Quantcast

My Renegade

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

n3tjm

Papa Elf
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
205
Location
Penns Creek, PA
In preparation to the CMASS launch this weekend, I decided to build my Estes Renegade that has been hanging on my wall for years. Back when I bought the kit, I knew about its underpowered problems, so from the get-go I knew I wanted to make some changes.

Obviously the most radical changes are in the booster. I replace the 18mm motor mount with a 24mm mount, and added 13mm motor tubes to the side pods. Vent holes are drilled into the centering rings to increase staging reliably (especially with the C11-0). Each side pod houses a 12" parachute providing a smooth landing for the booster.

The Upperstage was built stock, with a few minor changes. I added a motor hook to the 18mm mount, upgraded the launch lugs to 3/16", added weight to the nose, and upgraded the parachute to 18."

Renegade.jpg


Booster_Features.jpg


Renegade_Recovery.jpg
 

hedgie6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
what size motors do you plan on having in the side pods? Have you made sure that they will not eject before staging?

I had one I tried to add a chute to in the booster, the stages got stuck together and that was the end of Renegade for me.
 

n3tjm

Papa Elf
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
205
Location
Penns Creek, PA
what size motors do you plan on having in the side pods? Have you made sure that they will not eject before staging?

I had one I tried to add a chute to in the booster, the stages got stuck together and that was the end of Renegade for me.
Booster will take either C11-0's or D12-0's in the center, and 13mm Motors in the side pods. The 13mm's are friction fitted. Will prob fly it on its first flight with A C11-0 and two A10-3T's in the booster, and B6-4 in the top.
 

Pantherjon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
7,347
Reaction score
1
I too was a tad concernec about the 13mm's popping out the chutes prior to staging..But, after looking at the burn times, it is close but doable..As long as the delay in the A10's is a real 3 seconds and not 0.3 seconds!:roll:

I would go with the D12's in the core, but with a 1.7 second burn time and the A10's 0.9 second burn time eats up quite a bit of 'fudge' room on the delays for the A10's..

Nice mods and hope the flight goes as planned! ;)
 

n3tjm

Papa Elf
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
205
Location
Penns Creek, PA
At the last CMASS launch, I got the chance to fly my Renegade for the first time. I loaded the booster with a C11-0 in the middle and dual A10-3T’s in the side pods. I chose to go with a B6-4 in the sustainer. Liftoff of the Renegade was perfect, but failed to stage. I think the vent holes need to be bigger, plus I forgot to add some scotch tape to the tube coupler on the booster to help hold it in place. Only the motor mount and the upper 3” or so of the Sustainer got destroyed, so I placed an order to fliskits to order a set of tube couplers and a new motor mount. At least from the first flight, I know that the amount of nose weight I chose to add was enough to keep the rocket stable. At least on that motor combination.

Renegade_Damage.jpg
 

Evo666

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
413
Reaction score
0
Sorry to hear about your accident. The rocket looks very good.
 

Silverfish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
45
Reaction score
0
I cant help but wondering, aren't the gasses from the booster motor supposed to create pressure between the tubes and thus separate them? Surely if you allow the gasses to escape by cutting vent holes they wont create any pressure between the tubes and the rocket wont stage....

Just a thought

Silverfish
 

n3tjm

Papa Elf
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
205
Location
Penns Creek, PA
I cant help but wondering, aren't the gasses from the booster motor supposed to create pressure between the tubes and thus separate them? Surely if you allow the gasses to escape by cutting vent holes they wont create any pressure between the tubes and the rocket wont stage....

Just a thought

Silverfish
No. You don't want the gas to separate the stages. The gas fills the volume faster than then burning chunks of propellant and will separate the stages before the chunks of propellant can reach the propellant in the second stage. Ignition of the second stage motor is what seperates the boosters. That will occur before the motor reaches full pressure.

If you using gap staging (motors not taped together) you want to do two things. Vent, and scotch tape around the tube coupler. Some motors like the C11-0 give off a lot of gas at staging, so they are prone to staging problems (which is why I think Estes discontinued them). I will enlarge my vent holes, and put more scotch tape on the tube coupler.
 

Silverfish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
45
Reaction score
0
No. You don't want the gas to separate the stages. The gas fills the volume faster than then burning chunks of propellant and will separate the stages before the chunks of propellant can reach the propellant in the second stage. Ignition of the second stage motor is what seperates the boosters. That will occur before the motor reaches full pressure.

If you using gap staging (motors not taped together) you want to do two things. Vent, and scotch tape around the tube coupler. Some motors like the C11-0 give off a lot of gas at staging, so they are prone to staging problems (which is why I think Estes discontinued them). I will enlarge my vent holes, and put more scotch tape on the tube coupler.
My bad :p

Silverfish
 

RangerStl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
1,080
Reaction score
1
I've been using Balsa Machining Services tubes and couplers. They fit together TIGHTLY and I have yet to have a failed gap-stage. I assume you are building up the coupler diameter to get a tighter fit yet retain the slickness of the scotch tape?

Now watch me crash them all on their next flights. You HAD to go and say something... :cyclops:

N
 

n3tjm

Papa Elf
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
205
Location
Penns Creek, PA
Scotch tape builds up the thickness but allows a smooth separation without the binding masking tape can do. :)
 

n3tjm

Papa Elf
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
205
Location
Penns Creek, PA
Flew the Renegade again :). Weather was good so I put a D12-0 and two A10-3T's in the booster, and a C6-7 in the Sustainer.

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/m-QFqgHIatQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/m-QFqgHIatQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]
 

RangerStl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
1,080
Reaction score
1
*tsk* *tsk*. You should clean your camera lens for to get da fuzzies off it.

N
 
Top