NAR Craftsmanship & NAR Numbers

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zog139

Well-Known Member
What do other builders that fly NAR contest events think about applying your NAR number to your model. Per the pink book you are to display your NAR # on the exterior of the model.

9.4 NAR Number
Each entry shall carry, legibly displayed upon its exterior surface as the model rocket appears in flight readiness, the contestants name or NAR license number. In the case of a team entry, the entry shall carry the team name or number

Usually on a larger model I will display the NAR number on a launch lug or on the rear centering ring. One NARAM I went to the judges took points away for "NAR Number" I didn't inquire because I wasn't in the running. Do most people agree as long as you apply the number neatly then you can pretty much put it anywhere on the exterior of the model ? With peanut sport scale this NARAM it will make for some interesting results.

jflis

Well-Known Member
Two that I have seen, though I have no idea of how they were received by the judges, were both scale entries.

one had the NAR number in binary using rivets along the skin. I thought that was great but wondered if the judges would agree...

Another (I only saw pix of this and the story) was someone who had worked with sounding rockets and also competed. He wanted to do a scale entry and decided to do one of the sounding rockets that he worked on as he had (needless to say) outstanding scale data packet material...

To make it even better, he selected a particular round he was going to scale and it was one that was going to be launched soon. Before its flight he went out and spray painted his NAR number on the side of the rocket then took a picture of it to add to the scale data packet... He then reproduced that spray painted NAR number with his air brush on the model.

dwmzmm

Well-Known Member
For my Maxi-Brute STAR WARS X-Wing, I put my Team's number on one of the
exhaust pod, to make it look like it's a real ID for the X-Wing (model was entered for the Science Fiction/Future Scale event at a Regional meet nearly
four years ago).....

Below in the pic you can see my team number (T - 040)

Microspeed

Well-Known Member
Another (I only saw pix of this and the story) was someone who had worked with sounding rockets and also competed. He wanted to do a scale entry and decided to do one of the sounding rockets that he worked on as he had (needless to say) outstanding scale data packet material...

To make it even better, he selected a particular round he was going to scale and it was one that was going to be launched soon. Before its flight he went out and spray painted his NAR number on the side of the rocket then took a picture of it to add to the scale data packet... He then reproduced that spray painted NAR number with his air brush on the model.

Could this be Peter Alway himself? I remembered hearing something about this, and according to his website, from this ( http://www.rocketryonline.com/jimball/alway/photoroc.htm ) page:

"This is Dr. Mark Vincent. he was a grad student on the JASPR sounding rocket payload in the late 1990's. He was kind enough to stick my NAR number (NAR 26985) on the Black Brant IX that launched the payload. Here he is with my model, with the accurate, scale NAR numbers, back in 1998. He's at the South Pole now."

gpoehlein

Well-Known Member
I've only done a couple of scale competitions in regionals so far, so I have no experience with NARAM. However, for the first I built a SCUD B and used my NAR number (in Cyrillic characters) for the serial number. Last year I build a Tartar missile. It was BT-5 sized and MMX powered. Since the Tartar has a boat-tail, I made that removable so I could put in and take out the motor easily, and I printed my NAR number on the centering ring holding the motor tube in place. Although very small, it is visible even with the boat tail in place by looking up the aft of the rocket. I'm building another one this year for Peanut Sport Scale and I'll use the same technique.

jflis

Well-Known Member
Could this be Peter Alway himself? I remembered hearing something about this, and according to his website, from this ( http://www.rocketryonline.com/jimball/alway/photoroc.htm ) page:

"This is Dr. Mark Vincent. he was a grad student on the JASPR sounding rocket payload in the late 1990's. He was kind enough to stick my NAR number (NAR 26985) on the Black Brant IX that launched the payload. Here he is with my model, with the accurate, scale NAR numbers, back in 1998. He's at the South Pole now."
I don't think it was, but it certainly could have been. That looks like the right rocket

powderburner

Well-Known Member
He's at the South Pole now."
THAT should teach him not to desecrate NASA property by spraying graffiti onto sounding rockets.

Seriously, I have always been puzzled why there isn't a more specific method called out for adding these external NAR # markings, or at least a clear instruction to the judges for not counting off any points for this. I was bit by this one several times (in my younger years) and always suspected this was simply some biased judges trying to "help" their friends by clobbering everyone else at any opportunity.

How hard would it be to ***require*** that the NAR # (or other ident) be printed in 1/4 inch high lettering (or some similar unambiguous instructn) and placed at the bottom edge of the body tube or fin? That's it, done, no points off, easy to find and verify, no need to cleverly "hide" the NAR #, no problem. Simple is good.

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digitalastro

Well-Known Member
I am pleased to report that Dr. Mark Vincent is now in Davis, California. His time at the South Pole was short.

Now here's *my* dilemma, I worked on the optics for the spectrograph that rode up on that rocket. I plan to model that same rocket. Its been in my build pile for some time. To properly model that rocket, I will have to put Peter's NAR number on it! I guess I will have to hide mine somewhere else. The number was on a sticker, it wasn't spray painted on like graffiti. But, there is some writing in sharpie marker "Here ya go, Pete!"

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
Jim:
For a long time now i've been applying my NAR numbers as sort of a Tail number on a fin, Launch lug or somewhere they sort of looks like they belong.
As it's only judged for craftmanship, placement really doesn't bother me as much anymore. Since it doesn't have to have the letters "NAR", I just use the numbers. Heres the only photo I have showing one but it's on the vertical tail white rudder on my BT-80 Bomarc.
I printed a sheet of NAR numbers in sizes ranging for about 1pt to 24pt in both black and white. I just choose one that seems to fit the model scale.

Course if I forget to put on the decals, I'm scrambling to find a place to stick it on a rear centering ring with a magic marker LOL!!!!!

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Delta-IV

Well-Known Member
...snip.....

To make it even better, he selected a particular round he was going to scale and it was one that was going to be launched soon. Before its flight he went out and spray painted his NAR number on the side of the rocket then took a picture of it to add to the scale data packet... He then reproduced that spray painted NAR number with his air brush on the model.

These days, you can get fired doing something like that. A few years ago on a missile program, one of our techs was appllying some RTV over the fasteners on the outside of the rocket and acidently used too much pinkish primer. The primer was running down the side of the rocket and he used a wipe and made a "smiley" . When the close out photos made thier may to a senior manager we had to write a Non-conformance to the drawing (for the pink ) and had to do Corrective Action Board investigation...needless to say the tech received 3 days on the beach...for his unauthorized artwork.

jflis

Well-Known Member
These days, you can get fired doing something like that. A few years ago on a missile program, one of our techs was appllying some RTV over the fasteners on the outside of the rocket and acidently used too much pinkish primer. The primer was running down the side of the rocket and he used a wipe and made a "smiley" . When the close out photos made thier may to a senior manager we had to write a Non-conformance to the drawing (for the pink ) and had to do Corrective Action Board investigation...needless to say the tech received 3 days on the beach...for his unauthorized artwork.
Oh, poo.

powderburner

Well-Known Member
THAT should teach him not to desecrate NASA property by spraying graffiti onto sounding rockets.
I may have posted this in jest, but in our current world, manufacturers take a dim view of workers adding ANY sort of silly or personal marks. I work at a place that builds $100M airplanes. Not quite the price range of a deep space probe, perhaps, but you can still get fired for penciling your initials on "your" part. Gus Well-Known Member Usually on a larger model I will display the NAR number on a launch lug or on the rear centering ring. Jim, I usually use the rear centering ring and was quite surprised to read you'd been dinged for that. In reading the thread on CROC I was amazed at the variety of interpretations by folks who routinely judge these events. How hard would it be to ***require*** that the NAR # (or other ident) be printed in 1/4 inch high lettering (or some similar unambiguous instructn) and placed at the bottom edge of the body tube or fin? That's it, done, no points off, easy to find and verify, no need to cleverly "hide" the NAR #, no problem. Simple is good. Powderburner, I agree. Getting burned by this kind of nonsense is what discourages reasonable people from competing. Scale competition should be about the quality of what is built instead of mastery of arcane, ambiguous, and often unwritten, "rules". Peartree Cyborg Rocketeer Staff member Administrator Global Mod I built and flew a MMX Bullpup for a scale contest last year. I reduced my NAR number to the size of the serial number and placed it on the forward steering fins. It was, of course, very tiny printing but still legible with some effort. The judges didn't want to 'ding' me (they said they weren't sure whether I had included my number or not since I was a noob and they didn't want to look for it) so they wrote my NAR number on the BT with a sharpie. It was a nice gesture on their part but I still haven't gotten the marker off and will probably have to sand it and repaint that part. I may have posted this in jest, but in our current world, manufacturers take a dim view of workers adding ANY sort of silly or personal marks. I work at a place that builds$100M airplanes. Not quite the price range of a deep space probe, perhaps, but you can still get fired for penciling your initials on "your" part.
So now pride of workmanship is against the rules. Explains a lot doesn't it?

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
Perhaps Instead of requiring a specific Place and/or size NAR number on the model.
We should be including the location of our "required" NAR number in the NOTES TO THE JUDGES sheet in our data packages.
I believe thats what I'm going to do, from now on just to prevent just such defacing as Peartree just mentioned.

It won't however always prevent good intentioned helpers from adding things like launch lugs to scale models that already have them built into other features on the model, Like the LOC's overflow line on the Mercury-Atlas...LOL! You and Paul will never out live that one Jim!!! Note my nar number is one the clear plastic ring at the top of the twistloc fin unit in this photo.

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zog139

Well-Known Member
What are you tallking about John ? Must have me confused with someone else

BTW Steve, when I was "dinged" for nar number I had neatly used dry transfer numbers on the launch lug and got points taken off ? I used the back centering ring trick on my 1/70th Sat 1B last year and no mention or search had to be done.

With peanut scale this year, I plan on flying out of a tower ( so no lug ) and no room on the back ring either. I am leaning towrds the bottom edge of a fin so it is not quite so visible yet clearly on the exterior.