Moveable fins or canards for active stabilization?

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diyaerospace

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Hi,
For my latest project, I have decided to try active stabilization with fin control. I started with some research and found movable canards at the front of the vehicle and moveable fins at the back are the most common approaches. I was wondering which design would work best? My aim for this project is to keep all 3 axes stable and keep the rocket vertical relative to the gravity vector. I would use 4 nine gram micro servos to control the fin surfaces and an IMU with a complementary filter to get accurate angle measurements. Does anyone have any advice for me, and do you think canards or moveable fins would work best for controlling this vehicle?

Thanks!

Here are some basic designs for each control surface.
 

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Hi,
For my latest project, I have decided to try active stabilization with fin control. I started with some research and found movable canards at the front of the vehicle and moveable fins at the back are the most common approaches. I was wondering which design would work best? My aim for this project is to keep all 3 axes stable and keep the rocket vertical relative to the gravity vector. I would use 4 nine gram micro servos to control the fin surfaces and an IMU with a complementary filter to get accurate angle measurements. Does anyone have any advice for me, and do you think canards or moveable fins would work best for controlling this vehicle?

Thanks!

Here are some basic designs for each control surface.
I've been working on such a system for a while now. It's been a lot of fun to do, and you'll enjoy it as well (altough it will be more difficult than you think).

One of my objectives has been to develop a reasonably reliable system for vertical flight for high-power rockets. As suggested, you can review my "guidance" thread to see how things evolved. A second objective was/is to promote the use of this technique and for more recketeers to give it a go. I'm giving a presentation at TRATECH at LDRS on the topic next week. And of course, my third objective has been to do some cool maneuvers at a relatively slow speed. ;)

Jim

 
While this is really cool. Once steerable fin electronics exist, I'd like to use them going down.

My rockets go straight up just fine. It would be cooler if they could target an area to fly back to, on the way down, ballistic. And pop the drogue late in the last seconds, then the main.

Extra points, not ballistic: No lower shock cord. Let the rocket split in half. Giving the boosters top, and the payloads bottom, spring loaded deployable grid fins. Each flys back to the target and pops its own chutes.
 
While this is really cool. Once steerable fin electronics exist, I'd like to use them going down.

My rockets go straight up just fine. It would be cooler if they could target an area to fly back to, on the way down, ballistic. And pop the drogue late in the last seconds, then the main.

Extra points, not ballistic: No lower shock cord. Let the rocket split in half. Giving the boosters top, and the payloads bottom, spring loaded deployable grid fins. Each flys back to the target and pops its own chutes.
You can only use vertical trajectory stability control.
However desirable targeted recovery might be, some fool would do something stupid. That would then result in knee jerk legal repercussions for everyone.
 
While this is really cool. Once steerable fin electronics exist, I'd like to use them going down.

My rockets go straight up just fine. It would be cooler if they could target an area to fly back to, on the way down, ballistic. And pop the drogue late in the last seconds, then the main.

Extra points, not ballistic: No lower shock cord. Let the rocket split in half. Giving the boosters top, and the payloads bottom, spring loaded deployable grid fins. Each flys back to the target and pops its own chutes.

Someone posted a great steerable parachute thread that used some AI to return to the launch site. I cannot remember the terms used to find it. EDIT: Here it is: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...stem-for-rocketry-and-weather-balloon.162520/
 
If it's just a rocket, it's just a rocket. Is there an actual FAA restriction on high powered rockets doing such?

Eta: yeah the Apogee steerable chute could be really cool.
 
If it's just a rocket, it's just a rocket. Is there an actual FAA restriction on high powered rockets doing such?

Eta: yeah the Apogee steerable chute could be really cool.
It's just a rocket...... At what point does that end. 100gm? 200gm?
400gm? 2Kg? 10kg? 100Kg? I feel you need to take a step back and think it through. Start with what is the worst thing that could possibly happen and work your way back from there. Hoping it wont get missused is like walking into a 6 lane freeway without looking and hoping a vehicle wont hit you. You need to be looking in every direction possible before doing that and listening too.
The ONLY way I could see this being allowed would be with geofencing implemented. So targeted recovery could only be used at approved launch sites. Black Rock as an example.
Anything less is an accident looking for a place to happen.
 
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Look what has happened with drones. Had they been our rockets, we'd no longer be able to fly. Probably the only reason drones didn't suffer that fate was the tens of thousands (guessing) who fly them (USA). But even then it spilled over and seriously messed with RC flying which has a good record over lots of decades. It wasn't worth the effort to distinguish between a drone and an RC plane.

Self-driving cars are of course much more of a risk, or self driving trucks. But they have even bigger backers.

We do not.

We have a very low profile hobby. Most do not know about this sort of flying. We haven't caused problems, or made the news. So we're politically uninteresting.

Let's not change that! If we did, all it takes is a stroke of a pen by some bureaucrat and no more waivers. End of hobby.

Guiding anything other than essentially straight up could quickly become a problem. Lots of three letter agencies might get a bit too interested. It doesn't matter if we might win a court case. It might take 10 years to do so. The hobby would be dead before then.

Just my opinion of course.

Heck, I'd be interested in a project to go out of the atmosphere, compute and carry out a course correction to compensate for wind effects measured on the way up, and make a controlled course correction before reentry to re-center on the landing zone. Just a little space maneuver, perhaps just using cold thrusters. Will I try it? No.

Gerald
 
One issue I see with just steering with fins or canards is when the rocket is first starting to launch. Unless you continue to use a rail or rod for initial guidance until the rocket is up to speed, I think there will be some wild sky writing
 
Other than making canards move so they do not impact the CP as much as they likely would I do not have experience with dynamic control. However, it would seem that forward fins would be much more sensitive and prone to over-steering. Maybe you should start with rearward or mid-body fins with control surfaces (whole fins does not need to move).

I have created a bunch of models of real-world missiles that were quite difficult to turn into model rockets due to inherent lack of stability -- CP was not very far back so they needed lots of nose weight. Anyway, my understanding is that most missiles are designed to be relatively unstable so that guidance systems can more easily adjust their course. I think it is difficult to control a very stable rocket. This will create some additional complexity here since you will be working with a marginally stable rocket to start with.

I recommend looking at the Boost gliders since there are so many proven models that can be steered -- both on the way up as well as on the way down. Maybe once you have created a few of them you can explore the forward canard fins for control.
 
Having the canards at the front means they can be small and still introduce enough force to be effective. Based in my experience you will be surprised how small they can be and how little throw angle is needed to be effective. It is very easy to overdo it and end up with a high system gain and oscillatory behaviour.

When you design them make sure you don't degrade your static stability too far or you are asking for trouble. Also think through possible outcomes for non-nominal flights and make sure outcomes are always safe. I do that in my system by not actively steering till after burnout. That way if anything bad happens the rocket will be up in the air and traveling away from the flight line. Carefully consider your system from a safety perspective, however you design it.
 
I apologize; I haven't read very much of this thread. So this post may be redundant or addressing well known issues.

Suggestions:

1) Limit the canard's maximum angle of attack to just a few degrees, no more than perhaps 6 and probably less (avoid discontinuities in the lift vs angle of attack due to changes in flow characteristics), so the flow stays fairly 2D rather than being more 3D. That will minimize complex canard-fin interactions that can cause things like control reversal, and other nonlinearities in control response.

Besides, it is more efficient to persuade the rocket to go roughly straight than to brute force bash it straight. Retained energy is a lot higher being gentle with the maneuvers.

Low control surface throw also reduces control overshoot and similar issues due to the lag between maneuver initiation and subsequent control surface correction. Because of this lag, it is easy to generate maneuvering algorithms that when coupled with an actual flight vehicle, result in oscillatory flight. The lag is primarily due to (a) insufficient sample rate (b) control surface rates of motion (c) moments of inertia. Note (c) is quite different in the roll axis than pitch and yaw, for rockets. Roll response to control system input will be much more rapid than the other axis.

2) Put the pivot of the canard near the neutral point for the canard. For instance, for subsonic flight with symmetric airfoils, that is around 25% of the MAC (Mean Aerodynamic Chord). NOT near the middle! If supersonic, that point may move a little bit, +/-, depending on mach number. Putting the pivot very near the neutral point reduces the holding force to near zero, cutting a lot of mechanical load out of the servo system.

3) Since we are trying to achieve essentially a rate of correction that is consistent irrespective of speed, have the gain reduce as velocity increases.

4) Beware Nyquist limits! For instance the sample rate on the roll sensor needs to be such that at least two samples are obtained for each revolution of the airframe, or the simplest form of the math will conclude the rocket is rolling in the reverse direction, causing all sorts of control fun! The roll axis is of course the one with the most rapid maneuvering potential since the moment of inertia about that axis is smallest. You need a high sample rate on the sensors. If you can't get that, then need something like roll lockout if detecting roll that might be approaching Nyquist limits, or significant rates on any other axis. Lock out for a few seconds to allow the vehicle to stabilize itself, then resume control.

5) Be very careful to use an airfoil on the canard which has minimized deadband. If not, the control algorithm (1st order approximation; it is way more complex than this) needs to have a region +/- the neutral control position which it essentially skips over to initiate maneuvers or corrections. I would also advise to increase the stability margin of the rocket if a minimum deadband airfoil is not being used for the canards.

6) Design the control system for full servo travel to achieve full designed control surface deflection. This does two desirable things. (a) Increases the available torque for moving or resisting motion of the control surface. (2) Helps prevent outrunning your sensor system due to initiating maneuvers too abruptly.

Gerald
 
Thanks for your replies!
I apologize; I haven't read very much of this thread. So this post may be redundant or addressing well known issues.

Suggestions:

1) Limit the canard's maximum angle of attack to just a few degrees, no more than perhaps 6 and probably less (avoid discontinuities in the lift vs angle of attack due to changes in flow characteristics), so the flow stays fairly 2D rather than being more 3D. That will minimize complex canard-fin interactions that can cause things like control reversal, and other nonlinearities in control response.

Besides, it is more efficient to persuade the rocket to go roughly straight than to brute force bash it straight. Retained energy is a lot higher being gentle with the maneuvers.

Low control surface throw also reduces control overshoot and similar issues due to the lag between maneuver initiation and subsequent control surface correction. Because of this lag, it is easy to generate maneuvering algorithms that when coupled with an actual flight vehicle, result in oscillatory flight. The lag is primarily due to (a) insufficient sample rate (b) control surface rates of motion (c) moments of inertia. Note (c) is quite different in the roll axis than pitch and yaw, for rockets. Roll response to control system input will be much more rapid than the other axis.

2) Put the pivot of the canard near the neutral point for the canard. For instance, for subsonic flight with symmetric airfoils, that is around 25% of the MAC (Mean Aerodynamic Chord). NOT near the middle! If supersonic, that point may move a little bit, +/-, depending on mach number. Putting the pivot very near the neutral point reduces the holding force to near zero, cutting a lot of mechanical load out of the servo system.

3) Since we are trying to achieve essentially a rate of correction that is consistent irrespective of speed, have the gain reduce as velocity increases.

4) Beware Nyquist limits! For instance the sample rate on the roll sensor needs to be such that at least two samples are obtained for each revolution of the airframe, or the simplest form of the math will conclude the rocket is rolling in the reverse direction, causing all sorts of control fun! The roll axis is of course the one with the most rapid maneuvering potential since the moment of inertia about that axis is smallest. You need a high sample rate on the sensors. If you can't get that, then need something like roll lockout if detecting roll that might be approaching Nyquist limits, or significant rates on any other axis. Lock out for a few seconds to allow the vehicle to stabilize itself, then resume control.

5) Be very careful to use an airfoil on the canard which has minimized deadband. If not, the control algorithm (1st order approximation; it is way more complex than this) needs to have a region +/- the neutral control position which it essentially skips over to initiate maneuvers or corrections. I would also advise to increase the stability margin of the rocket if a minimum deadband airfoil is not being used for the canards.

6) Design the control system for full servo travel to achieve full designed control surface deflection. This does two desirable things. (a) Increases the available torque for moving or resisting motion of the control surface. (2) Helps prevent outrunning your sensor system due to initiating maneuvers too abruptly.

Gerald
Thank you for your detailed reply!
I plan on using a PID algorithm to stabilize my rocket. If I tune it correctly and get the servo response times shouldn't I be able to avoid "outrunning my sensor system"
Also because a PID algorithm corrects error while factoring in differing control forces wouldn't that make having the gain reduction as the velocity increases become obsolete because the controller would compensate for increasing control forces with each degree of deflection simply by lowering the deflection?
I don't have a very good understanding of control systems so please correct me if I am wrong :p

2) I plan on using 9 gram micro servos for this, would they be strong enough? The rocket's estimated max speed is 150 mph.
 
Garbage-in, garbage-out. What is your sensor sample rate? What is your servo control lag? What is the computational processing lag? The servo response rate won't be as important, as you will be having response proportional to deviation and the rocket won't instantaneously deviate from desired orientation.

There is no simple answer to the question on servos being strong enough. It will depend on the mechanical advantage of your system, where the pivot point might be on your canards, slop or lack of it in the control system, stiction, even control deadband can have an effect. If your servo would suffice for the tail surfaces of a hotliner, then it is probably fine.

You REALLY want to test your servos for deadband, and inconsistent centering. And IMHO if it doesn't have a bearing on the output shaft I wouldn't use it. If you can wiggle the output shaft I wouldn't use it. Ditto any gear train known to fail easily. You'd rather stall the servo in this use case than strip a gear! A stalled servo might recover. A stripped gear will not end well. Also a sloppy geartrain is to be avoided.

That's generic advice of course. The same sort of advice I'd give for using a servo in, say, an RC Jet, or any other high performance aircraft.

Gerald
 
Moveable aero surfaces are only going to help you on the way up, so making sure that your rocket stays within a given tilt cone makes sense. Anything else is going to be a violation of TRA/NAR rules anyway (think 20 degree limt). The Apogee steerable chute will be interesting, if/when it gets released. Geofencing is probably a really good idea... but it has to be smart enough to know where the flight line is, so it doesn't steer right into it.
 
The potential problem is someone uses it to deliver a "package" to some "destination". Not one of the hobby rocket fliers at a hobby rocket launch. Geofencing won't prevent the former and might not be of much benefit to the latter. A better approach than geofencing might be to provide primary and secondary landing zones. Secondary is behind the flight line a ways, to be used only if the primary is unachievable. That will accomplish avoiding the flight line, to the extent the device is capable of doing so.

Gerald
 
Deadband is the region around zero servo setting where a small control input is essentially ignored. That is a bit different than hysterisis which also needs to be considered in a control system. Hysterisis is the control input required to generate an output motion in the opposite direction, and for our purposes probably doesn't depend on position.

Digital systems might not have the same behavior as analog systems.

I forgot to mention that the servo testing needs to be done under moderate load. Sometimes the results are quite different than for unloaded testing.

Gerald
 
Deadband is the region around zero servo setting where a small control input is essentially ignored. That is a bit different than hysterisis which also needs to be considered in a control system. Hysterisis is the control input required to generate an output motion in the opposite direction, and for our purposes probably doesn't depend on position.

Digital systems might not have the same behavior as analog systems.

I forgot to mention that the servo testing needs to be done under moderate load. Sometimes the results are quite different than for unloaded testing.

Gerald
Thanks,
Do you know how to find the deadband and neutral point in an airfoil?
 
Airfoils also have deadband and neutral point. The neutral point can be a function of angle of attack, Reynolds number, and certainly Mach number. The deadband is a function of Reynolds number and Mach number. So, there is no simple single answer.

Yes, by either looking at wind tunnel data for the appropriate Reynolds number range, or carrying out simulation. A tool such as XFLR5 which is IIRC under the GPL license can be used. User experience of course is quite helpful.

If going transonic or supersonic, it will be hard to find appropriate wind tunnel data.

Gerald
 
Not seeing how providing primary and secondary landing zones gets done without geofencing enabled. Or are you suggesting a guided missile honesty scheme? Uncertain how that would/could be implemented and work.
The potential problem is someone uses it to deliver a "package" to some "destination". Not one of the hobby rocket fliers at a hobby rocket launch. Geofencing won't prevent the former and might not be of much benefit to the latter. A better approach than geofencing might be to provide primary and secondary landing zones. Secondary is behind the flight line a ways, to be used only if the primary is unachievable. That will accomplish avoiding the flight line, to the extent the device is capable of doing so.

Gerald
 
Datasheets for servos are often not worth the paper they are printed on. Sorry!

If the trajectory on descent when aiming for the primary landing zone enables achieving that zone, continue.

Simplest pseudocode example:

If the trajectory on descent allows hitting the primary zone,
..... Target the primary zone.
else
..... If the trajectory on descent allows hitting the secondary zone,
.......... Target the secondary zone.
..... else
.......... Target closest to the most achievable zone.

One could also include some default intelligence in the algorithm to avoid any region between landing zones.

One could get fancy and specify an arbitrary number of landing zones and exclusion zones. How complex do you want to get?

Gerald
 
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