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My First Experience... Quest D, E, and F Engines.

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rokitflite

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As I am sure many of the folks here will tell you; working for or even owning a model rocket company will not make you rich in most cases. But sometimes being an employee certainly has its benefits! FINALLY after several scrubbed attempts, Foosefest 2009 was a go and I got to test fire about half a dozen of the new Quest D, E, and F black powder engines. In short I will say they will be worth the wait!!! The only real instruction I received with the engines was “not to wear my best underwear when flying these motors”. That was good advice since I started with an F12-4. I was a little concerned about the weight of the model as I understood this to be about the same thrust rate as an Estes D12. We loaded the engine up into Jim Filler’s “Extended” Big Daddy which was basically a standard Big Daddy with a 29mm engine mount and a full 34” length 3” dia. body tube. The model weighed in at 409 grams without the engine, with the engine installed, the weight was bumped up to 511 grams. Knowing that an Estes D struggles with anything over 12 ounces and we were now over 16, we called a “heads up flight” and pressed the launch button… POWHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!! The rocket leapt off the pad and for over 4 seconds rode upwards on a column of thick white smoke. What is interesting about all of the new Quest engines is that the delay grain burns loudly so instead of 4 seconds of thrust and 4 seconds of delay, it SOUNDED like 8 seconds of thrust… VERY COOL!!! A little after apogee the chute popped and after what SEEMED to be a close to 1000 ft flight, the model landed within about 50 yards of the pads. Beautiful!

The second engine I chose was the D8-3. I ASSUMED, as did the rest of us, that this would be a slightly whimpy D, and thus loaded it up into my BT-80 upscale mosquito which weighed in at 212 grams. I had flown this model with C11s so I figured it should be safe. The engine ignited instantly and blasted the model off of the pad with more force than I had seen in any flight it had made with a D12. And the nice long roar was very pleasing! The model went way higher than it had on any previous flight, and thanks to Jim’s advice; “You should point it straight up” (instead of a little into the wind), I had a 10+ minute walk to recover the model.

Craig WAS going to fly his Pem Tech Kraken on one of the D8s, but after we saw what it did to my Mosquito, we decided to put the engine in his heavier Neubauer Rocketry Orion II. The model ripped off the pad to a very respectable altitude and recovered safely. Another outstanding flight, and the delay time seemed spot-on.

Next up was my “Pirates Booty” rocket which had been waiting to fly for months http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=1043 . I decided to go with the E12-4 for this model. Without the engine the model weighed 430 grams, the engine added another 87 grams for a total weight of 517 grams or 1 lb, 2.24 oz. Yet another flawless flight with lots of smoke and noise. These motors really sound “angry”, and that just adds to the coolness factor. I would guess that it made it to around 600-700 feet and I got more exercise recovering it.

Kevin’s Valkyrie got the next E12-4. The model weighed 360 grams without the motor so we were confident that the E would do its job. We were not disappointed and it roared skyward for another great flight.

The last flight was Jerry’s Standard ARM with another D8-3. The model weighed about 10 oz. and had itself a picture perfect flight. Unfortunately I was waist deep in tick grass looking for a model when it launched so I did not round up the photographers in time.

To sum it up, THESE MOTORS ROCK!!!

Below are some of the outstanding photographs that Craig took, and Kevin will be adding some youtube links to this thread later on.

jims daddy 1.jpg


jims daddy 2.jpg


jims daddy 3.jpg


jims daddy 4.jpg
 
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Initiator001

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Scott,

Very cool. I WANT some of these motors! ;)

Any idea when they will be available to us mere mortals? :D
 

sandman

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So the burn time of the F12 is 4 sec+?

Way cool!

What are the dimensions of the F12? Length and diameter.
 

powderburner

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If we can have these new motors available in time, they are going to make some spectacular new options for designing TARC rockets (without the joys of messing with copperheads)
 

rokitflite

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Since these are BP motors they should be easy to light a cluster, right?

I am currently (when I get the time) rebuilding my Pad Abort model

http://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=25121&highlight=Pad+Abort

I was wondering if I should wait on making the motor mounts.

Four F12's should be impressive!

Before anybody says anything I am Level 1 certified!
Yeah Gordon, they ignite INSTANTLY with the new Quest igniters. I guess I am too used to composites to get the same power. Each time I pressed the launch button I was shocked at how quickly motion occured. Thank God Craig is a great photographer!:D
 

rokitflite

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Do we know enough about propellant weights yet that we could expect four of these motors to push into the "high power" rocketry category?
I just weighed a burnt out F motor versus a new one and the difference is 73 grams.
 

n3tjm

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Compaired to a E9 or D12, how much bigger/smaller is the nozzle and throat, and about how deep is the is the core?

My guess is these motors are like the FSI motors in regards to the nozzle/core design. Small nozzle throat to keep sustaining thrust up and deeper core for high spike at ignition. Make's the motor loud, mean, but downside is those motors are more prone to failure when they get older.

Awesome picks! Notice how wide the smoke plum gets! Can't wait till vendors get theses in stock :)
 

shreadvector

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Fred, can you help us out just a little for once? Instead of merely posting a link to a duplicate thread, without explaining what it is for (besides the obvious, that there is another thread on another forum on the same subject), could you maybe tell us why this link is important?

It is there so that we do not all have to re-type our comments already made on the other thread.

The best way to do this would have been to post one main thread (here) and refer everyone on the "olde" site over here. Yes, there are things often discussed on the "olde" forums that are not "old", but they do reside on a site primarily related to older stuff and history.

This site is definitely more active and more focused on new and current products.
 

shreadvector

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I just weighed a burnt out F motor versus a new one and the difference is 73 grams.

Bill Stine said that the F would be limited by the 62.5 grams of propellant limit. Your weight seems to agree: 62.5 grams of propellant, some delay and ejection and some eroded casing.

Probably 50 to 60 N-s total-impulse.
 

sandman

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115mm in length, 28mm in diameter.
OUCH!

That's a whole lot bigger than an Estes D12.

I may have to rethink this.

Maybe not.:rolleyes:

But 4 sec burn on the Pad Abort model...way way WAY COOL!:)
 

rokitflite

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Compaired to a E9 or D12, how much bigger/smaller is the nozzle and throat, and about how deep is the is the core?

My guess is these motors are like the FSI motors in regards to the nozzle/core design. Small nozzle throat to keep sustaining thrust up and deeper core for high spike at ignition. Make's the motor loud, mean, but downside is those motors are more prone to failure when they get older.

Awesome picks! Notice how wide the smoke plum gets! Can't wait till vendors get theses in stock :)

Well, to my not too trained eye, the nozzles appear to be PRETTY much the same size but the Quest motors don't seem to have the "kitty litter" clay look to the nozzle. Sticking a toothpick into each nozzle, the propellant seemed to start at pretty much the same point on each motor. Pictured from left to right, Quest F, Estes E, Estes D.

motor nozzles.jpg
 
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rstaff3

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Excellent report. I have 2 rockets build just for the E/F motors. One's a Big Daddy and one is cobbled together from junk and will fly on a cluster of three. Drooling.....
 

powderburner

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I have 2 rockets build just for the E/F motors.
Dick,
What did you use for MMT material? Estes obviously doesn't have anything suitable, and I don't see any tube material in the Totally Tubular catalog that would be the right size. Even Quest doesn't list anything (yet?) in their online info (the closest thing they have is 30mm with an inside diam of 29mm [1.141 inches]; is that supposed to be the right size for 28mm MMT?)
I know that was not an exhaustive search, and there are more sizes available from the high-power world. I am just wondering how to build a MMT for these new Quest motors. Is something like T52H (I.D. 1.14 inches) or Quest 30mm close enough, with some tape wraps on the motor?
 
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WOOSHPREZ

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I'm waiting for the release of these motors too.
I think that a cluster of big BP motors at a night launch would be
really fun.
I can't recall seeing any information on these coming along in booster types.
Will that happen at all?
 

kjohnson

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Below are some of the outstanding photographs that Craig took, and Kevin will be adding some youtube links to this thread later on.
Here we go with videos-

[YOUTUBE]SS4XKLP9lsM[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]FJupTY2bEdk[/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE]Ht7RemZ28Ho[/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE]wENEq34YKp4[/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE]ghvTpijTb3k[/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE]6f4PibzOEY4[/YOUTUBE]
 
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foose4string

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Great, Kevin!

Where is that launch site?

Cool videos. Great supplement to the photos.

John, my house backs up to a 300 acre farm owned by my wife's family. Lucky for me(and a few super cool rocket dudes) the fields closest to my house have been in hay for the past couple of years. The closest field(which I use most often) was in the process of being cut and raked, so we resorted to a larger, adjacent field that had been mowed a week or so ago. We were greeted by the smell of some freshly spread manure(fertilizer) upon entering the gate. We found a nice, untainted, portion of grassland to set up shop. We were upwind so the smell eluded us most of the day.... except during recovery ops. :eyepop:

Scott, my Orion II(balsa cone) weighs 9.9 oz or 280 grams. The D8-3 was about as perfect as it gets for that model.
 
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kjohnson

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There were other rockets flown besides the quest motor tests- if you go to you tube and search for FooseFest3 you will see about 10 videos so far.

kj

ps. Craig is a super cool rocket dude.
 

rokitflite

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We were upwind so the smell eluded us most of the day.... except during recovery ops. :eyepop:
Hench the "No Doo-Doo" cries I made during the recovery of "Pirates Booty".

Also, let us not forget our mascot for this outing...

shelby.jpg
 

georgegassaway

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Next up was my “Pirates Booty” rocket which had been waiting to fly for months http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=1043 .
I decided to go with the E12-4 for this model.
Silliness alert!

What if that E12 could have said something before that flight? With the voice of Samuel L. Jackson in smooth mode (Shaft remake):

“It is my duty, to boost that Booty....”

- George Gassaway
 
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foose4string

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Silliness alert!

What if that E12 could have said something before that flight? With the voice of Samuel L. Jackson in smooth mode (Shaft remake):

“It is my duty, to boost that Booty....”

- George Gassaway

With a bit of Hollywood editing on Kevin's video, I do believe that's entirely possible George!
 
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