MJG/Electricmatch starters

[mtnmanak]

Listing the delays on Estes BP based motors is pointless since the delay is not determined by nozzle size.

Feel free to use this list however you want. I merely fitted the igniters to every different motor I had on hand. If including the different delays sparks anyone's OCD, please put masking tape on your computer screen to block out the offending motors.

 

[dpower]

Quick level set here because the issue of "which motors do the MJG BP starters fit in" came up again in another thread. So, here it is. Motors from left to right are:

1/4 A3-3T
1/2 A3-2T
1/2 A3-4T
A3-4T
A10-0T
A10-3T
A10-PT
1/2 A6-2
A8-0
A8-3
A8-5
B4-2
B4-4
B6-0
B6-2
B6-4
C6-0
C6-3
C6-5
C6-7

C5-3 is absent because I used all the ones I had a couple weeks ago using these igniters, so I can assure you they fit fine in the C5-3s.

Also, I have had 100% ignition success with these starters, including in clusters of up to 12 motors.

Thanks, this is really helpful!

 

[electricmatch]

I believe that all manufacturers of igniters should be required to provide all-fire and no-fire data. Furthermore, the igniters should be submitted for a certification process, siimilar to motor certification. In addition to igniters supplied by manufacturers, random samples, at random intervals, would also be tested. This is a safety issue.

Dave F.

that information is available now.
https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters

 

[bad_idea]

that information is available now.
https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters

Thank you!

Any word on if/when the composite starters will again be available?

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Just checked them out. They look like small head FireWires with the same all/no fire specs. YAY!! I was wondering what CTI was using for their small moon burners like the 24-3G F30.

 

[electricmatch]

Thank you!

Any word on if/when the composite starters will again be available?

the original ones we had i don't see coming back. we are working on an alternative, but they haven't been performing as we want. so i don't have a date on them yet, however it hasn't been "shelfed" yet so that's promising.

 

[dpower]

I used the 1' BP Starters recently, and they worked just fine, instant cluster ignition. The only difficulty I had was getting them to stay in the nozzle - while they fit even the smallest nozzle, there isn't much room to insert a ball of wadding to hold them in, and the wires being stiff and heavy, it's more difficult to keep downard force off them. With the old-style BP starters, the wires were so thin, a ball of wadding held them in very well, and the flexibility made it easier to not accidentally pull one out (I use them exclusively for clusters). Any suggestions, MJG?

 

[bad_idea]

I used the 1' BP Starters recently, and they worked just fine, instant cluster ignition. The only difficulty I had was getting them to stay in the nozzle - while they fit even the smallest nozzle, there isn't much room to insert a ball of wadding to hold them in, and the wires being stiff and heavy, it's more difficult to keep downard force off them. With the old-style BP starters, the wires were so thin, a ball of wadding held them in very well, and the flexibility made it easier to not accidentally pull one out (I use them exclusively for clusters). Any suggestions, MJG?

In another thread, @aerostadt mentioned using Scotch Adhesive Putty to hold the BP starters in. I tried that for the first time this weekend, and it worked perfectly, far easier than my previous combination of wadding, blue tape, and swearing a lot.

 

[Tractionengines]

Must be selling ok....just went for the 1' BP starters and they are out-of-stock.

@electricmatch Any idea on restock ETA?

 

[user 35280]

Must be selling ok....just went for the 1' BP starters and they are out-of-stock.

@electricmatch Any idea on restock ETA?

Buy the longer igniters and cut them down to the length you want.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

A piece of masking tape across the nozzle will hold them in.

 

[bad_idea]

A piece of masking tape across the nozzle will hold them in.
View attachment 502525

Part of my problem was running out of surface area to which to stick tape. My 7 x 18mm cluster is "minimum diameter" in that it's a BT-70 with the motor tubes crammed shoulder to shoulder inside.

Another part of my problem may have been using blue tape which isn't the stickiest stuff.

In any case, the putty solved my problems.

 

[bad_idea]

Another fine flight of the 7x18 cluster yesterday, seven C6-5s this time (turns out the -7 I've used before in fact was the better choice for this rocket) started by 7 MGJ BP starters, held into the motors with Scott poster putty. As I've grown to expect, all motors fired at once. This is five flights now, with the only motor of the 35 flown which didn't ignite being one where I'd allowed the starter to pull free of the motor on the pad.

Was launching off club equipment I'd not used for clusters before, so I burned seven in parallel by themselves before the flight to test compatibility with the club launcher. As in previous tests, they all blew simultaneously and instantaneously. I'd need a faster camera to catch more than one frame of them going off:


I've been so pleased with how trouble-free these are compared to the hit-and-miss of Estes starters that I tried one in a solo E12-6 yesterday. It worked as brilliantly as ever, so @electricmatch , I can confirm your BP starter gives an instant light to the Estes E12 in addition to those motors listed on your site.

These blackpowder starters are a great choice for blackpowder clustering - an obvious choice for those who don't want to delve into pyrogen dipping - and for single-motor flights, it's an obvious backup to have with you in the flyer line in case your Estes starter fails. Cheaper than Estes will sell you a spare too, and after shipping, comparable to AC Supply's price for Estes starters.

I'd always caution some testing outside of motors with each new launch controller you encounter, since the resistance is high enough for some controllers to fire them checking continuity, but aside from that, they're pretty much trouble free now that I've taken up the poster putty trick to hold them in.

 

[cwbullet]

Good video! I am impressed with them. Great stuff.

 

[bad_idea]

Good video! I am impressed with them. Great stuff.

Thanks!

Seven hours learning Blender and Youtube subtitles and other settings, all for a 22 second clip. I can see why I've never done that before (and may never again).

 

[electricmatch]

Thank you!

Any word on if/when the composite starters will again be available?

Must be selling ok....just went for the 1' BP starters and they are out-of-stock.

@electricmatch Any idea on restock ETA?

They are back in stock.

 

[DirkTheDaring]

Feel free to use this list however you want. I merely fitted the igniters to every different motor I had on hand. If including the different delays sparks anyone's OCD, please put masking tape on your computer screen to block out the offending motors.

I'm not sure if this the right place to ask, so feel free to direct me elsewhere (but I'm currently having email problems, so I may not see notifications right away). Apogee Rockets says not to use these on composite engines. By "these", I mean MGJ firewire initiators. Is this true? (Mostly I got these for bp clusters, but I'll use where appropriate.)
Thank you.

 

[heada]

Composite motors in most cases need more energy to start than these provide. MJG used to have composite starters but no longer. There are several vendors that sell starters for composite motors and kits to make your own.

 

[Ez2cDave]

I'm not sure if this the right place to ask, so feel free to direct me elsewhere (but I'm currently having email problems, so I may not see notifications right away). Apogee Rockets says not to use these on composite engines. By "these", I mean MGJ firewire initiators. Is this true? (Mostly I got these for bp clusters, but I'll use where appropriate.)
Thank you.

The easiest way to explain it is that the "duration" of the heat supplied by an MGJ electric match is insufficient to ignite Composite propellant. They are fine for BP motors.

Composite propellant requires heat to be applied for a longer period of time, to ignite it.

Dave F.

 

[DirkTheDaring]

Composite motors in most cases need more energy to start than these provide. MGJ used to have composite starters but no longer. There are several vendors that sell starters for composite motors and kits to make your own.

Thank you!

 

[mtnmanak]

I'm not sure if this the right place to ask, so feel free to direct me elsewhere (but I'm currently having email problems, so I may not see notifications right away). Apogee Rockets says not to use these on composite engines. By "these", I mean MGJ firewire initiators. Is this true? (Mostly I got these for bp clusters, but I'll use where appropriate.)
Thank you.

Aaron is 100% right, these BP starters should not be used in Composite motors. For small composite motors, Quest igniters work quite well. For anything above 29mm, I find it preferable to make my own.

Having said that, you can use these BP igniters if you dip them in ProCast (from Quickburst - http://quickburst.net/qb/procast-order-page/).

If you dip the BP starters in ProCast - make sure it still fits in the core of the motor! Unlike BP motors, most composite motors are NOT end burners, the starter needs to be inserted all the way to the top end of the motor grains. Especially on 18mm and 24mm composite motors, the core diameter is very small. In some motors, such as the Aerotech E20, that use a C-Slot, it would be almost impossible to insert a dipped e-match. As a test, hold the starter on the outside of the motor with the end near the end of the motor case where the grains would likely end and mark the length on the starter. That will give you a rough idea of how far you will need to insert the starter.

 

[Jmhepworth]

I use them to light Aerotech composite motors in the sustainer of a two stage rocket. But I also add a Pyrodex pellet at the forward end of the motor. And I try to use blue thunder whenever I can. It lights easier.

 

[bad_idea]

I use them to light Aerotech composite motors in the sustainer of a two stage rocket. But I also add a Pyrodex pellet at the forward end of the motor. And I try to use blue thunder whenever I can. It lights easier.

Aside from the Pyrodex, are you augmenting them in any way?

 

[heada]

Aside from the Pyrodex, are you augmenting them in any way?

I do similar with pyrodex pellets in my 38mm and bigger Loki motors. It turns them into instant-on like CTI and an ematch can start them.

$31 for 100 pellets.

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/hodgdon-pyrodex-pellets

 

[DirkTheDaring]

Aaron is 100% right, these BP starters should not be used in Composite motors. For small composite motors, Quest igniters work quite well. For anything above 29mm, I find it preferable to make my own.

Having said that, you can use these BP igniters if you dip them in ProCast (from Quickburst - http://quickburst.net/qb/procast-order-page/).

If you dip the BP starters in ProCast - make sure it still fits in the core of the motor! Unlike BP motors, most composite motors are NOT end burners, the starter needs to be inserted all the way to the top end of the motor grains. Especially on 18mm and 24mm composite motors, the core diameter is very small. In some motors, such as the Aerotech E20, that use a C-Slot, it would be almost impossible to insert a dipped e-match. As a test, hold the starter on the outside of the motor with the end near the end of the motor case where the grains would likely end and mark the length on the starter. That will give you a rough idea of how far you will need to insert the starter.

Roger that, and thank you.

 

[Jmhepworth]

Aside from the Pyrodex, are you augmenting them in any way?

No. And I‘ve been 100% in getting the sustainer to light when the e-match fires. It‘s a trick CJ taught me.

 

[mtnmanak]

For 38mm motors and up, Pyrodex pellets work great, I use them all the time. However, I think Dirk is talking about using smaller, single use composite motors. That makes it far more difficult (and possibly dangerous) to use pyrodex.

If you are using reloadables, get some pyrodex and go for broke.

If you are using single-use 18mm, 24mm and 29mm motors, don't try and shove pieces of pyrodex up there. Get some ProCast and dip you igniters or get your hands on some Quest igniters.

For people recommending Pyrodex, remember this thread started as a BP/small composite motor ignition question. Recommending Pyrodex without reading through the thread is a bit out of context.

 

[TheTank]

For 38mm motors and up, Pyrodex pellets work great, I use them all the time. However, I think Dirk is talking about using smaller, single use composite motors. That makes it far more difficult (and possibly dangerous) to use pyrodex.

If you are using reloadables, get some pyrodex and go for broke.

If you are using single-use 18mm, 24mm and 29mm motors, don't try and shove pieces of pyrodex up there. Get some ProCast and dip you igniters or get your hands on some Quest igniters.

For people recommending Pyrodex, remember this thread started as a BP/small composite motor ignition question. Recommending Pyrodex without reading through the thread is a bit out of context.

For 38mm motors and up, Pyrodex pellets work great, I use them all the time. However, I think Dirk is talking about using smaller, single use composite motors. That makes it far more difficult (and possibly dangerous) to use pyrodex.

If you are using reloadables, get some pyrodex and go for broke.

If you are using single-use 18mm, 24mm and 29mm motors, don't try and shove pieces of pyrodex up there. Get some ProCast and dip you igniters or get your hands on some Quest igniters.

For people recommending Pyrodex, remember this thread started as a BP/small composite motor ignition question. Recommending Pyrodex without reading through the thread is a bit out of context.

Had a question for you about the pyrodex pellets you were using but wasnt able to send the message for some reason. Was off topic for this thread. Could you shoot me a message? Wanted to pick your brain a bit if your willing.

 

[mtnmanak]

Had a question for you about the pyrodex pellets you were using but wasnt able to send the message for some reason. Was off topic for this thread. Could you shoot me a message? Wanted to pick your brain a bit if your willing.

No worries, John - PM sent

 

[Jmhepworth]

For 38mm motors and up, Pyrodex pellets work great, I use them all the time. However, I think Dirk is talking about using smaller, single use composite motors. That makes it far more difficult (and possibly dangerous) to use pyrodex.

If you are using reloadables, get some pyrodex and go for broke.

If you are using single-use 18mm, 24mm and 29mm motors, don't try and shove pieces of pyrodex up there. Get some ProCast and dip you igniters or get your hands on some Quest igniters.

For people recommending Pyrodex, remember this thread started as a BP/small composite motor ignition question. Recommending Pyrodex without reading through the thread is a bit out of context.

Right. I only use Pyrodex on 38mm and up.