MJG/Electricmatch starters

[Neutronium95]

3 foot won't go away. it is too popular in the pyro industry. we will make 2400 of the 1 foot, and see how they sell.

I just ordered some to see if they'll fit better in my Tender Descender. If I'm lucky, I might even be able to fit redundant igniters in without modifying it. The 3 foot length would be a lot better for that application.

 

[Buzzard]

Really looking forward to the one foot lengths of the BPS's. For my applications, the shorter lengths would be better than having to trim the 3'. Thank you for making the option for our model rocketry application. I use the Firewires for D12 clusters. Love them.

Chas

 

[Neutronium95]

My BP starters arrived today. They're almost perfectly sized for the Tender Descender. I'll need to drill out the hole for the igniter wires by a tiny amount to get redundant ematches in there. Are the 3 foot lengths going to be produced going forward, or should I stock up now?

 

[dpower]

I am not sure which igniters you have, but I just received a box of BP igniters from them last week (the version with the 3 foot wires) and the ones I received definitely fit inside C6 nozzles. Here are some photos of the igniter head, a C6 motor, the wire inserted and some other motors with the igniter inserted. It even fits inside the very small nozzle of a 13mm 1/2A3-4T with no problem.<snip>

Thanks for posting those pics, I may have to give these a try when the 1' version is available. The previous generation of BP starters were about 3" long, used very thin twisted pair, and had 2 sizes, regular (brown wire) and mini (even thinner blue/white wire). They came in 24 packs @ $0.65 per starter. The regular size fit in Estes D12 nozzles, but not very well in Estes C6 nozzles. The mini BP starters worked great in Estes C6 nozzles.

 

[dpower]

3 foot won't go away. it is too popular in the pyro industry. we will make 2400 of the 1 foot, and see how they sell.

I look forward to the 1' versions, thanks for making them available.

 

[DaHabes]

Thanks for posting those pics, I may have to give these a try when the 1' version is available. The previous generation of BP starters were about 3" long, used very thin twisted pair, and had 2 sizes, regular (brown wire) and mini (even thinner blue/white wire). They came in 24 packs @ $0.65 per starter. The regular size fit in Estes D12 nozzles, but not very well in Estes C6 nozzles. The mini BP starters worked great in Estes C6 nozzles.

It's too bad they don't make the prior version. I just used them yesterday on my Cluster Duck. I think I have enough left for three launches. 1' is still too long but better than 3'. They don't get it that BP motors are end burners and don't need to go up into the motor. 3" is perfect.....

 

[cwbullet]

Launched today. The Black Powder igniters worked 100%.

 

[user 35280]

Launched today. The Black Powder igniters worked 100%.

On what motors? Did you try them with q-jets?

 

[heada]

Qjets are not BP. Nozzle opening on Qjets are too small for the MJG BP starters.

 

[cwbullet]

On what motors? Did you try them with q-jets?

I posted this before. These are most likely not appropriate for QJETs.

They will not fit all the way so I did not try them.

 

[electricmatch]

1 ft bps are now available. still working on the composites.

https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters

 

[Buzzard]

I had waited for the one foot length igniters, but bought 50 of the 3 ft. Used three on an Estes Ranger clone with three C6 motors. The DARS sections uses a 12 volt system that lights just about anything. Video shows the three MJG BP igniters lighting simultaneously. Definately will buy the one foot length ones in the future.

Chas

 

[cwbullet]

Heck, you only save 20 cents on 1 foot wires.

 

[dpower]

Thanks, just ordered 10 packs of the 1’, looking forward to trying them.

 

[Grog6]

Clusters are why I overbuild all the current paths, so there'/s no undercurrent fails.
If you're doing a bunch in series, a 20V drill battery will work.

 

[achaskin]

anyone got smaller quantities of these at the moment that I could buy?

 

[cwbullet]

I have been testing them and had great success with BP and CTI motore.

 

[Grant_Edwards]

I talked with Jeff @ electricmatch.com .... He would not give no fire and all fire currents.

That seems like a huge red flag to me. How is it possible to design a safe, reliable launch controller without "no fire" and "all fire" current specs for igniters?

 

[Grog6]

The launcher needs to be able to live thru the clips shorting together. That happens oftener than you'd think.
I used to put in a series resistor to limit max current, but I got tired of replacing it in the field.

 

[Grant_Edwards]

The launcher needs to be able to live thru the clips shorting together. That happens oftener than you'd think.

I had to replace my 10A fuse 3 or 4 times during the last launch.

I used to put in a series resistor to limit max current, but I got tired of replacing it in the field.

I'm in the process of replacing the fuse with a 7A press-to-reset circuit breaker. I thought about adding a current-limiter, but a circuit breaker was easier (and there was already a hole were it could be mounted due to previous a previous re-work).

 

[Grog6]

Circuit breakers are cool, but they'll flow 200% current for 10 seconds before they pop.

 

[Ez2cDave]

I talked with Jeff @ electricmatch.com when the first BP starters came out . . . He would not give no fire and all fire currents.

I believe that all manufacturers of igniters should be required to provide all-fire and no-fire data. Furthermore, the igniters should be submitted for a certification process, siimilar to motor certification. In addition to igniters supplied by manufacturers, random samples, at random intervals, would also be tested. This is a safety issue.

Dave F.

 

[cwbullet]

I believe that all manufacturers of igniters should be required to provide all-fire and no-fire data. Furthermore, the igniters should be submitted for a certification process, siimilar to motor certification. In addition to igniters supplied by manufacturers, random samples, at random intervals, would also be tested. This is a safety issue.

Dave F.

I understand the angst, but they do work. Do we get the same data from China? Is it reliable?

 

[beeblebrox]

I believe that all manufacturers of igniters should be required to provide all-fire and no-fire data. Furthermore, the igniters should be submitted for a certification process, siimilar to motor certification. In addition to igniters supplied by manufacturers, random samples, at random intervals, would also be tested. This is a safety issue.

Dave F.

Don't give anyone any crazy ideas, some gov't idiot will want to take this idea tax the heck out of it and then igniters will cost $20 each...

 

[cwbullet]

Don't give anyone any crazy ideas, some gov't idiot will want to take this idea tax the heck out of it and then igniters will cost $20 each...

Imagine that: we would have to certify igniters too? That would be ridiculous.

 

[DaHabes]

So I ordered some blackpowder and composite starters from https://electricmatch.com/rocketry

Anyone have experience using this vendor? The prices were low enough ($0.69 for the BP starters) that I might order large quantities if they work out well. Having long wires will make clustering much easier.

Great vendor. I still have some of their previous BP igniters, but won't hesitate to buy the new ones. I use their e-matches, which have been solid.

 

[bad_idea]

I talked with Jeff @ electricmatch.com when the first BP starters came out. There may have been changes since then. However, they used a conductive pyrogen and the resistance varied a lot. Do not attempt to use these in clusters. He would not give no fire and all fire currents. Note that all starters are current driven devices. All you need is enough volts to drive the all fire current through the resistance. I do not know about the composite motor starters.
For reliable 24 mm cluster ignition use FireWire starters. Stick them in as far as they will go and tape over the nozzle to hold them in. They do not have to touch the propellant although I check in the nozzle and make sure I can see BP and no clay over it. I have not tried to light 18 mm motors this way.

Thank you for posting these details. I had read it before, but long before I had become interested in blackpowder clustering, so the significance had not registered. Revisiting your post now, since @Grant_Edwards quoted it.

This may explain why in testing I've had some of the MJG blackpowder starters burn while testing continuity using one of my two launch controllers (or could be that controller is faulty). Also may explain the inconsistent results firing clusters of them with my relay controller.

I had been naïvely believing that the no-fire and all-fire specs would be the same as those of the Firewire starters. Finally found my multimeter so can do some testing of my controllers and gather some resistance values on the ematches when I get a free evening soon.

Test fitting a Firewire starter to an 18mm A6 motor, it seemed to fit as deeply as the blackpowder starter did, and to my surprise, it seemed to fit a 13mm A10-PT too. I suppose I need to set up a test rig in a flower pot or something to see how well the Firewire starters ignite these smaller motors, especially clustered.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Here's some pics of the ematch in a C6. These are J-Tek (I had an ATF license at the time I bought these and took the pictures.) You can get ATF unregulated matches here https://electricmatch.com/pyrotechnics/see/6/5/mjg-firewire-initiator

 

[mtnmanak]

Quick level set here because the issue of "which motors do the MJG BP starters fit in" came up again in another thread. So, here it is. Motors from left to right are:

1/4 A3-3T
1/2 A3-2T
1/2 A3-4T
A3-4T
A10-0T
A10-3T
A10-PT
1/2 A6-2
A8-0
A8-3
A8-5
B4-2
B4-4
B6-0
B6-2
B6-4
C6-0
C6-3
C6-5
C6-7

C5-3 is absent because I used all the ones I had a couple weeks ago using these igniters, so I can assure you they fit fine in the C5-3s.

Also, I have had 100% ignition success with these starters, including in clusters of up to 12 motors.

 

[heada]

Listing the delays on Estes BP based motors is pointless since the delay is not determined by nozzle size.