Motors Certified for L1

[58pan]

I plan to build a Mad Cow Torrent for L1 which comes with a 38mm motor mount. I don't want to fly a L1 attempt with an adapter but;

The NAR Certified motor list only has 3 29mm H motors listed.(contest approved).

The NAR website for L1 certification says:
Motors used for certification attempts must be currently certified by the NAR, or by another organization (e.g., Tripoli) with a recognized certification program. Manufacturer’s designations, not certification test data, will be used to identify suitability for the certification level being attempted (e.g., an H128 is an H, a G75 is a G).

So are they saying " the motor must be certified but if the manufacturer says the motor is an H that is close enough?
Or do they mean something else by "certified"

 

[Flyfalcons]

Welcome! Any commercially available motor in H or I will be certified.

 

[djs]

The list you really want is:

https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/CombinedMotorsByImpulse.pdf

Note- if you're buying a motor from a vendor, they will most likely not sell you a motor that's out of certification. I know my local vendor wouldn't.

 

[Steve Shannon]

I plan to build a Mad Cow Torrent for L1 which comes with a 38mm motor mount. I don't want to fly a L1 attempt with an adapter but;

The NAR Certified motor list only has 3 29mm H motors listed.(contest approved).

The NAR website for L1 certification says:
Motors used for certification attempts must be currently certified by the NAR, or by another organization (e.g., Tripoli) with a recognized certification program. Manufacturer’s designations, not certification test data, will be used to identify suitability for the certification level being attempted (e.g., an H128 is an H, a G75 is a G).

So are they saying " the motor must be certified but if the manufacturer says the motor is an H that is close enough?
Or do they mean something else by "certified"

“Contest approved” is different from certification. Contest approval is not needed for achieving user certification levels. Any currently sold H or I motor that appears on the combined motor list is acceptable for your level 1 certification flight. It’s up to you to make sure the motor is appropriate for any range conditions or COA limitations.

 

[58pan]

Thanks
That's what I thought but it isn't stated clearly.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Open Rocket will let you simulate generally any certified commercial manufactured hobby rocket motor into your kit's specific measurement and mass data. You can get a rough idea of flight performance and stability for free. There's a database for all the NAR/TRA reloads and single use approved motors with it barring the newer motors. For newer motors like an Aerotech DMS H219T-14A (Single use timed delay) you need to go to thrustcurve.org and download that file then add it to the program to select it. You will find certified reloadable or single use motors. Reloadable motors like an Aerotech I-300T are used in an RMS 38-480 aluminum casing system with a threaded forward and rear closure while the propellant is sold separately in yellow paper tubes. CTI would have a casing and rear closure system like a Pro 38-4G for I motors and a Pro38G for 3G H loads. Aerotech, CTI, and Loki are the common certified brands. There are others such as Gorrilla, Rattworks, AMW, and more but they may not be commonly available at every launch site by field vendors. Loki is not certified in California. CS rocketry, Balsa Machining services, and Wildman are common motor vendors for certified reloads/single use motors.

If NAR doesn't have all the motors you want to fly, try TRA. TRA lets you do certain research things NAR won't let you do after you get an L-2. TRA has research launch days for aluminum construction, head end ignition for minimum diameter builds, and other motor modification builds. NAR may want you to cut slots into a minimum diameter airframe if its a multistage for example rather than wire the casing from the front. The advantage I do give NAR is it has lower membership costs. Some members get both. NAR S&T approves a commercial manufactured motor for the certification status. The delays are also approved unless its a plugged motor in which the user will electronically time the delay using a external electronic device and a separate deployment charge.

Sorry if I went on and on. Maybe that could help you after you find the lists of certified motors for selecting one. Most people like to certify on an H because the rocket flies lower and is easier to see and recovery visually. This will depend on size and mass of rocket or maybe you will want try an I, but some rockets will go out of sight on an I and may need a tracker.

 

[Bat-mite]

Open Rocket will let you simulate generally any certified commercial manufactured hobby rocket motor into your kit's specific measurement and mass data. You can get a rough idea of flight performance and stability for free. There's a database for all the NAR/TRA reloads and single use approved motors with it barring the newer motors. For newer motors like an Aerotech DMS H219T-14A (Single use timed delay) you need to go to thrustcurve.org and download that file then add it to the program to select it. You will find certified reloadable or single use motors. Reloadable motors like an Aerotech I-300T are used in an RMS 38-480 aluminum casing system with a threaded forward and rear closure while the propellant is sold separately in yellow paper tubes. CTI would have a casing and rear closure system like a Pro 38-4G for I motors and a Pro38G for 3G H loads. Aerotech, CTI, and Loki are the common certified brands. There are others such as Gorrilla, Rattworks, AMW, and more but they may not be commonly available at every launch site by field vendors. Loki is not certified in California. CS rocketry, Balsa Machining services, and Wildman are common motor vendors for certified reloads/single use motors.

If NAR doesn't have all the motors you want to fly, try TRA. TRA lets you do certain research things NAR won't let you do after you get an L-2. TRA has research launch days for aluminum construction, head end ignition for minimum diameter builds, and other motor modification builds. NAR may want you to cut slots into a minimum diameter airframe if its a multistage for example rather than wire the casing from the front. The advantage I do give NAR is it has lower membership costs. Some members get both. NAR S&T approves a commercial manufactured motor for the certification status. The delays are also approved unless its a plugged motor in which the user will electronically time the delay using a external electronic device and a separate deployment charge.

Sorry if I went on and on. Maybe that could help you after you find the lists of certified motors for selecting one. Most people like to certify on an H because the rocket flies lower and is easier to see and recovery visually. This will depend on size and mass of rocket or maybe you will want try an I, but some rockets will go out of sight on an I and may need a tracker.

NAR, TRA and CAR all share certifications. Doesn't matter which body does the certifying. All CTI motors are certified by CAR, but I got all my NAR certs using CTI. And then sent a letter to TRA and got cross-certified.

 

[Zeus-cat]

I plan to build a Mad Cow Torrent for L1 which comes with a 38mm motor mount. I don't want to fly a L1 attempt with an adapter but;

The NAR Certified motor list only has 3 29mm H motors listed.(contest approved).

The NAR website for L1 certification says:
Motors used for certification attempts must be currently certified by the NAR, or by another organization (e.g., Tripoli) with a recognized certification program. Manufacturer’s designations, not certification test data, will be used to identify suitability for the certification level being attempted (e.g., an H128 is an H, a G75 is a G).

So are they saying " the motor must be certified but if the manufacturer says the motor is an H that is close enough?
Or do they mean something else by "certified"

It is a little confusing. They are referring to two different things when they use the term certified or a variation of that word. First, the motors are certified for use in rockets. NAR, Tripoli and CAR certify motors for use by people and these motors can be used at launches. People can make their own motors, but only Tripoli allows those motors to be used at one of their launches and these motors are NOT certified.

Secondly, people can become certified to fly high power motors. In the US that means you have to successfully fly a rocket with an H or I motor on a certification attempt flight at a NAR or Tripoli event. If you pass, then you are certified at level 1, or L1. As far as I know, any H or I motor that NAR states is certified for use is appropriate for your L1 certification attempt.

So the motor certification is completely different than your personal certification.