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My rocket is too dangerous. Where can I launch?

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wardini

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The club RSO said I cannot launch my rocket. It uses 3 metal screws to hold in the electronics bay. A clear violation of the NAR guidelines?!? Anyway, is there anywhere in the US I can launch?
 

rharshberger

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The club RSO said I cannot launch my rocket. It uses 3 metal screws to hold in the electronics bay. A clear violation of the NAR guidelines?!? Anyway, is there anywhere in the US I can launch?
There has to be more than that, please post pictures. RSOs wont usually deny a flight for 3 screws that are just holding in an AV bay.
 

K'Tesh

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1) Welcome to TRF!

2) It seems to me that it's pretty SOP for screws to be used for attaching AV bays, so was that the real reason it wasn't allowed? Is the screws the only reason it wasn't allowed to fly? Can we see an image of the rocket, or know more about it? If it was the screws, how big are they? And how small is the motor?
 

GregGleason

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If 3 metal screws is a NAR violation then Centuri and Estes constantly violated those rules with metal screw eyes in the balsa nose cones.

What size are the screws? 2-56, 4-40? If they are small, it would be surprising since I doubt the screws would comprise anything but a tiny fraction of the mass of the rocket. Perhaps there was something else the RSO saw.

Is your rocket a kit or scratch built?
How much does your rocket weigh?
What motor(s) were you planning on using?
Can you provide pics?

Greg
 

CORZERO

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Your RSO is strictly enforcing NAR Code:

http://www.nar.org/safety-information/model-rocket-safety-code/

If you want to launch at a NAR sanctioned event, then you follow NAR rules.

Tripoli Safety Code is crafted around NFPA 1127. Although NFPA compliance is voluntary, Tripoli have adopted it as organizational safety code. Below is a breakdown of materials use as Tripoli deems acceptable based on NFPA 1127 guidelines:

http://www.tripoli.org/Portals/1/Documents/Safety Code/Metal in Rocket Construction v2.0.pdf

I believe Tripoli events allow NAR certified fliers to attend (and vice-versa) but I do not know about inter-organizational insurance. Maybe you'll have to sign a waiver or something, idk.
 

SaturnV

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It uses 3 metal screws to hold in the electronics bay.
These bolts are not even the engine. You can always replace them with something non-metallic. I already use a single tiny bolt that rests rope parachute. Once I fired engine bolts that supported the nozzle. Never bolts in the engine and nozzle too :)
 

RocketFeller

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An Estes retention hook has more steel in it than three small screws. NAR states that there may not be metal parts for the nose, body, and fins of the rocket, but does not specifically prohibit all metal parts. If this really was the only reason the RSO turned you down then that person isn't really qualified to be an RSO.
 

CORZERO

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NAR states that there may not be metal parts for the nose, body, and fins of the rocket
Without spending an hour on definitions, I'd love to hear what parts other than a nose, body, and fins you think a rocket has?
 

FredA

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What club is this?
Is, perhaps, the landowner insisting on no metal?
 

GregGleason

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Think about the original intent of the authors. Rocket kits had metal parts at the time (screw eye, motor hook) and I believe the rocket vendors (or at least Estes) had input on the NAR rules. Why would they write something into the rules that would be at odds with their business?

Body is another word for airframe. They didn't want steel or even aluminum airframes. IMHO t would have been easier to write "Any metal at all is prohibited" in the NAR rules if that was their intent. What is more, you couldn't fly dual deploy since there is metal in the wires.

My :2:

Greg
 

Onebadhawk

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There are many other parts to a rocket..
The av bay and nose cone are full of other items on my builds..

IMHO there is something very much more to this then was stated in the original post...

Until the op elaborates on the circumstances and on the rocket speculation won't get us anywhere..

Teddy
 

RocketFeller

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Without spending an hour on definitions, I'd love to hear what parts other than a nose, body, and fins you think a rocket has?
It could be read as the nose cone can't be metal, the body can't be metal, and the fins can't be metal. To answer your original question, there is recovery gear (metal quick-links/swivels) and there is avionics (metal screws and bit/pieces) just to name a couple.

My point was that many Estes kits (which seem to be universally accepted at NAR launches) have metal parts in the form of eye bolts and engine hooks.

Like many, I have a feeling that there is more to the story. Three reasonably sized screws in an avionics bay shouldn't constitute a "dangerous" rocket in itself.
 

MikeyDSlagle

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Without spending an hour on definitions, I'd love to hear what parts other than a nose, body, and fins you think a rocket has?
Centering rings, bulkheads/bulkplates, motor mount tube, motor retention, electronics sleds, eyebolts, launch lugs/guides...I may have missed a few.
 

K'Tesh

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Centering rings, bulkheads/bulkplates, motor mount tube, motor retention, electronics sleds, eyebolts, launch lugs/guides...I may have missed a few.
parachutes, shock cords, streamers, glide recovery hardware, decals, paint, glue, blood, sweat, tears...
 

samb

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...
Until the op elaborates on the circumstances and on the rocket speculation won't get us anywhere..

Teddy
I got a giggle out of this one Teddy. You're correct of course but this is TRF man ! This thread will go to 10 pages of speculation before the OP comes back with more info. :wink:
 

RocketFeller

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Sources? Definitions? Surely these things aren't left open to subjective interpretation?
From what I understand the NAR rules were written to echo FAR 101 which states "no substantial metal parts".

If external screws are against the intent of the NAR code then RSOs all over the country really are dropping the ball by allowing rail buttons.
 

cerving

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Your RSO is strictly enforcing NAR Code:

http://www.nar.org/safety-information/model-rocket-safety-code/

If you want to launch at a NAR sanctioned event, then you follow NAR rules.

Tripoli Safety Code is crafted around NFPA 1127. Although NFPA compliance is voluntary, Tripoli have adopted it as organizational safety code. Below is a breakdown of materials use as Tripoli deems acceptable based on NFPA 1127 guidelines:

http://www.tripoli.org/Portals/1/Documents/Safety Code/Metal in Rocket Construction v2.0.pdf

I believe Tripoli events allow NAR certified fliers to attend (and vice-versa) but I do not know about inter-organizational insurance. Maybe you'll have to sign a waiver or something, idk.
The NAR Safety Code prohibits metal in the "nose, body, and fins of my rocket". It does not prohibit screws or other hardware elsewhere... I have seen very few rockets without SOME metal in them somewhere. Guaranteed there is SOME other reason why he wouldn't let you launch... if he won't tell you why then maybe your best bet is to go elsewhere. What kind of electronics are you flying? That may be it... I've heard of some low power clubs that don't allow electronic deployment, unless it's backed up with motor ejection.
 
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CORZERO

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It could be read as the nose cone can't be metal, the body can't be metal, and the fins can't be metal. To answer your original question, there is recovery gear (metal quick-links/swivels) and there is avionics (metal screws and bit/pieces) just to name a couple.

My point was that many Estes kits (which seem to be universally accepted at NAR launches) have metal parts in the form of eye bolts and engine hooks.

Like many, I have a feeling that there is more to the story. Three reasonably sized screws in an avionics bay shouldn't constitute a "dangerous" rocket in itself.
Ah, definitions! Now we are getting somewhere. Unfortunately, rules don't care about what a person feels should or should not constitute "x". Again, NAR Code:

http://www.nar.org/safety-information/model-rocket-safety-code/

See line 1.

I suppose this means I can fill the "body" with brass knuckles and ninja stars, as these are not components of the body?

Is "body" defined somewhere or will this thread result as so many do in endless speculation?
 

CORZERO

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From what I understand the NAR rules were written to echo FAR 101 which states "no substantial metal parts".

If external screws are against the intent of the NAR code then RSOs all over the country really are dropping the ball by allowing rail buttons.
Form what you understand? Ok, will you please link to your source so that I may reference the information and make sure your understanding is correct?
 

jimzcatz

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"Materials.*I will use only lightweight, non-metal parts for the nose, body, and fins of my rocket." No interpretation needed. How simple can that be?
 

jimzcatz

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Form what you understand? Ok, will you please link to your source so that I may reference the information and make sure your understanding is correct?


Seriously? Source? The rules as written is the source. Why complicate something so simple?
 

RocketFeller

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Form what you understand? Ok, will you please link to your source so that I may reference the information and make sure your understanding is correct?
I think I will politely bow out of this debate.

One thing that I know from experience, having been to plenty of NAR launches over the past seventeen years, is that metal screws have always allowed.
 

tab28682

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The OPs first post is this? Smells like a troll to me.
 
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tab28682

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..........

One thing that I know from experience, having been to plenty of NAR launches over the past seventeen years, is that metal screws have always allowed.
Exactly. Not to mention lots of other stuff like motor hooks, motor cases, recovery hardware and the other items mentioned previously.
 
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