace (Binder Design)
 

cerving

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Big deal. ALL of us buy our "model rocket engines" with a credit card... :)
 

sl98

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I would be more impressed if they used an Eggfinder for tracking.
 

fyrwrxz

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It's just Mike-one of the few I know who can take a solid 5 lb block of metal and hand you a 14 oz mach ready fin can. Check them out at Binder Design
 

K'Tesh

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Nice Job Mike!!!
 

HHaase

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NOW it makes sense why he was selling Binder but keeping the fin can side of things.
Nicely done!

-Hans
 

Woody's Workshop

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Why would they publish this stuff.
Terrorists can read this stuff, get idea's and the next thing a know...
Double thumbs up for Binder Design for his involvement and success.
 

Bat-mite

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Why would they publish this stuff.
Terrorists can read this stuff, get idea's and the next thing a know...
Double thumbs up for Binder Design for his involvement and success.
They would only publish if it is unclassified, meaning they believe it poses no threat to national security. How they arrived at that decision is a different question.
 

cwbullet

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Great job US Navy and Binder. I hope they continue to use cheap off the shelf products. We can help them make it cheaper. I will offer to do some scale testing.
 

aerostadt

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I remember my solid rocket employer went out and bought 24 mm model rocket components for a much smaller project more than 7 years ago. It turned out that this was the practical thing to do. It was much cheaper to buy the model rocket components rather than design and a build a motor to test out flight performance concepts for small flares.
 

Bat-mite

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As for terrorists building one of these, they'd have to be Level 3 to buy the motor, so I think it's okay.

:roll:
 

samb

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Why would they publish this stuff.
Terrorists can read this stuff, get idea's and the next thing a know...
Double thumbs up for Binder Design for his involvement and success.
On the contrary, sounds like us taking a page from the bad guys IED development program. And some good old American, Kelly Johnson, git'er done skunkworks initiative.
 

georgegassaway

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Why would they publish this stuff.
Terrorists can read this stuff, get idea's and the next thing a know...
Terrorists have had their eyes on getting HPR motors since the at least the early 1990's, if not before....

Surprisingly enough the one known actual attempt to do so was by the IRA (Irish Republican Army), there was an arrest IIRC.

Anyway, an article mentioning buying a "$900 model rocket engine" or a fin can isn't something that would not already be on a terrorist idea list.

The really critical parts are the development of a Ramjet, and the guidance/control system. What I take from the article is that they were tasked with trying to develop a successful RAMJET engine for the intended size and range of the evenutal missile. So they were able ot focus a lot more of their hand-on efforts in designing and developing the ramjet. They did not need to develop a field-ready final missile design. So, they bought existing HPR engines and used either an existing fin can or morel likely had it custom-made by a supplier who could do so quickly and inexpensively. They got the ramjet to work, so now they can work on a final version which will be made in a more conventional fashion.

I have to say that more and more when it comes to terrorist possibly doing stuff with models, the "smarter plan" would be to use multicopters or "smart" R/C planes rather than Hobby Rockets. Easier and cheaper to do. Rockets would tend to be better for certain "airborne targeting", and some very specific kinds of ground targets where multicopters or smart planes would not be as suited for mission-unique reasons. Note I am not going to go into ANY details as to what those might be (and urge others not to speculate on any either), because yes indeed who really knows who might be reading this thread.

I just point out that when it comes to flying hobby models, possibly being used by terrorists, the allure of rockets as the primary means seems to have shifted now to far less likely due to the easier/cheaper (and potentially MUCH more effective) alternative of misused multicopters and R/C planes.

Having personally flown Quadcopters that can come back and land within 2 meters of where they took off from, really brought that home (so to speak....). And more recently using live FPV with a Quad and also with a R/C plane, to see straight ahead from onboard the model and use that view for piloting.

That does not mean we can be complacent about terrorists not wanting to try to use rockets. That will always exist. But it's not the only game in town for hobby models being misused by terrorists, and for the most part not the best game in town for "unwanted airborne delivery".
 
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Binder Design

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Where does it say they used a CTI motor or the Max-Q fin unit?
It doesn't. But I know who my customers are. I sent a lot of fin cans to China Lake that look exactly like the ones in that photo. And the Navy guy, Matt Walker they quoted for the article was the one who ordered them. :)
 

DavidMcCann

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Where does it say they used a CTI motor or the Max-Q fin unit?
if you can't look at that photo and see a CTI motor... well then just wow.

Just going out on a limb here, but this is an O3400.....



and the navy-
 
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Binder Design

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NOW it makes sense why he was selling Binder but keeping the fin can side of things.
Nicely done!

-Hans
We pulled it off the market and doubled down before the first of the year. That's when we decided to purchase Dog House Rocketry. Crazy busy around these parts.
 

JackC

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We pulled it off the market and doubled down before the first of the year. That's when we decided to purchase Dog House Rocketry. Crazy busy around these parts.
Mike, how difficult would it be to design and build a ramjet rocket in high power? Would it run afoul of any rules? Thanks!

Jack
 

boatgeek

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Why would they publish this stuff.
Terrorists can read this stuff, get idea's and the next thing a know...
Double thumbs up for Binder Design for his involvement and success.
As for terrorists building one of these, they'd have to be Level 3 to buy the motor, so I think it's okay.

:roll:
Not to mention that terrorists already know how to build unguided rockets (see Katushya and Qassam, for example). I would be shocked if designs for those and the relevant propellant formulas are not available to anyone with appropriate bona fides. The Qassam apparently uses sugar-KNO3 fuel, so Nakka may be more relevant than CTI.
 
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