My first launch

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Here's a link to the Estes technical note showing the simple homemade "sextant" I referenced earlier: https://www.estesrockets.com/assets/downloads/mathofmodelrocketry.pdf

Earlier in this thread I gave a link to Esteseducator.com. Some of that information is also accessible from the Estes homepage under the "Education" menu in what appears to be an updated format but with less content. For example, the section on clustering is only one column of one page, whereas in the "Classic Collection" on esteseducator.com it is four pages! (including an illustration of what looks awfully a lot like a Fliskit Deuces Wild motor mount assembly (see Fig. 4) - Jim, is this where you got the idea :p ?) This seems to bear striking resemblance to the difference between my high school textbooks and those of my kids . . .
 
Quest put something like this for free on their website a while ago for DIY altitude tracking.

They called it an Inclinometer. I tried their site to get a link, but is seems to be slow or down right now.

But Jim's way works too if you want a rough estimate!;)
 
another easy way to estimate altitude is with a drop streamer, I belived this is also mentioned in the Handbook of Rocketry. using a 1/2" x 12" +/- piece of surveyors tape with a penny taped to it, check the handbook for the exact length. These streamers fall at about 1ft/ second. The streamer is ejected with the recovery system and counted down from ejection giving an approximate altitude.

In tests with theodolite trackers used as well these little drop streamers were fairly accurate. down side is you need two people to track the streamer and the model;)
 
Or just use a stop watch and have someone scream when it hits ground and you just watch the rocket. Ohh dohh that is two people. :mad: :(
 
Disapointed that I couldn't launch last weekend due to the wind and threat of rain, I was really looking forward to launching this week after work and have my first experience with a standard size motor and parachute recovery.

Unfortunately, I seem to have gotten a head cold so I didn't try to launch yesterday. Today I stayed home sick...but I just couldn't get that Alpha III out of my head. Looking out the window an hour ago, I saw partly cloudy skies and little to no wind.

A launch or two wouldn't kill me.....so against my wife's better judgement, I gathered up my stuff and set off for the open field where I had my first launch on Friday. When I arrived, I was annoyed that the wind had picked up a bit, probably 10 mph. Actually, it probably didn't pick up, but an open field doesn't have all of the houses acting as wind blocks. Nevertheless, I decide to launch.

For the first flight of the Alpha III, I put in a conservative A8-3 motor instead of the B6-4 included with the kit. The launch was just as fun as the previous ones. While I've only been in the hobby for less than a week, I'd suspect that no one gets bored of the whoosh sound of motor ignition and liftoff.

Unlike last Friday's launches, I tried to pay close attention to what was going on during the flight. The first thing I noticed was that the Alpha III turned and flew into the wind, even though I had taken pains to make the launch rod vertical. (Is this windcocking?) The rocket's apogee was clearly apparent, and the ejection charge fired about 2 seconds after the rocket began its downward arc. The parachute deployment was nominal (a word I've picked up from my wife's NASA engineering colleagues). What really surprised me was just how much the parachute slows a rocket's descent. Even though the wind was about the same as on Friday, the parachute allowed the Alpha to drift much father away from the pad than the Firestreak with its streamer.

When I retrieved the rocket I was happy to see that I had no recovery system damage and that I seemed to have placed the recovery wadding in correctly. Thinking about the wind, I toyed with cutting a hole in the chute but I had left my scissors at home.

I swapped out the spent A8-3 and replaced it with a B6-4. A few moments later the rocket was back on the pad. I also tilted the rod about 10 degrees into the wind to see if that would help (you'll learn it didn't). I had the presence of mind this time to use the stopwatch on my cell phone to time the flight.

Was the B6 motor ever different from the A8! The liftoff didn't seem that much faster, but it seemed that the rocket just kept accelerating. In fact, I lost sight of the rocket! The Alpha III is quite distinctly colored (black tube and neon-orange nosecone and fins) and I was surprised, giddy, and extremely worried when I could not visually see nor hear any trace of the rocket for over two seconds! (Is this normal, or are my windy conditions destroying the effect of the tracking smoke?)

To my relief, it came back into view, tumbling end over end. A second after reaquiring it visually, the ejection charge fired and the parachute deployed, but the rocket kept its end-over-end tumble, which delayed the full parachute delployment for several seconds. Once the parachute fully deployed, the rocket rotated like a slowly spinning top as it slowly drifted to the ground.

And, oh did it drift! The wind just kept taking that rocket father and father away from me. I actually broke into a brisk jog (a dumb thing to do when you have a head cold) to follow it. It finally landed about 2/10s of a mile away (I measured the distance with my car's trip meter) on a concrete road. No damage. Total flight time: one minute, seven seconds.

My little jogging episode had left me quite winded, so given that and the wind, I decided not to try the C5 engine.

And there is my second launch report! Next time I'll try to remember to get a camera! :)
 
It sounds like you had another fun launch Michael. Like others, I'd recommend a streamer in wind.

When it tilts into the wind it's weathercocking. Your rod was probably straight, but the wind will change that. If you ever get a fast rocket such as the Skywriter, you'll notice it doesn't really weathercock due to design and speed.

Now get over the cold and launch more rockets.
 
....when launching that Alpha on a C, bring some friends with you. It will go higher than you imagine! :D
Having several pairs of eyes tracking is a HUGE help in getting it back!

Best day for any smaller rocket with a relatively large motor is(imho) a windless, overcast day. I usually have a much harder time tracking against a clear blue sky than I do against a cloud cover.
 
I ran an altitude competition for the local club on a corn field using silver Mylar streamers. The left-over corn stalks made it tough to find small models--we found that a line determined by the launch pad and the part you found would usually lead you to the rest of the rocket.
 
Originally posted by Rocketry nut
When it tilts into the wind it's weathercocking. Your rod was probably straight, but the wind will change that. If you ever get a fast rocket such as the Skywriter, you'll notice it doesn't really weathercock due to design and speed.
The Skywriter is longer and slightly heavier than the Alpha III; if anything, I'd think it more likely to weathercock than the Alpha III. But since both are light and relatively narrow, I wouldn't expect either of them to weathercock much unless something is slowing them down or there's a lot of wind.

I'm also a little puzzled about mdrapp's report: on an A8-3, "the ejection charge fired about 2 seconds after the rocket began its downward arc", while on a B6-4, "it came back into view, tumbling end over end" before the ejection charge fired. Neither of these is behaviour I'd expect from the little Alpha III. An A8-3 should fire its ejection charge before apogee and I'd be happy to put an A8-5 in one; and it shouldn't tumble at all with a B6-4. Nearly getting lost on a B6-4 is, however, the sort of behaviour I'd expect from an Alpha III, especially if it's coming back under a parachute. :D
 
I'm only talking about the Skywriter from experience. We have launched it in winds 15-20mph on a C5-3 many times. It alway flies arrow staight with no weathercocking at all. I have never flown the Alpha 3. Plus longer rockets are normally more stable than shorter ones.
 
I'm going to replace the parachute on the Alpha III with a streamer and see what happens. Should the streamer be of a certain length for a certain sized rocket?
 
mdrapp:
Generally the rule of thumb for streamers is for the length to be at least 10 times the width.
As with all rules of thumb this can be extended, but shouldn't be reduced by much.
I have a slightly modified Alpha-III I fly on streamers only. because of the restricted area in an Alpha I use a 2-1/4" by 90" wrapping mylar streamer, in orange metallic. the model looks like its streaming a long orange flickering flame in the sky on the way down.
These materal is available at just about any "party store" and some craft stores as well. I like the sheet packed materal so I can make either chutes or streamers from the same package. they are usually 20" x 30" and about 2mils thick, if you look around you can find some 1.5mil mylars which are a bit better for chutes:) It's easy to make longer streamers by cutting your strips to width than taping 2 or 3 sections together with mylar wrapping tape or silver adhesive backed trim Monokote. I use the same silve tape for "tape Discs" on mylar chutes as well:)
I believe ASP sells a roll of 1/2" wide silver mylar tape that works great for both jobs as well.

083-sm_alpha iii custom_10-12-90.jpg
 
Well, better sooner than later I suppose. I lost both rockets today.

I was excited about launching as the wind was 5-10 rather than the 10-20 it's been. Still wanting to better observe apogee and ejection charges I decided to start with the Firestreak SST using an A10-3T engine.

The first launch was uneventful. Ejection charge went off just at apogee. While descending, I noticed the streamer didn't unfurl to its full length, yet the rocket landed with no damage in some grass.

I quickly recycled the rocket to try again. I should have known something was wrong when I started to roll up the streamer and it felt like it was sticking to itself (heat damage, obviously). Nevertheless I continued to prep the rocket and send it skyward. I heard the ejection charge go off and witnessed the cession of the tracking smoke -- but the nose cone was still attached.

I watched as the rocket arced over and lawn darted into the ground. My first recovery system failure. I have to admit it looked pretty cool buried four inches into the ground. My first surprise was when I tried to remove the rocket from the ground. The nose cone was stuck. It wouldn't wiggle at all! With all my strength I couldn't remove that thing from the ground. I eventually had to do some excavation with scissors to get it out. The nose cone is severely damaged...broken in two, with a large crack on one side, but whiteish stress marks as well. I believe this rocket is retired.

On to the Alpha III. This time I cut a large hole in the parachute before launching. I used an A8-3 to get an idea of what it would do. Again, a low and uneventful flight with the parachute deploying nominally.

I then switched to a B6-4. Like last time, I was amazed as I lost sight of the rocket and the first visual cue that it was up there at all was the ejection charge firing. I watched in slowly descend to the ground. The hole in the parachute helped a great deal...it wasn't drifting nearly as far away as yesterday. I swear I saw it make a soft landing in the grass....but as I went to retrieve it, I could not find it! I started an intense search pattern....30 minutes later, I still could not find it. Could I be mistaken and it actually went into the nearby lake?

I drove home and got my wife to help. We searched until sunset. No rocket. How do you lose a neon-orange rocket with a yellow parachute? It must have gone into the lake.

Well, I've learned two things this evening: recovery systems are very important, and it helps to have a second set of eyes out there helping you launch and retrieve.
 
Your not the first one to lose a rocket that you are sure you knew where it landed. It's all part of the hobby.
If you don't lose one every once in a while somethings not right.
Just makes you want to build and fly more. ;)
Better luck next time.
 
Longer than 10:1 isn't necessarily better for a streamer - too long and it will stretch out straight instead of flutter (which is what causes the needed drag). I'll admit I've only read this and not seen it in practice, but it makes sense to me: long is self-stabilizing from the drag on the tail end.

You want to fold a streamer in thirds before rolling it. You may have done that, but it didn't sound like it from your post. This helps it deploy better. Dusting it with talc while folding/rolling will also help it deploy.

If it's just the nosecone (NC) on the Firestreak that's damaged, save the rest and you'll eventually have another nosecone you can retrofit to it and make it flyable again. But if the body tube (BT) is crumpled, it's toast.

If you have a second spotter, it helps to have them positioned at a right angle from the pad and first spotter, both looking away from the sun. That way, one of them can see drift in a direction that the other can't. Otherwise, it can be very hard to tell how far away a rocket is because you don't have much reference to go by.

Sounds like you have a healthy positive attitude toward learning about rocketry. That means you gotta whole lotta mo' fun ahead of you :D
 
Originally posted by mdrapp
Well, better sooner than later I suppose. I lost both rockets today.

I was excited about launching as the wind was 5-10 rather than the 10-20 it's been. Still wanting to better observe apogee and ejection charges I decided to start with the Firestreak SST using an A10-3T engine.

The first launch was uneventful. Ejection charge went off just at apogee. While descending, I noticed the streamer didn't unfurl to its full length, yet the rocket landed with no damage in some grass.

I quickly recycled the rocket to try again. I should have known something was wrong when I started to roll up the streamer and it felt like it was sticking to itself (heat damage, obviously). Nevertheless I continued to prep the rocket and send it skyward. I heard the ejection charge go off and witnessed the cession of the tracking smoke -- but the nose cone was still attached.

I watched as the rocket arced over and lawn darted into the ground. My first recovery system failure. I have to admit it looked pretty cool buried four inches into the ground. My first surprise was when I tried to remove the rocket from the ground. The nose cone was stuck. It wouldn't wiggle at all! With all my strength I couldn't remove that thing from the ground. I eventually had to do some excavation with scissors to get it out. The nose cone is severely damaged...broken in two, with a large crack on one side, but whiteish stress marks as well. I believe this rocket is retired.

On to the Alpha III. This time I cut a large hole in the parachute before launching. I used an A8-3 to get an idea of what it would do. Again, a low and uneventful flight with the parachute deploying nominally.

I then switched to a B6-4. Like last time, I was amazed as I lost sight of the rocket and the first visual cue that it was up there at all was the ejection charge firing. I watched in slowly descend to the ground. The hole in the parachute helped a great deal...it wasn't drifting nearly as far away as yesterday. I swear I saw it make a soft landing in the grass....but as I went to retrieve it, I could not find it! I started an intense search pattern....30 minutes later, I still could not find it. Could I be mistaken and it actually went into the nearby lake?

I drove home and got my wife to help. We searched until sunset. No rocket. How do you lose a neon-orange rocket with a yellow parachute? It must have gone into the lake.

Well, I've learned two things this evening: recovery systems are very important, and it helps to have a second set of eyes out there helping you launch and retrieve.

Hey, don't sweat it, happens to me all the time, like it lands and gets demolished by a car and I never find it. :(
 
Originally posted by mdrapp
I should have known something was wrong when I started to roll up the streamer and it felt like it was sticking to itself (heat damage, obviously).
I never use the stock plastic streamer, and this is one reason why. Wander over to Wal-Mart and buy yourself a $0.48 roll of crepe paper from the party supplies department. Works fantastic, and you can't beat the price.
 
I found my Alpha III! :D

I headed out to the field one last time today to see if I could find the rocket. I was hoping that the higher sun angle would help.

As I searched the area I became very perplexed. The grass wasn't that high and there was a steady wind. Surely I should see the Estes parachute fluttering in the breeze!

I walked the 500 feet back to where I had launched it and tried to remember exactly what I saw when it landed. Maybe it landed further than I thought. I walked to a ridge of rocks, in front of which I was certain the rocket had landed, and went beyond those to the lake. I walked around the lake's edge looking for any sign of a washed up rocket. I found none, but as I walked back toward the rocks, my eyes caught a glint of neon-orange and then the unmistakeable yellow and white of the Estes parachute. The Alpha III had landed nearly 80 ft farther than I had thought. When I "saw" the rocket disappear into the grass in front of the rocks, what I was actually seeing was it disappearing behind the rocks! Amazing how one's eyes can be fooled at long distances.

The rocket seems to have held up fairly well overnight. It wasn't as humid as it could have been and the body tube seems okay. the parachute has some heat damage, but I was planning on going the streamer route anyway.

Something that is perplexing me is that the tips of the plastic fins are all bent. Do you think this is from landing impact (it landed on semi-hard soil) or perhaps heat from launch? Are balsa fins better at absorbing the shock of impact?
 
I've never had a plastic fin unit suffer noticable damage from landing with a recovery system, however, I have had lots of damage from melting. So without seeing the fins, I'd guess it's melting. I would be inclined to think impact damage would cause more in the way of sharp chips or breaks instead of bends.
 
Balsa will break on Very high impacts if built poorly but they won't bend, they break and are much easier to repair. :D
 
I agree that the damage is almost certainly due to melting at launch. As 10fttall says, if a plastic fin takes landing damage at all, it will break rather than bend. Also, fins distorted at launch time would account for the odd performance of the Alpha III observed during its flight.

You're probably using the stock Estes Porta Pad. This has the blast plate mounted horizontally, meaning it will deflect the blast straight up, i.e. toward the rocket's tail. This is not good for a rocket with plastic fins, as I found out with my Astrocam! You could put a clothes peg onto the launch rod a few inches up from the plate to prevent the rocket from sliding all the way down, thus keeping the fins out of the way of the blast.

Balsa fins exposed to the reflected blast won't bend like plastic fins but they may still be scorched; at the very least, it will spoil the paintwork. So it's worth using the clothes peg even for a balsa-finned rocket.
 
Sitting a rocket directly on a horizontal blast deflector is bad. See below:
pic.php
.

See how charred the aft end is. Not only is the aft centering ring charred, but the fins are charred also.
 
You may not need to retire the rocket. I had a rocket try to do a lawn dart on pavement:
https://www.putfile.com/bguff/images/92247
I was convinced the rocket would never fly again.

But after a couple weeks i realized i could fiberglass the nosecone back together, and could replace most of the airframe with a body tube and a coupler to hold the replacment body tube to the surviving fin can:
https://www.putfile.com/bguff/images/92245.

Keep in mind the nose cone i repaired would have cost around 10 dollars to replace, so the effort seemed worthwhile to me.


Here is a video of the rocket, after the rebuild:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4SSVmoqMsk
 
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