Multi Stage Saturn V

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External Piping

While I'm not much of a "scale" model rocket guy, I've always thought the external piping on various rockets added visual appeal.

I'm using 1/8" poplar dowels to simulate the external piping.

Two of these are used to prevent rotation between the 1st stage and the 2nd stage, by sliding the dowels into 1/8" launch lug tubing. I was initially just going to use a sleeve between the 1st and 2nd stage internal launch lugs. But only having the torque captured on one side could cause some binding... and might make for an issue at stage separation. Using (2) lugs at 180 degrees apart should balance out the forces. That's my mindsim anyway.

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Nothing wrong with the standard black, but I do like that orange. And it'd make the pieces easy to find in grass. But then, it'd make them hard to find in some other terrain, where green or blue would work better. :dontknow:
 
Nothing wrong with the standard black, but I do like that orange. And it'd make the pieces easy to find in grass. But then, it'd make them hard to find in some other terrain, where green or blue would work better. :dontknow:

I like the orange also... a throwback to Little Joe and the Mercury LES beach abort tests. Fits well with the experimental / test vibe of this rocket.

1676588023157.png 1676588135362.png Alternative Colors.jpg
 
All the colors look good. Green for us Catholics for St. Patrick's Day. Orange for the Irish Protestants. Black for those who want to stick to historical appearances. Blue and Red just look fun. Just fly it!

You're no help at all! :p Decisions man... we need decisions!
 
Orange would sort of match the color scheme of the Moonraker shuttles from the James Bond film.
 
Anybody care to share thoughts on alternative colors?

View attachment 563758
I'm personally a fan of the real scheme and not the alternate colors. IF I were to do something alternate, I might invert the colors so its mostly black with white accents - sort of a bizzaro Sat V. Otherwise I might ditch the white for gray or tan and then use the orange. I think orange and tan/gray look pretty good together. I like the way the Schneider trucks look (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCKjN05ykm_0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD )

But, you do you and I'm sure it will look cool.

Sandy.
 
I'm personally a fan of the real scheme and not the alternate colors. IF I were to do something alternate, I might invert the colors so its mostly black with white accents - sort of a bizzaro Sat V. Otherwise I might ditch the white for gray or tan and then use the orange. I think orange and tan/gray look pretty good together. I like the way the Schneider trucks look (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://schneiderjobs.com/blog/2020-freightliner-cascadia-truck-specs&psig=AOvVaw13pfFAKTrwSCEiywvanv1L&ust=1676679537450000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCKjN05ykm_0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD )

But, you do you and I'm sure it will look cool.

Sandy.

Kind of like Dodge Hellcat colors... I like it. :awesome:

1676593618242.png

Keep those ideas coming fellas...

Alternative Colors.jpg
 
You must do what your heart tells you is right of course, but I think original scheme is best. You have already put such amazing detail into it you might as well stick to the scale theme.
 
I created the alternate orange model in Open Rocket and based on that... Yeah... I guess I'll go black, and never go back... :p

The other colors just don't give the in-flight contrast. I guess those folks at NASA knew what they were doing... :dontknow:

1st Stage - Paint Comparsion.jpg
 
well, kind of a different orange, which tends to change shades over time, but the SLS could be an idea for your next project, if you want to add some parallel staging.

:)

Screenshot 2023-02-17 at 9.45.00 AM.png
 
well, kind of a different orange, which tends to change shades over time, but the SLS could be an idea for your next project, if you want to add some parallel staging.

:)

View attachment 563896

Thanks Glen. Yeah, the SOFI kind of turns to a Red Oxide Primer look as it ages.

I'm kind of burned out on the scale stuff Glen. That's the reason I was toying with a different color scheme for the Saturn V. My Lifting Rocket has the NASA black and white roll pattern, as does my Level One.

I try to steer clear of the "me too" builds... but I couldn't resist the challenge of a 4 stage 12 BP motor Saturn V.

002 Rotated.jpg001.JPG
 
Hey, I forgot all about the lifting rocket! Did that ever fly?
No.

It was flight prepped, chutes packed, motors and igniters installed and ready to take to the launch site... and we decided not to launch because the site conditions were to dry.

Maybe this year. :dontknow:

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Stability Review

I'm doing an overall review to try and get a feel for what a good caliber of stability is for a Saturn V. I decided to review the Apogee Components 1/70th scale Saturn V Rocksim file that is available on their website. They've sold these kits for quite some time and this is a proven stable design.

I used Open Rocket to view the Apogee Rocksim file. The Rocksim file is a crude simulation with nearly no detail whatsoever. Sure, I get the reasoning why, but I just wanted to point out it has only the bare minimum data needed for the program to determine the CP. The model CG is a hard typed input by Apogee.

Per the simulation there is 3.25 ounces (92 grams) of nose weight in the Command Module:
  • The stability of the Apogee Components Saturn V without any motors is 0.816 calibers,
  • The stability of the Apogee Components Saturn V with a G79-14 motor is 0.35 calibers,
  • The Apogee Components Saturn V falls within the base hack recommended 10:1 max length to diameter ratio. The stability of the Apogee Components Saturn V rocket with a G79-14 motor and the base drag hack applied is 2.36 calibers.
Apogee 1-70th Scale no motor.jpgApogee 1-70th Scale w motor .pngApogee 1-70th Scale w motor and Base Drag Hack.png
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The flight ready as built configuration of my multi stage Saturn V is 2.11 calibers, using the base drag hack.


2023-02-20 Saturn V Flight Ready As-Built Simulation.jpg
 
It's all just a Computer Generated Fantasy Land until it faces the ultimate, real world, loaded for bear test...THE SWING TEST! Swing tests rule! Varible CP/CG on each stage makes staging soooo much fun! At least we don't have any stinking mindsiming going on! Do the math and science rules! BIG THRUST ON THE FIRST STAGE! Gorsh dern it, on every stage! Trust in thrust!
 
AcronymDefinition
TMFThe Motley Fool
TMFTurkiye Motosiklet Federasyonu (Turkish: Motorcycle Federation of Turkey)
TMFThe Magnetic Fields (band)
TMFThe Music Factory (TV)
TMFTrinity Mother Frances (hospital; Texas)
TMFTransport Multiplexing Function
TMFTransaction Manager Facility
TMFTrick Mode Flag
TMFTagged Font Metric File
TMFTrace Message Format
TMFToo Many Formals
TMFTelemanagement Forum
TMFTry Me Free
TMFTrial Master File
TMFTerminated Merchant File (credit card systems)
TMFToo Much Fun
TMFTexas Medical Foundation
TMFThermo-Mechanical Fatigue
TMFThe Marketing Forum
TMFThe Music Foundation (various locations)
TMFTug McGraw Foundation (est. 2003)
TMFTivoli Management Framework
TMFTraffic Mitigation Fee (PierPASS, Inc.)
TMFTickling Media Forum
TMFTurquoise Mountain Foundation (Afghanistan)
TMFTransaction Monitoring Facility (Tandem)
TMFThe Minneapolis Foundation (est. 1915)
TMFTable Mountain Facility (JPL)
TMFTemple Mount Faithful
TMFThin Metal Film
TMFTexas Military Forces
TMFTrajectory Management Framework (European air traffic management system)
TMFThird Millennium Foundation (New York)
TMFTropical Moist Forest
TMFTele-Manufacturing Facility
TMFTraffic Management Flight
TMFTurbine Mid Frame
TMFTereza Maxova Foundation (Czech Republic)
TMFThe Mighty Federer (tennis player Roger Federer)
TMFThe Media Fund
TMFTreasury Managed Funds (Australia)
TMFTravelling Magnetic Field
TMFTMN Management Function
TMFThe Molecular Foundry (US Department of Energy; Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory; California)
TMFThrust Management Function
TMF3-Methylfentanyl
TMFTrack Maintenance Foreman (railway track maintenance)
TMFTexture Masking Function
TMFTheater Manpower Force
TMFTotal Metal Flux
TMFThunder Mountain Forces (gaming clan)
TMFTrack Management Function
 
Planning to build a tiny Launch Escape System Assy for this rocket and I am doing some research. Also stumbled upon this feature-length documentary film about the flight of Apollo 11. If you go to the 22 minute mark you can see the 1st-2nd stage separation occur, and then about 20 seconds later you see the LES separation.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
This is an early conceptual painting... that's why the Boost Protective Cover isn't shown.

Launch Escape Tower Painting.jpg
__________________________________________________________________
And here are some additional photo's and data... and a wiki link

KSC Saturn V LES Tower.jpg Launch Escape System Conceptual Painting.jpgLaunch Escape System Cover.jpgLaunch Tower Diagram.png
 
AcronymDefinition
TMFThe Motley Fool
TMFTurkiye Motosiklet Federasyonu (Turkish: Motorcycle Federation of Turkey)
TMFThe Magnetic Fields (band)
TMFThe Music Factory (TV)
TMFTrinity Mother Frances (hospital; Texas)
TMFTransport Multiplexing Function
TMFTransaction Manager Facility
TMFTrick Mode Flag
TMFTagged Font Metric File
TMFTrace Message Format
TMFToo Many Formals
TMFTelemanagement Forum
TMFTry Me Free
TMFTrial Master File
TMFTerminated Merchant File (credit card systems)
TMFToo Much Fun
TMFTexas Medical Foundation
TMFThermo-Mechanical Fatigue
TMFThe Marketing Forum
TMFThe Music Foundation (various locations)
TMFTug McGraw Foundation (est. 2003)
TMFTivoli Management Framework
TMFTraffic Mitigation Fee (PierPASS, Inc.)
TMFTickling Media Forum
TMFTurquoise Mountain Foundation (Afghanistan)
TMFTransaction Monitoring Facility (Tandem)
TMFThe Minneapolis Foundation (est. 1915)
TMFTable Mountain Facility (JPL)
TMFTemple Mount Faithful
TMFThin Metal Film
TMFTexas Military Forces
TMFTrajectory Management Framework (European air traffic management system)
TMFThird Millennium Foundation (New York)
TMFTropical Moist Forest
TMFTele-Manufacturing Facility
TMFTraffic Management Flight
TMFTurbine Mid Frame
TMFTereza Maxova Foundation (Czech Republic)
TMFThe Mighty Federer (tennis player Roger Federer)
TMFThe Media Fund
TMFTreasury Managed Funds (Australia)
TMFTravelling Magnetic Field
TMFTMN Management Function
TMFThe Molecular Foundry (US Department of Energy; Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory; California)
TMFThrust Management Function
TMF3-Methylfentanyl
TMFTrack Maintenance Foreman (railway track maintenance)
TMFTexture Masking Function
TMFTheater Manpower Force
TMFTotal Metal Flux
TMFThunder Mountain Forces (gaming clan)
TMFTrack Management Function
Too Much Fire
 
Planning to build a tiny Launch Escape System Assy for this rocket and I am doing some research. Also stumbled upon this feature-length documentary film about the flight of Apollo 11. If you go to the 22 minute mark you can see the 1st-2nd stage separation occur, and then about 20 seconds later you see the LES separation.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
This is an early conceptual painting... that's why the Boost Protective Cover isn't shown.

View attachment 564797
__________________________________________________________________
And here are some additional photo's and data... and a wiki link

View attachment 564798 View attachment 564799View attachment 564800View attachment 564801

Well, that seems to show about all the detail you'd need. What that be a display detail detachable for launch?
 
Well, that seems to show about all the detail you'd need. What that be a display detail detachable for launch?
Detachable is the plan, but plans may change. The boost protective cover should make it easy to just set it on the rocket for display.

But.. it just won't look the same without it sitting on the pad.
 
Detachable is the plan, but plans may change. The boost protective cover should make it easy to just set it on the rocket for display.

But.. it just won't look the same without it sitting on the pad.
So hear me out…*

I’m thinking a fuse from the first stage ejection charge to MMX motors in the LES tower so that the tower flies away on its own after the first stage drops. Likely to never be found again.

* This is how you can tell it’s a totally reasonable idea. Just like a story that starts “This is no %*^!” Is absolutely accurate in every detail. :D
 
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