My crazy day with some TARC kids

[Pat Butler]

I was contacted by a TARC team a few weeks ago in order to do their qualifcation flight. I set everyting up only to find out that they had just ordered their rocket parts. They had assumed that they would build their rocket during class on one day and make their qualification flight the next day- without any practice. That was an unworkable idea so I offerred more support after finding out that their physics teacher wasn't familiar with rocketry. And they obviously were missing out on the educational aspects of TARC.

We invited their team to our launch last week and one of our members who is very generous let them fly his rockets all afternoon, get practice with the reloads, and then gave them a few hundred dollars with of cases and reloads.

I went to their school today to give them a wide ranging presentation on building techniques, stability, RockSim, etc. I was absolutely astonished at how much high school has changed since I went there. This is a small rural high school with about 200 kids.

When I first entered the room I noticed the kids were watching a moving being projected onto a large screen. I was an R rated moving that had a very embarrassing scene on when I walked in the door. What sort of school allows that?? Some kids had their i-Pod's blaring music or were talking in their cell phones.

Their teacher was a really nice lady but terribly unorganized. She didn't have any tools for the kids to use, so she had kids running all over the school to collect things. The kids had bought hundreds of dollars worth of parts that were sort of mix and match. Bill from BMS is a local guy so I had referred them to him and he did a great job of rushing their order and allowing them to pick up their parts from his house.

The teacher was really frazzled and it was clear that she wanted me to give them instructions on how to build their rockets. She came up with a few Xacto knifes then got some scalpels from the biology room. One kid printed out the centering ring templates from Rocksim and they wanted to cut them out. Rocksim wasn't printing out the center hole on their template- I had the same problem myself one time but couldn't remember the fix. No problem- I asked if they had a compass and they found one. I asked if anyone knew how to use a compass to find the center of a circle as these were seniors who all had geometry class. No one had a clue including their teacher. I showed them how to do that.

They spent the next hour attempting to cut out their centering rings. Even the teacher tried doing it. The teacher and 3 other kids all cut themselves with their Exacto knifes and one girl screamed because her scalpel had remnants of some part of an animal on the blade from the biology class. I started laughing at that point. One poor kid finally got one centering ring cut out after 45 minutes then ended up breaking it when he forced it into the body tube. His teacher wasn't fazed at all when his reaction was a series of four-letter words.

I've heard Jim Fliss state that all the time and it's so hard to believe what lack of basic building skills today's youth has. I finally had to give them a lesson on cutting. I told them they mastered the art of cutting flesh and now we'll try the balsa wood. They had bought some 60 grit sandpaper for finishing. We had to find a finer grit in their shop room and all they had were round discs that had vent holes in them apparently for an orbital sander. None of these kids knew how to sand! That was the next lesson.

We then went on to the fins. They couldn't figure out a way to get the 3 lines on their body tube. I asked if anyone knew how many degrees apart the 3 fins were suppose to be and they all gave me a blank stare. I have to wonder what sort of geometry is being taught at that school.

I finally showed them how to wrap a piece of paper around the tube and mark it so that it indicates the circumference. I then asked them how they would divide that width up into 3 parts. Again, no one had a clue. I showed them how to use their compass as dividers just like in the 1950's . I asked them if there might be a better way to do it. I finally told them to measure the width and divide by 3. I told the one kid to measure in millimeters so that it would be easier to divide. His width came up to 210 millimeters and no one in the class could divide that by 3 in their head. One girl finally used her calculator and was so proud of herself for 'finding' the answer.

I was feeling so sorry for these students. I asked how they thought they might draw a line on their body tube and no one had any ideas. I finally used their door jamb as an example. The TV show McGiver came to mind. These kids were just assembling their rockets using brute force. I ended up talking to their teacher for about an hour after class.

Their teacher had told me that they learned about CG & CP. So my idea was to just reinforce a few ideas. It became apparent that they had no practical application of the CG/CP relationship and how to adjust it, etc. There's just not enough time to cover that much material.

I felt so bad for their entire situation. I'll likely be helping them during the next week or so. I feel that as a mentor that my job is to assist people like this, and that's one of the golas. But it is a sad situation that they are lacking in some very basic life skills that they should be learning in school.

 

[bobkrech]

That's a shame. It's too bad they apparently didn't have/read a copy of the Handbook of Model Rocketry by G Harry Stein or do any websearches on model rocketry. It's probably a bit late in game right now for them to have a chance at qualifying, but with you as a mentor, hopefully they will have learned a few thing and can try again next year.

Fortunately at CMASS we have the opposite problem. On Saturday we will be sponsoring a launch where at least 8 MA and NH teams will be attempting to qualify and/or at least practice launch on Saturday, and expect another 8 more team to attempt the same in two weeks.

If all goes well, at least 2 might make it to the finals. One of our teams finished second a few years ago, and this year we have one team attempt to make the finals 3 years in a row and they are participating for the second straight year in SLI. Another team is trying to make it 2 in a row. Most of the teachers we see are pretty well organized and the teams for the most part are pretty sharp.

Bob

 

[jj94]

Yikes. How much did they get done on the rocket?


And about the movie they were watching, that's astonishing, how it would be approved by a teacher. An R rated movie would never get through my school district for the students to watch. Sometimes, they even give out permission slips for the students' parents to sign for clearance that they are allowed to watch PG-13 movies. That's a shame to hear things like that from a school.

 

[MaxQ]

Well, that pretty much tells us why the country is going downhill.

The only thing to stop it from happening, is guys like you Pat, and those other teams Bob is helping.

And everyone else that is providing guidance to these otherwise turnkey kids that are more interested in hip pop dreams of notoriety and making it big on ET.

 

[jj94]

Fortunately at CMASS we have the opposite problem. On Saturday we will be sponsoring a launch where at least 8 MA and NH teams will be attempting to qualify and/or at least practice launch on Saturday, and expect another 8 more team to attempt the same in two weeks.

If all goes well, at least 2 might make it to the finals. One of our teams finished second a few years ago, and this year we have one team attempt to make the finals 3 years in a row and they are participating for the second straight year in SLI. Another team is trying to make it 2 in a row. Most of the teachers we see are pretty well organized and the teams for the most part are pretty sharp.

Bob

You guys are lucky up there. Our TARC team needs to get in some of the first test flights, but the launches have been cancelled three times in a row due to high winds and/or rain. We're probably going to launch without the club at an abandoned aircraft manufacturing facility/air base with a senior NAR member/mentor sometime this week.

 

[Jeremy Lundy]

This will be my first year as a TARC advisor at my school. We are starting early for next year and hopfully we will give you veternens a run for your money. As for the kid's ability it really depends how the teacher puts the team together. Personally I hand picked middle and HS kids that I knew over 6 years of teaching science. Each one has special skills that will be helpful. This helps you know what kind of talent the team might have. However, I too have noticed a general lack of building skills with today's kids. In general I don't think they experiment and build things like kids did years ago. Yes there are exceptions but overall your lucky if 3 out of 20 can read a ruler and use basic tools well. The ones that can do it in HS probably could do it in 5th grade. The ones that can't never really seem to pick it up. Today parents don't really let/ encourage kids experiment enough. When I was 10 my dad taught me how to tig weld and when I was 15 I could build pretty much anything and use every tool in a machine shop. Even those not surrounded by tools could get by with basic instructions. However, today's kids can probably do more math than I could but without practical skills to apply the math to what good is it! Model rocketry encourages science, math and engeneering. Its all good!
jer

 

[Pat Butler]

What's interesting is that the teacher chose to use TARC as part of her lesson plan for this semester. Most of the girls were complaining that they weren't interested. I can understand if they have no interest, but I cannot understand having them telling that to their teacher. I would have flunked if I told any teacher that I had no interest in what they were teaching.

On the upside, there's one student who has the most interest and it appears that he is doing his best to lead his fellow students; moreso than the teacher. This kid is taking flying lessons just like I was at his age, so we had some interesting discussions. I just wish some of them were underclassmen so that they could carry some knowledge into next year and build upon their prior knowledge as a team. It's just too late for them to build fin jigs, parachutes, etc. this year.

I really do have a concern about the eroding industrial base of our country and that's one of my major goals in mentoring. At least the TARC program gives us everyday people access to the youth to teach them these specialized skills.

Jeremy- your comments about practical skills really hit home. While the teacher had supposedly taught them about CG/CP relationship, she didn't teach them how to apply it. They complained that one of their Estes rockets kept nosing into the wind, obviously overstable. Yet the teacher herself didn't understand what overstable meant. Doesn't do any good to not have any practical application for that sort of knowledge.

I expect that their teacher will probably get our club more involved next year at an earlier time to set up a more comprehensive program. That, in and of itself, would be a success and probably what the TARC founders had in mind.

 

[poke44]

well i had to resign from my teaching position due to the lack of A's i was giving out...

The TARC team i have has never been as enthusiastic as i was about the project and i ended up doing most of the work, but no biggie, they learned some and enjoyed shooting off some rockets so its all good... plan was that next year for them to be more self reliant, guess that isnt going to happen

 

[Jeremy Lundy]

Pat, keep working at it! You never know what the kids really take away from it. Even when you don't think they are learning many times they are and in my experience its the things you think they will remember least that they walk away with. Doing new things will build their confidence and next year the ones who stay with it will grow quickly. I told my team if nothing else they will learn organizational skills, deadlines, and how to work with others to do a job. These are other skills kids need more of for the real world. There is so much more out there than state standards and tests. I only wish the powers that be would let more people get back to the basics.
jer

ps. what school/state are you in? I wish I had more club folks near me to help out! I have no idea who will time us when the time comes?

 

[dpoceta]

Wow, that doesn't sound at all like my high school. I guess I am just really lucky.

My orchestra conductor (San Diego Civic Youth Symphony) always talks about a new high school class that should be introduced: AP Common Sense.

 

[Bigander]

Yeah well, look at my high school
https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22840727/

 

[SCE to AUX]

I haven't been involved in TARC, but I had some similar experiences mentoring a team for the FIRST robotics competition a few years back.

The kids were from the local HS, and they partnered up with a local civil engineering firm for financial support, and the university instrument shop I work in for help with the actual robot build.

For those unfamiliar with the FIRST program, teams are given a standardized kit of parts (including some pretty nice motors, pneumatics and R/C equipment), and a voucher from a supplier of electromechanical parts to purchase anything else that the teams want from the catalog up to a predetermined limit (was $250, IIRC). The teams need to build remote controlled machines to compete against other teams in some type of game, which generally involved grabbing and placing large rubber balls (think beach balls) into scoring goals of some type, while preventing the opposing team from doing the same. (The exact game varies each year). The teams are given 6 weeks from the time the game rules are revealed and the kits are distributed (in a "kick-off" ceremony in NH) until the day that their machine must be crated and shipped to the competition site. That's 6 weeks to design, source additional parts, fabricate, assemble, debug, refine, and prove the machine out, plus get the team members who will actually operate the thing in competition some time to practice their driving skills. The machine needs to meet strict size/weight limits, as well as limitations on quantities of some particularly useful materials. The finished machines usually end up in the 120-150 pound range, so these aren't little RC toys you are building.

All in all, it makes for a heck of a challenge, and could be a GREAT introduction to the engineering design process for mechanically inclined HS students interested in going into engineering in college. Unfortunately, that isn't the group we ended up with...

The HS we were teamed up with had eliminated all their shop classses several years before, so none of the students (except one, who's dad was a machinist) had any exposure to shop work of any kind. The HS wouldn't allow the students to spend any time in our shop before the build started, so they could learn how to do anything, and the students certainly didn't show any interest in doing so on their own after school hours.

The school also seemed to have a big problem with us "hands-on types" having any say as to which students were selected for the team. I'm not sure exactly what criteria the school used for this decision, but judging from what we saw during the brainstorming and design phase of the build, it couldn't have involved scientific or mathematical ability. We spent LOTS of valuable time explaining concepts like gear ratio, mechanical advantage, and even basic shop math/geometry that their teachers should have taken care of! :surprised:

The idea here is that the STUDENTS should be doing the vast majority of the work, with supervision and advice from the professional engineering mentors. Well, after 2 weeks of remedial math/science classes disguised as design work, SOMETHING had to be done so that we would have SOMETHING to ship in a month. Because the university and corporate sponsor's names would be displayed prominently on the machine, and the competition would be on TV, higher-ups from both groups were anxious not to be a total laughingstock. The long and the short of it was that 3 of us from the instrument shop were put onto the build project as a full-time assignment for the next month (including many late nights towards the end), and we ended up essentially doing the whole damned thing FOR the kids, with the major student contribution being a bizarre looking rattle-can paint job the day before it shipped. :rotflol:

We didn't actually do all that bad in the competition (we actually placed ahead of teams mentored by MIT and one of the NASA centers (I think it was Ames). But as far as a learning experience for the kids it was a total waste.

Given the RIGHT group of students, REAL commitment from the school, and resources to make sure that the kids can "hit the ground running" when the build starts, it could be a great program. But without these, it just left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

 

[Jeremy Lundy]

My friend who works for Honda R&D in Ohio said the exact same thing about his First team! Its funny because some of these schools have thousands of dollars in funds for these types of events but no kids who know how to build anything. It took me 2 years of asking to get $500 between two schools (3000 students) to start my TARC team! I heard one school in Long Island got $10,000. Thats 1/3rd my salary after 7 years teaching hear in upstate NY! I will have an extra big smile on my face if/ when we beat that school!

 

[Pat Butler]

we ended up essentially doing the whole damned thing FOR the kids, with the major student contribution being a bizarre looking rattle-can paint job the day before it shipped

I practically spit my coffee out on that one :lol:

It doesn't take that much instruction to get these kids going. Heck, one quarter of basic wood shop or machine shop to at least get them introduced to have to make something. But it seems that too many kids make it through school with very little hands-on learning.

We homeschool our kids, and after today I'm more convinced than ever that we made the right decision. But I'm still very concerned about the public school kids and will continue to volunteer there. It makes you wonder how their teachers are grading these kids. They need to have accountability, and those kids just hanging around and not doing anything should get bad grades.

I'm in northern Illinois and I think there are 5 or 6 TARC teams. I'm aware of 3 or 4 of those that have successful in house programs so they have no need for mentors. This school is about 40 miles south of my house so I never thought of calling them directly to see if they needed any assistance.

 

[SCE to AUX]

I practically spit my coffee out on that one :lol:

I think they were going for an intimidating "camouflage" look, but it just ended up looking like someone barfed all over it...

It doesn't take that much instruction to get these kids going. Heck, one quarter of basic wood shop or machine shop to at least get them introduced to have to make something. But it seems that too many kids make it through school with very little hands-on learning.

Between the NCLB program that forces teachers to use all of their classroom time teaching to a standardized test, fear of lawsuits from parents if a kid gets hurt screwing around in shop class, mandating that shop teachers have standard teaching credentials (leaving out almost everyone with enough real-world shop experience to be qualified to teach the subject in the first place), and the pervasive attitude that every kid needs to go on to college, so why bother teaching such "blue collar" skills at all, and you have the death of "hands-on" skills among American kids.

It's been going this way slowly for years, but the effects are really starting to snowball now...

We homeschool our kids, and after today I'm more convinced than ever that we made the right decision.

Glad to see I'm not the only one. Actually, I'm going to be doing a rocketry "build and launch" for our local homeschool group next month.

 

[jflis]

That's a shame. It's too bad they apparently didn't have/read a copy of the Handbook of Model Rocketry by G Harry Stein or do any websearches on model rocketry. It's probably a bit late in game right now for them to have a chance at qualifying, but with you as a mentor, hopefully they will have learned a few thing and can try again next year.

This, I think, is key. Even if it appear hopeless for this year (not say that it is though), it will be important to help make it a positive learning experience so that there would be interest in USING this as a *learning* experience with the intent to use the summer to learn more and be ready to really show their stuff next year. By way of example, you can show/explain the amount of practice we had to do in order to get to the moon (the entire Mercury, Gemini programs and all of the early Apollo flights before Apollo 11, for example)

Keep at it. This is where your work and input can really matter.

 

[Nuke Rocketeer]

I was talking to a guy who went to high school with me back in rural West Texas and he was telling me that the state has really de-emphasized shop and vocational classes. They are requiring so much academic work under the faulty assumption that everyone should go to college thast there is hardly anytime left in the day for shop. Here in the Chicago area most schools have closed and sold off their shops too.

I have helped 6th grade science teachers do a rocketry class and I have been shocked at how little modeling and construction skills boys today have. Hell, my dad used to have to take a 2X4 to me to keep me away from tools, but boys nowsdays seem to have no interest. They would rather play video games. This does not bode well for future engineers and I am also now seeing that in the new hires we are getting at my company. 90%+ of them have absolutely no practical skills, and no real comprehension of what it takes to build something.

 

[Pat Butler]

Nuke- I drove through your town today on my way to this school in Garnder. I live in Boulder Hill (outside of Montgomery.)

 

[ghost]

This will be my first year as a TARC advisor at my school. We are starting early for next year and hopfully we will give you veternens a run for your money. As for the kid's ability it really depends how the teacher puts the team together. Personally I hand picked middle and HS kids that I knew over 6 years of teaching science. Each one has special skills that will be helpful. This helps you know what kind of talent the team might have. However, I too have noticed a general lack of building skills with today's kids. In general I don't think they experiment and build things like kids did years ago. Yes there are exceptions but overall your lucky if 3 out of 20 can read a ruler and use basic tools well. The ones that can do it in HS probably could do it in 5th grade. The ones that can't never really seem to pick it up. Today parents don't really let/ encourage kids experiment enough. When I was 10 my dad taught me how to tig weld and when I was 15 I could build pretty much anything and use every tool in a machine shop. Even those not surrounded by tools could get by with basic instructions. However, today's kids can probably do more math than I could but without practical skills to apply the math to what good is it! Model rocketry encourages science, math and engeneering. Its all good!
jer

I'm the student leader of my TARC team (which is a new club this year at my school - founded by me... but I also founded the club at my old school). Anyways, I am lucky enough to have a VERY enthusiastic and smart team. We have already had an excellent qualifying score (<9), so we are all pretty excited. Almost everyone had excellent building skills. It is very clear, however, why this happened.
My high school is somewhat unique. According to most of my science teachers, we are one of the few high schools in the countries who still use labs extensively. In chemistry honors, for example, we have 1-2 labs per week in which our instructor gives us a task. We must design the lab ourselves and write a 3-4 page lab report/analysis. This process is great because it helps students develop practical skills as well as analytical ones. Activities like this (which occur in all science classes at my school) are the key to a great team that is enthusiastic, IMO. In addition, my school offers a class called SSR (Scientific Research and Study) where students develop their own projects and they basically build it themselves. This also develops practical skills.
Unfortunately, it seems that these concepts are quite rare in schools For example, I wish I was born 40 years ago. I would have loved the chemistry set from back then! Explosions! Radioactivity! But nowadays chemistry sets use labels such as "No Chemicals" as a marketing point. It is really ridiculous. At this rate, how is our country going to ever move forward????

 

[Pippen]

I was talking to a guy who went to high school with me back in rural West Texas and he was telling me that the state has really de-emphasized shop and vocational classes. They are requiring so much academic work under the faulty assumption that everyone should go to college thast there is hardly anytime left in the day for shop. Here in the Chicago area most schools have closed and sold off their shops too.
.

When I was teaching we were running out of room in the science department so they remodeled the adjacent auto shop into several science classrooms. I got a beautiful new physics lab and the auto shop teacher was moved to the shop area of the building into a classroom that a car couldn't be driven into. We had the whole spectrum of kids in our science classes and knew that vocational ed was important but it didn't matter--the choice was out of our hands.

 

[DAllen]

Pat...

I think you have a case of a teacher that just doesn't give a rip and doesn't have a clue. My TARC experience was just the opposite. My biggest problem was dealing with the wild ideas they would come up with and try to keep them on the KISS principle. If they were left to their own devices their rocket would be a M powered R/C glider and then I have to ask them what the rules are and where in the world are they going to get the money. I would just be the voice of reason for them by asking simple, unbiased questions:

"I think our rocket needs rear deployment."

"Uhh...Ok...why?"

"It would be cool."

"Ok...how are you going to do this?"

"I donno...It would be cool. Um...Maybe we don't want to do that."

They crack me up with conversations like that all the time. They are very smart and very well behaved and I think that is a direct reflection of their parents and teacher.

-DAllen

 

[Jeremy Lundy]

I would like to second what Ghost said. It's good to hear a students thoughts on this. Most HS Regents classes have lab components that the kids MUST complete in many states. If your state does not I would make a fuss if I were you. However, with that said I should also note that very few of the schools I know including the one I teach at does much in the way of using real scientific equipment such as chemicals etc. in the middle school. Any I know even in at the HS level it is less and less depending on the teacher in charge. 20 years ago you could buy a chemical set from a toy store that actually had chemicals it it! 60 years ago the you could have built a reactor with one of them. Today your luckt to even find one and when you do its full of plastic spoons, sugar and food coloring. There may be 1 test tube for god only knows what. How the hell did this mess happen? If its not in the public's mind or culture its not going to be in our schools either! All I can say is the next time you see a teacher please let them know its OK for them to allow your son or daughter to learn about these things! Many terachers are afraid to show kids this stuff and to teach them how to do "real" science especially in lowere level chemistry and physics classes.

 

[Jeremy Lundy]

One more thing, I forgot to mention that you can no longwer find model rockets and motors in many toy stores! Every year less and less stores cary them! Here in NY where I live WalMart and KMart dont cary them anymore! No stores do except 1 or 2 hobby shops 25 miles away from eachother. And I live near two LARGE cities! Even when you do find them they are estes pre-built kind in a box with one motor choice C6-7. Try to find a D or E engine in NY is like finding the holy grail to me!!! I hate to say it but if this keep up model rockets will be a memory in the mind of a dying breed. Schools may be the last places to hold out. I could go on but I don't want to get too depressed this early. Thank God for online mail thats all I can say!

 

[Peartree]

We bought a kit of electric/electronic stuff that is a pale shade of a super basic Heathkit set. My boys think that it is super great. I wish Heathkit was still around, I would definitely buy some of that stuff for my kids, neices and nephews.

 

[WillMarchant]

I hate to say it but if this keep up model rockets will be a memory in the mind of a dying breed. Schools may be the last places to hold out.

Hi Jeremy:
I think we all need to try and support the 4-H, Scouting, and CAP rocketry programs. Those reach a lot of youngsters. Combine that with TARC, SLI, CANSAT, and the new Challenger Center contest and we can reach the more motivated kids.
Best wishes,
Will

 

[n5wd]

I was contacted by a TARC team a few weeks ago in order to do their qualifcation flight....

First of all, Pat - thanks for volunteering to be a mentor. Obviously, the kids in your school need a lot of help.

Yes, it does sound as if the teacher has absolutely no experience with rocketry - but, that's probably not that uncommon. I know that several of the science and engineering cohorts throughout Texas have offered instruction in rocketry for teachers - heck, the course last summer at the Texas Tech engineering outreach center even paid for our room and board in addition to the week of learning to play rocketman! I'll be doing their high-power course this summer. And rocketry fits into the curriculum in my engineering class quite well: each of the kids (I've got about 50 students in the three classes) have designed, built, and flown their own for two different design challenges, and put together a Quest Courier egg-lofter as well, so they're definitely getting a bit of hands-on experience.

I'm sponsoring three TARC teams at our school this year, our first in the competition. Luckily, four of my kids had some experience doing TARC a couple of years ago at one of our middle schools, so they were already ready to go this year.

And we've been so blessed to have the mentorship of Jack and Suzi Sprauge, our DARS mentors who've shown up each Monday since we started getting organized last fall.

Two of our three teams flew their first designs last Thursday during spring break - yeah, the deadline's getting close, but after we saw what these two teams did, I've got a lot more confidence that they'll be turning in very acceptable scores. Haven't seen the third team fly - they had other things to do during spring break.

So, good luck to your kids, and everyone else. Just plan on making a bit of room for us on the podium in Virginia!

 

[GuyNoir]

Your experience is not necessarily atypical.

As others pointed out, kids today do not do a lot of hands on things unrelated to athletics. I noticed this first about 10 years ago at a hobby show build. One of the kids there used scissors with the proficiency of my kids back in pre-school.

On the flip side, for every TARC team stumbling around with tools or stability basics, there are those who come to the contest without those skills who do dig into the subject and learn their stuff. The teams I see at the finals (and the one team we mentored up here last year) were smart, inquisitive, engaged and capable young men and women. Their conduct at the finals around some particularly high powered people is exemplary.

So don't give up. Even if your team doesn't get to DC, you're teaching them something important, even if it's simply patience and persistence through your own example. And that one kid who might become a pilot, engineer or just a better educated person is, at least to me, worth the effort.

My thanks to all NAR members who've taken the time to work with these kids; you are doing something VERY important for the NAR and the country.

 

[DAllen]

We bought a kit of electric/electronic stuff that is a pale shade of a super basic Heathkit set. My boys think that it is super great. I wish Heathkit was still around, I would definitely buy some of that stuff for my kids, neices and nephews.

Huh?

https://www.heathkit.com/

:rotflol:

They even sponsored one of the TARC teams I worked with 2 years ago. The kids named their rocket the "Heathkit Hotrod."

-DAllen

 

[SCE to AUX]

If you check their site, they no longer sell the old line of kits so beloved by radio hams and electronics geeks. Their retail stores all closed over a decade ago, and their mail order catalog went away at the same time.

They now sell overpriced technology trainers and curricula for the educational market.

 

[Art Upton]

If you check their site, they no longer sell the old line of kits so beloved by radio hams and electronics geeks. Their retail stores all closed over a decade ago, and their mail order catalog went away at the same time.

They now sell overpriced technology trainers and curricula for the educational market.

I've got an ancient Hero-JR robot down in my Catacombs, seems on the Heathkit website they have a new HE-Robot that works on MicroSoft Robot Studio as a mobile Intel PC.