Multi Stage Saturn V

[lakeroadster]

External Piping

While I'm not much of a "scale" model rocket guy, I've always thought the external piping on various rockets added visual appeal.

I'm using 1/8" poplar dowels to simulate the external piping.

Two of these are used to prevent rotation between the 1st stage and the 2nd stage, by sliding the dowels into 1/8" launch lug tubing. I was initially just going to use a sleeve between the 1st and 2nd stage internal launch lugs. But only having the torque captured on one side could cause some binding... and might make for an issue at stage separation. Using (2) lugs at 180 degrees apart should balance out the forces. That's my mindsim anyway.

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[lakeroadster]

Anybody care to share thoughts on alternative colors?

 

[jqavins]

Nothing wrong with the standard black, but I do like that orange. And it'd make the pieces easy to find in grass. But then, it'd make them hard to find in some other terrain, where green or blue would work better.

 

[lakeroadster]

Nothing wrong with the standard black, but I do like that orange. And it'd make the pieces easy to find in grass. But then, it'd make them hard to find in some other terrain, where green or blue would work better.

I like the orange also... a throwback to Little Joe and the Mercury LES beach abort tests. Fits well with the experimental / test vibe of this rocket.

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[Steve Shannon]

All the colors look good. Green for us Catholics for St. Patrick's Day. Orange for the Irish Protestants. Black for those who want to stick to historical appearances. Blue and Red just look fun. Just fly it!

 

[lakeroadster]

All the colors look good. Green for us Catholics for St. Patrick's Day. Orange for the Irish Protestants. Black for those who want to stick to historical appearances. Blue and Red just look fun. Just fly it!

You're no help at all! Decisions man... we need decisions!

 

[GlenP]

Orange would sort of match the color scheme of the Moonraker shuttles from the James Bond film.

 

[Sandy H.]

Anybody care to share thoughts on alternative colors?

View attachment 563758

I'm personally a fan of the real scheme and not the alternate colors. IF I were to do something alternate, I might invert the colors so its mostly black with white accents - sort of a bizzaro Sat V. Otherwise I might ditch the white for gray or tan and then use the orange. I think orange and tan/gray look pretty good together. I like the way the Schneider trucks look (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCKjN05ykm_0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD )

But, you do you and I'm sure it will look cool.

Sandy.

 

[lakeroadster]

I'm personally a fan of the real scheme and not the alternate colors. IF I were to do something alternate, I might invert the colors so its mostly black with white accents - sort of a bizzaro Sat V. Otherwise I might ditch the white for gray or tan and then use the orange. I think orange and tan/gray look pretty good together. I like the way the Schneider trucks look (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://schneiderjobs.com/blog/2020-freightliner-cascadia-truck-specs&psig=AOvVaw13pfFAKTrwSCEiywvanv1L&ust=1676679537450000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCKjN05ykm_0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD )

But, you do you and I'm sure it will look cool.

Sandy.

Kind of like Dodge Hellcat colors... I like it.

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Keep those ideas coming fellas...

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[lakeroadster]

Orange would sort of match the color scheme of the Moonraker shuttles from the James Bond film.

Sweet... Everything old is new again!

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[Sparkyflyer14]

You must do what your heart tells you is right of course, but I think original scheme is best. You have already put such amazing detail into it you might as well stick to the scale theme.

 

[GlenP]

Sweet... Everything old is new again!

View attachment 563772​

Dr Zooch version here:

Dr. Zooch Return To Flight Space Shuttle build thread- #2

First off, further thought on the low rider orbiter issue- I volunteer to do the "kid's rocket bucket" at Red Glare. This is where any kid coming to see the show, most of whom have never launched a rocket before, can just come to the Zooch booth, select a rocket from the MDRA club bucket, and I...

www.rocketryforum.com

 

[lakeroadster]

I created the alternate orange model in Open Rocket and based on that... Yeah... I guess I'll go black, and never go back...

The other colors just don't give the in-flight contrast. I guess those folks at NASA knew what they were doing...

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[GlenP]

well, kind of a different orange, which tends to change shades over time, but the SLS could be an idea for your next project, if you want to add some parallel staging.

 

[lakeroadster]

well, kind of a different orange, which tends to change shades over time, but the SLS could be an idea for your next project, if you want to add some parallel staging.



View attachment 563896

Thanks Glen. Yeah, the SOFI kind of turns to a Red Oxide Primer look as it ages.

I'm kind of burned out on the scale stuff Glen. That's the reason I was toying with a different color scheme for the Saturn V. My Lifting Rocket has the NASA black and white roll pattern, as does my Level One.

I try to steer clear of the "me too" builds... but I couldn't resist the challenge of a 4 stage 12 BP motor Saturn V.

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[jqavins]

Hey, I forgot all about the lifting rocket! Did that ever fly?

 

[lakeroadster]

Hey, I forgot all about the lifting rocket! Did that ever fly?

No.

It was flight prepped, chutes packed, motors and igniters installed and ready to take to the launch site... and we decided not to launch because the site conditions were to dry.

Maybe this year.

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[lakeroadster]

Stability Review

I'm doing an overall review to try and get a feel for what a good caliber of stability is for a Saturn V. I decided to review the Apogee Components 1/70th scale Saturn V Rocksim file that is available on their website. They've sold these kits for quite some time and this is a proven stable design.

I used Open Rocket to view the Apogee Rocksim file. The Rocksim file is a crude simulation with nearly no detail whatsoever. Sure, I get the reasoning why, but I just wanted to point out it has only the bare minimum data needed for the program to determine the CP. The model CG is a hard typed input by Apogee.

Per the simulation there is 3.25 ounces (92 grams) of nose weight in the Command Module:

• The stability of the Apogee Components Saturn V without any motors is 0.816 calibers,
• The stability of the Apogee Components Saturn V with a G79-14 motor is 0.35 calibers,
• The Apogee Components Saturn V falls within the base hack recommended 10:1 max length to diameter ratio. The stability of the Apogee Components Saturn V rocket with a G79-14 motor and the base drag hack applied is 2.36 calibers.

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_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The flight ready as built configuration of my multi stage Saturn V is 2.11 calibers, using the base drag hack.

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[Daddyisabar]

It's all just a Computer Generated Fantasy Land until it faces the ultimate, real world, loaded for bear test...THE SWING TEST! Swing tests rule! Varible CP/CG on each stage makes staging soooo much fun! At least we don't have any stinking mindsiming going on! Do the math and science rules! BIG THRUST ON THE FIRST STAGE! Gorsh dern it, on every stage! Trust in thrust!

 

[Long_Gone]

TMF!!!!!

 

[lakeroadster]

TMF!!!!!

Acronym	Definition
TMF	The Motley Fool
TMF	Turkiye Motosiklet Federasyonu (Turkish: Motorcycle Federation of Turkey)
TMF	The Magnetic Fields (band)
TMF	The Music Factory (TV)
TMF	Trinity Mother Frances (hospital; Texas)
TMF	Transport Multiplexing Function
TMF	Transaction Manager Facility
TMF	Trick Mode Flag
TMF	Tagged Font Metric File
TMF	Trace Message Format
TMF	Too Many Formals
TMF	Telemanagement Forum
TMF	Try Me Free
TMF	Trial Master File
TMF	Terminated Merchant File (credit card systems)
TMF	Too Much Fun
TMF	Texas Medical Foundation
TMF	Thermo-Mechanical Fatigue
TMF	The Marketing Forum
TMF	The Music Foundation (various locations)
TMF	Tug McGraw Foundation (est. 2003)
TMF	Tivoli Management Framework
TMF	Traffic Mitigation Fee (PierPASS, Inc.)
TMF	Tickling Media Forum
TMF	Turquoise Mountain Foundation (Afghanistan)
TMF	Transaction Monitoring Facility (Tandem)
TMF	The Minneapolis Foundation (est. 1915)
TMF	Table Mountain Facility (JPL)
TMF	Temple Mount Faithful
TMF	Thin Metal Film
TMF	Texas Military Forces
TMF	Trajectory Management Framework (European air traffic management system)
TMF	Third Millennium Foundation (New York)
TMF	Tropical Moist Forest
TMF	Tele-Manufacturing Facility
TMF	Traffic Management Flight
TMF	Turbine Mid Frame
TMF	Tereza Maxova Foundation (Czech Republic)
TMF	The Mighty Federer (tennis player Roger Federer)
TMF	The Media Fund
TMF	Treasury Managed Funds (Australia)
TMF	Travelling Magnetic Field
TMF	TMN Management Function
TMF	The Molecular Foundry (US Department of Energy; Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory; California)
TMF	Thrust Management Function
TMF	3-Methylfentanyl
TMF	Track Maintenance Foreman (railway track maintenance)
TMF	Texture Masking Function
TMF	Theater Manpower Force
TMF	Total Metal Flux
TMF	Thunder Mountain Forces (gaming clan)
TMF	Track Management Function

 

[Antares JS]

Anybody care to share thoughts on alternative colors?

View attachment 563758

See #1

 

[lakeroadster]

See #1

View attachment 564738

It wouldn't be my 1st "paddlin'"...

 

[Daddyisabar]

It wouldn't be my 1st "paddlin'"...

At least you didn't say "GO BIG OR GO HOME!"

 

[lakeroadster]

Planning to build a tiny Launch Escape System Assy for this rocket and I am doing some research. Also stumbled upon this feature-length documentary film about the flight of Apollo 11. If you go to the 22 minute mark you can see the 1st-2nd stage separation occur, and then about 20 seconds later you see the LES separation.

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____________________________________________________________________________________________
This is an early conceptual painting... that's why the Boost Protective Cover isn't shown.


__________________________________________________________________
And here are some additional photo's and data... and a wiki link

 

[Long_Gone]

Acronym	Definition
TMF	The Motley Fool
TMF	Turkiye Motosiklet Federasyonu (Turkish: Motorcycle Federation of Turkey)
TMF	The Magnetic Fields (band)
TMF	The Music Factory (TV)
TMF	Trinity Mother Frances (hospital; Texas)
TMF	Transport Multiplexing Function
TMF	Transaction Manager Facility
TMF	Trick Mode Flag
TMF	Tagged Font Metric File
TMF	Trace Message Format
TMF	Too Many Formals
TMF	Telemanagement Forum
TMF	Try Me Free
TMF	Trial Master File
TMF	Terminated Merchant File (credit card systems)
TMF	Too Much Fun
TMF	Texas Medical Foundation
TMF	Thermo-Mechanical Fatigue
TMF	The Marketing Forum
TMF	The Music Foundation (various locations)
TMF	Tug McGraw Foundation (est. 2003)
TMF	Tivoli Management Framework
TMF	Traffic Mitigation Fee (PierPASS, Inc.)
TMF	Tickling Media Forum
TMF	Turquoise Mountain Foundation (Afghanistan)
TMF	Transaction Monitoring Facility (Tandem)
TMF	The Minneapolis Foundation (est. 1915)
TMF	Table Mountain Facility (JPL)
TMF	Temple Mount Faithful
TMF	Thin Metal Film
TMF	Texas Military Forces
TMF	Trajectory Management Framework (European air traffic management system)
TMF	Third Millennium Foundation (New York)
TMF	Tropical Moist Forest
TMF	Tele-Manufacturing Facility
TMF	Traffic Management Flight
TMF	Turbine Mid Frame
TMF	Tereza Maxova Foundation (Czech Republic)
TMF	The Mighty Federer (tennis player Roger Federer)
TMF	The Media Fund
TMF	Treasury Managed Funds (Australia)
TMF	Travelling Magnetic Field
TMF	TMN Management Function
TMF	The Molecular Foundry (US Department of Energy; Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory; California)
TMF	Thrust Management Function
TMF	3-Methylfentanyl
TMF	Track Maintenance Foreman (railway track maintenance)
TMF	Texture Masking Function
TMF	Theater Manpower Force
TMF	Total Metal Flux
TMF	Thunder Mountain Forces (gaming clan)
TMF	Track Management Function

Too Much Fire

 

[lakeroadster]

Too Much Fire

Blasphemy!

 

[jqavins]

Planning to build a tiny Launch Escape System Assy for this rocket and I am doing some research. Also stumbled upon this feature-length documentary film about the flight of Apollo 11. If you go to the 22 minute mark you can see the 1st-2nd stage separation occur, and then about 20 seconds later you see the LES separation.

​

____________________________________________________________________________________________
This is an early conceptual painting... that's why the Boost Protective Cover isn't shown.

View attachment 564797
__________________________________________________________________
And here are some additional photo's and data... and a wiki link

View attachment 564798 View attachment 564799 View attachment 564800 View attachment 564801

Well, that seems to show about all the detail you'd need. What that be a display detail detachable for launch?

 

[lakeroadster]

Well, that seems to show about all the detail you'd need. What that be a display detail detachable for launch?

Detachable is the plan, but plans may change. The boost protective cover should make it easy to just set it on the rocket for display.

But.. it just won't look the same without it sitting on the pad.

 

[boatgeek]

Detachable is the plan, but plans may change. The boost protective cover should make it easy to just set it on the rocket for display.

But.. it just won't look the same without it sitting on the pad.

So hear me out…*

I’m thinking a fuse from the first stage ejection charge to MMX motors in the LES tower so that the tower flies away on its own after the first stage drops. Likely to never be found again.

* This is how you can tell it’s a totally reasonable idea. Just like a story that starts “This is no %*^!” Is absolutely accurate in every detail.