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manixFan

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The link shows up as a login screen. It is on the prefects forum on the TRA website.


Tony
 

cerving

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The Official notice...


From: no-reply@tripoli.org <no-reply@tripoli.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2020 6:01 PM
Subject: [TRA Prefects Forum] Rule revision regarding wireless remote switches October 2020


A message was posted to Prefects Forum, on the Tripoli member's forum.


Gerald Meux Jr Posted:18 Oct 2020 10:00 AMSubject: Rule revision regarding wireless remote switches October 2020

In February 2020, the Tripoli BoD adopted a rule requiring a physical disconnection from power for any electronics controlling energetics. At the time they felt this was required by NFPA 1127. After further discussion during its September meeting, the board of directors has concluded that additional physical disconnects are not required and the February 2020 rule has been canceled.

The rule requiring that energetics and firing circuits be inhibited until the rocket is in firing position remains in place.

Thanks,
Gerald Meux


To view the complete thread and reply, please visit: http://www.tripoli.org/Forums/aft/619
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Thank you, Tripoli Rocketry Association
 

manixFan

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Thanks for posting that. I know the thread heading is a bit cryptic but I figured someone from TRA might also post about it. I’m no longer a prefect so I was a little obtuse about it. But anyone who followed the thread announcing the original decision will understand how I feel!

I sincerely appreciate the TRA board revisiting their decision. Thanks to the TRA board.


Tony
 

rharshberger

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Funny it took TRA so long to announce the change to the public, I received notice of it from my clubs Prefect on Oct 1, and TRA posted it to FB yesterday.
 

timbucktoo

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Funny it took TRA so long to announce the change to the public, I received notice of it from my clubs Prefect on Oct 1, and TRA posted it to FB yesterday.
TRA only made it public on their website yesterday.
 

Charles_McG

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Praise be. Hopefully NAR will follow suit and I won’t worry anymore with my Protons if I’ve remembered to turn on deployment power - because they read closed circuit with deployment power off.
 

timbucktoo

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Praise be. Hopefully NAR will follow suit and I won’t worry anymore with my Protons if I’ve remembered to turn on deployment power - because they read closed circuit with deployment power off.
I will see if I can find the newsletter with their official statement but they were careful in their wording and didn't say you were required to use a switch but something like "recommended".
 

Charles_McG

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I understand that with greater risk, better controls should be in place. And ‘recommended’ is fine.
But I, personally, fly G-H impulse and sub gram charges, which seems to me to be at the low end of the HPR risk scale.
 

ksaves2

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Sooooooo, Does that mean I am perfectly legal with wiring up my charges, plugging in the battery and indeed the Featherweight switch defaults to “on” and I swipe the magnet immediately to turn it off? Or is that still a “no-no”?
Same thing with my Eggtimer TRS. I plug in the battery with charges attached and swipe to turn off at the bench before taking it out to the pad. Mind you with newly built or obtained deployment products I test them with contained ematches without powder to be certain I can plug the battery in, turn off the mag switch without any anomalies occurring. I also do the test with contained ematches before every flight to make sure the electronics perform the turn on/off process nominally before every flight.
Look, I usually do a “one shot” deal. Fly the rocket, turn off the deployment electronics after recovery and go on and fly another rocket. Too much of a pain in the a$$ to re-prep an already flown rocket for another flight. I‘d rather have several rockets pre-prepped and ready to go to fly as many as possible during a flying session. It’s easy to do the safety checks when getting ready for the next launch down the road.
With minimum diameter rockets it can be difficult to have an external switch outside of twist and tape. Easier to have the charges in place and use a Mag switch to activate at the pad. Connect the battery at the prep area, usually the back of my SUV, turn the Mag switch off and get ready to go to the pad.
If there has been a change in the rules, great. If not well, will try to get by or maybe retire a bunch of rockets.

Kurt Savegnago
 

cerving

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Remote arming is now considered to be "inhibited", as it was prior to the rule change. However, since the TRS does not have remote DISARMING, we recommend a switch on the deployment power so you can shut it off in case you have to take the rocket off the rack. The Quantum and Proton DO have remote disarming, plus a built-in switch for the deployment power that is not activated until launch-detect, so they do not require an external switch (which was the original TRA position).

If you read the TRA rule change, " additional physical disconnects are not required and the February 2020 rule has been canceled" pretty much says it all. Off is off... regardless of what interrupts the current flow.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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Awesome! I didn't do anything about retrofitting my egg timers with switches, because by the time the rule was announced, we were in lockdown, and all my launches were canceled, and I'm never one to take advantage of downtime to get things done. My "life-hack" of putting things off to the very last minute has worked yet again! Woohoo!
 

ttabbal

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Nice! I'm in the middle of a small build and finding a way to get the switch mounted was bugging me. I really like the Quantum and Proton and think they are plenty safe with the two level switching required to trigger. Of course, between fire danger and virus danger there haven't been any launches lately, but I'm sure we'll get there eventually.
 

Wayco

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I'm glad that the Tripoli board members I voted for fixed this problem. Now I can fly all 24 of my high power rockets with magnetic switches at Tripoli launches again. I did build a couple of rockets with pull pin switches, but the Frenzy XL I'm building now will be with the new and improved Featherweight mag. switches.
 

Tobor

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Hmm, I never received a Tripoli email announcement regarding this reversal.

Anyhoot, I'm glad I procrastinated finishing my MC Pike build... :p
 

sl98

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Praise be. Hopefully NAR will follow suit and I won’t worry anymore with my Protons if I’ve remembered to turn on deployment power - because they read closed circuit with deployment power off.
One might argue that NAR never prohibited electronic switches in the first place. In the March 2020 Electronic Rocketeer, NAR states in part:

WiFi or magnetic non-contact switches should be backed up with physical breaks in either the power or energetic circuits whenever the rocket is being transported, handled, or inspected. Rocket preparation areas, vehicles, and check-in areas can be electromagnetically "noisy" areas that can increase the possibility of an inadvertent firing circuit or energetic operation.

"Should be" sounds more like a recommendation than a mandate.
 

Banzai88

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"Should be" sounds more like a recommendation than a mandate.
Never thought I would say it, but I sometimes miss the LACK of ambiguity in military manuals that use the terms SHALL, MAY, and MUST, and the attendant definitions provided for such.
 
Last edited:

Steve Shannon

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One might argue that NAR never prohibited electronic switches in the first place. In the March 2020 Electronic Rocketeer, NAR states in part:

WiFi or magnetic non-contact switches should be backed up with physical breaks in either the power or energetic circuits whenever the rocket is being transported, handled, or inspected. Rocket preparation areas, vehicles, and check-in areas can be electromagnetically "noisy" areas that can increase the possibility of an inadvertent firing circuit or energetic operation.

"Should be" sounds more like a recommendation than a mandate.
It was a recommendation for NAR. Neither organization prohibited electronic switches. Tripoli required that they be disconnected from power until after inspection. NAR never did.
Now Tripoli doesn’t.
 

Rob702Martinez

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I just ordered a ton of those fingertech switches too.:rolleyes:

BTW have to repost this as I saw it in the original thread. Too good to let this one go...
Twist.jpg
 

Rob702Martinez

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But now I can resume ordering eggtimer wifi switches and using protons and quantums!!!
 

dvdsnyd

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Remote arming is now considered to be "inhibited", as it was prior to the rule change. However, since the TRS does not have remote DISARMING, we recommend a switch on the deployment power so you can shut it off in case you have to take the rocket off the rack. The Quantum and Proton DO have remote disarming, plus a built-in switch for the deployment power that is not activated until launch-detect, so they do not require an external switch (which was the original TRA position).

If you read the TRA rule change, " additional physical disconnects are not required and the February 2020 rule has been canceled" pretty much says it all. Off is off... regardless of what interrupts the current flow.
Cris,
Is remote disarming on the roadmap of the TRS?
 

cerving

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Hopefully... it's not a simple as it is with the WiFi stuff, because once you arm it the TRS is no longer "listening" to the LCD receiver.
 

g.pitts

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What a cluster this whole thing has been. I trust that TRA internal processes will be looked at to ensure that decisions are better vetted before rollout in the future. Just my $0.02.
 

HHaase

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On a lighter note......

The whole discussion did get me to start re-examining how I handle my electronics mounting though, and my next generation of avionics bays are going to be a lot better for it. Still a few things to refine but the core concept I'm moving to is quite solid.

-Hans
 

Charles_McG

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The whole discussion did get me to start re-examining how I handle my electronics mounting though, and my next generation of avionics bays are going to be a lot better for it. Still a few things to refine but the core concept I'm moving to is quite solid.
I examined my preflight setup as a result, and changed a couple of things for the better. (I believe.)
 
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