My very first build thread.

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Zaphod

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This thread is about my Hornet build.

"Hang on a second," says the collective consciousness of the board, "Did the new guy just say he's doing a build thread on the Estes Hornet? That level 1 thing with the too-big fins?"

Yes, that one. I hadn't intended on doing anything special with it, but then one of the fins popped a root-edge corner when I was cutting it out, and after several minutes of profuse swearing and throwing of objects, I saw the silver lining. I decided to convert the bottom 4mm of the fins into tabs. This would allow me to trim away the broken area, teach me how to cut tubing, and strengthen the rocket considerably. I also went somewhat insane for a second and decided to upgrade to a 24mm motor mount. I put it all into open rocket to make sure it would work, and it will, even with the bigger engines. A C11 sim comes out at 160 yds, D12 at 285, so not as obscene as I initially thought. And I can always get an adapter to run 18mm engines anyway.

I even thought for a while at the beginning (having been inspired by qquake2k's excellent Vagabond build thread) that I would convert it to a zipperless design. Not because it needs it, but just because. That was a silly idea that I abandoned almost immediately, but not quickly enough to avoid coping out a baffle plate and sanding it to fit, only to have it snap in half as I tried to bend over the thread of the eye hook.

Picture 342.jpg

But he thing that really convinced me to give up on that design though, was the tube coupler. The kit doesn't come with one, but I have some Estes couplers in my stash, except after finding the only one that fit, and sanding and polishing it intermittently for two days, I managed to take it from "I don't think we need any glue here" all the way to "Zarq, is that ever tight!" I just couldn't see it working and the design wasn't important enough for me to go out and find a coupler that would work, or take the time treating the one I had. I recently picked up the D-Region Tomahawk, and that's tailor made for a zipperless conversion, so I'll wait.

Step one: Trim the fins to make the tabs. In the mod design, I positioned the tabs between the two motor mount spacers. This led to them being offset favoring the leading edge. I made the tabs 30mm long and 4mm deep, which should take them right down to the MM tube. I marked the cut lines carefully using an adjustable square, and went to it with an xacto knife. Once I had the first fin cut, and the cuts sanded flat, I used it as a template to mark the other fins, cut each, and then match sanded them. I was pretty happy with the result.

Picture 344.jpg

Next I needed to mark the airframe and cut the fin slots. After using the tube guide to mark the center lines, I needed to know how far up the airframe I would need to start. The instructions say to mount the fins 1/2" from the bottom of the tube, so I measured the notch at the trailing edge of the fin and added the two - 1 3/16? How about we call that 30mm instead? Interesting coincidence that the tabs are also 30mm long. Then I checked the fin width -3mm or 1/8". So I carefully measured 1/16" to either side of the center line, and used my Estes tube marker to draw out the lines. Now I needed two rings to mark the upper and lower tab boundaries - one 30mm from the end, and another 30mm up from the first. I used the strip-of-paper method (make sure you use the factory edge!) and enhanced the visibility by running over the edge with a black marker before wrapping it. In the following picture you can see the guide paper around the airframe, as well as the original fins with the offending corner that prompted all of this nonsense.

Picture 336.jpg

And the tube with all the marker lines drawn - ready to go under the knife!

Picture 346.jpg
 
Cutting the slots was an interesting and educational experience. I used the Estes tube marker as a knife guide. I remember seeing a post here about using a drawer edge, which would probably have been easier to manage, but the only drawer I could find with a wide enough lip had a painted front, which made the edge something less than perfectly straight. Things I learned:

  • Draw your lines first, then cut over them.
  • Go slowly - score lightly over the line mark, make sure you're happy, then continue scoring lightly until you break through,
  • At all costs, resist the urge to speed up as you get more comfortable! I got cocky, and just caught myself after careening a cm-long gash into the sidewall of the airframe. Thankfully, while long, it wasn't too far out from the slot, so I was able to fix it with a smear of glue between my fingers and then gently putting it back in place with tweezers. It probably wouldn't have shown after the fillets, but why take chances?

Here's the first cut, open and with fin test-fitted. It fits perfectly!

Picture 347.jpg Picture 348.jpg

Then I cut the rest of the slots, and test-fitted all four fins. Looks good to me. Alignment is right on the mark.

Picture 358.jpg

Next I need to finish sanding and shaping...
 
if you have managed to slot the tube...and avoided slotting yourself, then you are doing well. tis looking good so far.
rex
 
Agreed - very nice work so far, keep it up! I may suggest this thread to my stepfather. (I bought him a hornet back in May that he has yet to start. I'm trying to get him into the hobby.)

(BTW: love the forum name and avatar - I once (and sometimes still) used the avatar "Hooloovoo")
 
I love the way you are making it your own. Nice mods.
 
(BTW: love the forum name and avatar - I once (and sometimes still) used the avatar "Hooloovoo")

I've often wondered exactly what shade of blue a Hooloovoo is, and how much deviation from that shade is possible before no intelligence is left and it's just a plain old shade of blue.

Well, maybe not often, but at least when I read that bit. I think Adams put it in there just so he could say "Hooloovoo Blue."

I forgot to mention that I had the engine mount in the airframe when I was cutting the slots. Not glued in, just in place to lend some support while I was cutting. Then I decided to mount it, and it froze. And again, I remember reading a post here where someone said you should always use epoxy for the engine mount, because wood glue can freeze, and of course I thought "That won't happen to ME." Not only did it freeze, but I inflicted minor damage trying to unfreeze it.

Hornet 001.jpg

So I decided to give it the nozzle-ish Fusion X-25 treatment:

Hornet 002.jpg Hornet 003.jpg

I had the spacer ring in there to support the opening while I worked. It turned out better than I expected - a bit of a glue-y mess, but once I paint it machine grey and drybrush with silver and black it'll look fine.

Got one more fin sanded too. Not really loving the sanding and sealing and sanding right now.
 
Nice effect!--I got a sneaky hunch this is going to be one of those Knock your eyes out builds!
 
Not much done in the last few days. I finally got the fins and nosecone sanded and sealed with a coat of Weldbond. Should be ready to paint in a day or two. I'm thinking it'll be easier to paint the two black fins before I glue them in. With the slots, they'll require almost no support from fillets, so I only need to put down small ones to round off that right angle for aerodynamic effect.
 
Wow, nice save on the engine mount! I think you have a natural talent for these things-- I certainly would't have thought of that. A lot of Estes designs are overstable, but even so, you might want to add a little nose weight. Check in OR and you should be fine.
 
Wow, nice save on the engine mount! I think you have a natural talent for these things-- I certainly would't have thought of that. A lot of Estes designs are overstable, but even so, you might want to add a little nose weight. Check in OR and you should be fine.

Yeah, this design is pretty stable. And notching the fins pushes the CG even further forward, so I'm not worried about the additional tail weight. If anything, I'd call it a wash between that and the tab notches. Even still, I chose a big, fat, 5 gram eye hook to add a bit of nose weight to offset the heavier motors I'll be using. I attached the OR file. I made sure to use actual weights, which is why some of the component materials might seem a bit strange.

View attachment hornet mod 24mm.ork

I haven't got much more done on the Hornet. I've been busy giving my Vagabond that well-deserved paint job. I'm not a big fan of bright colors, so I modified the paint scheme slightly. I'm very happy with the results.

vagabond2.jpg

Sorry for the minor hijack, but if you can't hijack your own thread...

Anyway, got the Hornet tube and nosecone sealed, and another coat on the fins, so they're also ready for paint. Sanding, then primer coming in the next few days. It's been hard to find build time lately.

hornet build2.jpg

Thanks for the comments so far, folks. I gotta say, this is easily the most welcoming and supportive community I've been a part of for quite some time.
 
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Very neat paint scheme on the vagabond. :clap: What paint did you use for the upper part? It looks sort of metallic, or is it just shiny? As far as bright colors, I think our opinions differ slightly. ;)
D5-4 Rocket liftoff cropped.jpg (I just love Rustoleum Sunrise Red!
Don't get discouraged by all the sanding. If you just keep going until you HATE EVERYTHING :hot:, it's going to look great! :p

I definitely agree with you on TRF being a supportive community. When I first joined, I was surprised by how much more welcoming it was than other forums. TRF is now the only forum I frequent.
 
Very neat paint scheme on the vagabond. :clap: What paint did you use for the upper part? It looks sort of metallic, or is it just shiny?

That's primer, then one coat of Rustoleum gloss white covered with two coats of Testors White Lightning One Coat Lacquer, which gives it that metallic pearl effect. The bottom is the same but in Mythical Maroon with a fire engine red basecoat. I haven't put on the clear coat yet - that will bring up the pearl even more. I did the same on my Space Eagle and it's really, really pretty, but I think I need to look for less expensive alternatives. That's $8+ of paint on one rocket.
 
That's primer, then one coat of Rustoleum gloss white covered with two coats of Testors White Lightning One Coat Lacquer, which gives it that metallic pearl effect.

Now you have to fly it on composite motors! :grin:
 
For the last two weeks, I've been swamped at work, and I've had maybe a half-hour a night to build, so I've been trying to get this thing painted. Except this fin:

hornet fin.jpg

THIS #$@#!%ING FIN

hornet fin2.jpg

has resisted any and all attempts to be coated in a lovely, smooth, glossy finish. From orange peel to overspray to 'wtf just happened?' it's been an excercise in utter futility and frustration. Everything else came out beautifully, even the other black fin, but this one refuses to cooperate. I'm going to give it another shot tomorrow after I pick up more paint. Believe it or not, I've emptied a 2/3-full can of gloss black on this Hornet. Most of it on this one fin. Aaaarrrrrgh! /shakefist

In the meantime, I'm starting my D-Region Tomahawk build thread in MPR.
 
Looks good so far. Remember to sand the paint off of the points where your glue will contact the fin. If you glue the fins on as-is, all that will be holding your rocket together is paint!

Alex
 
Looks good so far. Remember to sand the paint off of the points where your glue will contact the fin. If you glue the fins on as-is, all that will be holding your rocket together is paint!

Alex

Yeah, I masked the fin tabs, so I should be fine there. Here's an incredibly blurry shot of the other black fin with the tape removed - you get the idea. I'll still sand off the bits that will be touching the body tube, of course.

hornet fin3.jpg
 
Believe it or not, I've emptied a 2/3-full can of gloss black on this Hornet. Most of it on this one fin. Aaaarrrrrgh! /shakefist

Maybe you used up the good part of the can? Or bad humidity or something ... I know I finished off the end of 3 different cans, all used by a friend who wasn't shaking them as long as in the instructions, one hot day and had to sand most of it back off. New paint, better day and less frustrated technique and it went much better.
 
Wow. What a mess. I don't think I've ever had this much trouble painting anything. I finally gave up on the Rustoleum, sanded both fins back down as far as my patience would allow, reprimed, and then did a top coat with some gloss black appliance epoxy. This covered beautifully, but there's a dark side, as I discovered later. I let the fins dry overnight, and they looked OK. Not great, just OK. A few peaks here and there, but pretty smooth overall. Time to put them on, I thought, and I started to remove the tape around the fins, only to leave a huge thumb imprint on one of them.

*frustration*

Apparently appliance epoxy takes some time to completely cure, and the underlayer stays quite soft and pliable in the meantime.

So I gave them another day to dry because after I got through the top layer it was still gummy, and clogging the sandpaper badly. Once they were sanded, I reprimed for what seemed like the ninth time, and then repainted the following day. I've been very busy at work lately, so both fins got three days to dry. This time, when I removed the tape, there were no thumbprints. So far so good, but then I tried to slot them into the airframe, and once again, my thumb was my downfall. NOOOOO! Because now they're glued in, so there's no going back without making a huge mess. And to be honest, by this time, I'd had enough, so in they stayed.

Here's the worst of it:

hornet final 005a.jpg

That's about as pretty as Courney Love after an eight-day speedball binge, but overall, everything turned out pretty well.

hornet final 003a.jpg hornet final 007a.jpg

It looks pretty good from a distance, but up close, not so much. I may still sand down those fins again and repaint befoe I clearcoat, now that I don't need to manhandle them any longer. It's heavy though. I'm guessing there's at least 1/16" thickness of paint on those black fins. Those and the mods, brought the weight up from Estes advertised 2.3 oz to 3.05 without engine.

All in all though, I have no complaints. I made mistakes and learned a lot on a $12 rocket, and even after all of that, it's not a complete disaster. I'll see how it flies tomorrow or Saturday.
 
I would'nt worry about the black fin problem ---let it set a week or so and moist sand it down smooth --a puff of new black paint and your good to go-----by the way---I' told you it would knock your eyeballs out!!!---WELL DONE !!----H-----------------appliance paint is a true -pita--for our purposes--just stay away from it unless you have a year to waist or a heated paint booth--or both!!-------been there done that --ran away ,beaten and in tears----
 
-by the way---I' told you it would knock your eyeballs out!!!---WELL DONE !!

Well I don't know about my eyes, but I'm pretty sure I'm missing some hair. :) Much appreciated regardless. As I said, I learned a lot, and better on this than the SR-71 or Saturn V that are on deck.
 
Holy Zarquon! Love the way you worked with situations to come up with a great looking rocket.
 
Way to go, Zaphod, overcoming the motor mount issue. Well done! This is a rather timely build thread for me to read --my son wanted us to do an upscale of his Estes Hornet --I told him to take the measurements and do the math, and we would --he went and dilligently measured everything, wrote it all down, and said, "Um... how do I multiply fractions, Daddy?" (he's nine--they haven't covered this yet in school). I can't WAIT to get on that one!
 
Good luck with that upscale Coop. And good on your son for tackling something like that at 9... Wow! My son is six, so we're still on the E2X stuff.

I never really thought about it, but an upscale Hornet would be a fun build. I have a bunch of kits to get through before I think about anything like that, but that'd probably be a good choice for my first upscale. Clean and simple.
 
Looks pretty good to me! :) What's next in the pile?
As for how it looks, don't worry about that; let's just say all my rockets look best from the flight line. ;)
 
What's next in the pile?

I'm about half finished an SR-71 with nacelle engine mods, and a zipperless D-Region Tomahawk. I started a build thread for the Tomahawk in MPR which I haven't had time to update but will in the next few days, and I've been documenting the SR-71 build but haven't posted anything on it yet. I still need to order the waterslide decals from Excelsior so that's a few weeks away from being done.

After that: Alien Invader, Interceptor-E, a Fusion X-25 which my son insisted I order to replace one that disappeared into the clouds, and the Estes Saturn V that I bought myself for my birthday, which is standing in its box, behind my completed rockets, mocking me.

I also need to replace my Vagabond. After successfully completing a D12 flight in the same park where I lost it the first time, I was somehow convinced by an old friend who was visitng with his son for the day to send it up on an E9. It flew beautifully, and appeared to be coming right back to us, but when I got a good look at it I realized it was just parachute and nosecone. The shock cord failed, and the airframe came down on its own. Mercifully, over an industrial park on the Sunday of a long weekend, but still, lesson learned. I need to be very diligent about checking those things before launch.

So now I've lost an entire vagabond, but over two launches.
 
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