# Mirage

### Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

#### skyward

##### Member
Hello everybody. I am somewhat of a novice in the rocket world. What is the largest engine I can put in the Mirage rocket. In the past, I have had a tendency to over spray paint adding excess weight. With a rocket of this size I can see that it might be a problem. I see Aerotech is recommending G80 7-T. I was just curious if there is anything bigger. Also, I do not have any certifications. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
If you build it with a longer motor tube, any 29mm motor ( thrustcurve.org ) is possible though not all 29mm motors are reasonable.

#### cvanc

##### Well-Known Member
If you build it with a longer motor tube, any 29mm motor ( thrustcurve.org ) is possible though not all 29mm motors are reasonable.
LOL! Truer words were never spoken!

Hi Skyward and welcome. A G80 is just fine in a Mirage. (one of my favorite rockets, BTW)

Many people, myself included, build it with some slight modifications to the motor mount to allow longer motors. I used to regularly fly mine with H220s and I would say that pretty much represents the 'edge of the envelope' for a long skinny cardboard rocket. Mine would wiggle like a javelin under that much thrust and I eventually retired it as I was worried it might fold up in flight.

In any case have fun and enjoy your Mirage.

#### samb

thrustcurve.org and rocketreviews.com are two places I go to see what others may have done with a kit like this.

The Motor Guide page on thrustcurve has a long list of rockets folks have entered and the Mirage is one of those listed: https://www.thrustcurve.org/motorguide.jsp?rocket=2910

The All Reviews page on rocketreviews has a nice name ordered list of rockets by manufacturer.
https://www.rocketreviews.com/aerotech-aerospace-mirage--by-gardei-douglas.html

If you built the Mirage stock with the motor hook and thrust ring installed you wouldn't be able to fit some cases. Many of those motors require a Level 1 certification anyway.

#### Bat-mite

##### Rocketeer in MD
A G80 is the biggest thing you can fly without a level 1 cert (in the USA).

#### skyward

##### Member
Thank you everyone for the helpful information. (Especially for the Thrustcurve.org site.) I believe that I will try the AeroTech 80T Motor. I'll keep everyone informed as to the progress. Im hoping for a Thanksgiving launch with the family. Thanks again.

#### dixontj93060

##### Well-Known Member
After all these years, the Mirage is still one of my favorite kits.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Rocketry Forum mobile app

#### mwtoelle

##### Flying since 1977
I have flown mine on a H128, a H238, and a H-180. It flies really well on those motors, although my Mirage is mostly covered with MonoKote.

#### LithosphereRocketry

##### Pining for the Fjords
A G80 is the biggest thing you can fly without a level 1 cert (in the USA).
True- if a G80 were a full G. But it's not. However, a CTI G54 is, and is a moonburner to boot, so it takes of like a G100 with a long tailoff that drags the average thrust below 80N. See this thrustcurve-

#### Tonimus

##### Well-Known Member
Aerotech I205, AKA how to fold a Mirage. I bet it would work with a full length coupler...

#### Bat-mite

##### Rocketeer in MD
True- if a G80 were a full G. But it's not. However, a CTI G54 is, and is a moonburner to boot, so it takes of like a G100 with a long tailoff that drags the average thrust below 80N. See this thrustcurve-

I knew somebody would prove me wrong. :wink:

#### skyward

##### Member
You guys are very much above my knowledge level. Is the CTI G54 a reloading type of motor? I'm not familiar with reloading motors. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet. According to the chart I think that AeroTech G80 is the biggest single use motor available to a guy without being certified. Anyway, thanks again for all the info.

#### Bat-mite

##### Rocketeer in MD
Yes, all CTI motors are reloadable. You would need to buy the casing, rear closure, and the reload. Then you reuse the casing and closure over and over again. CTI motors are very easy to load. You just slide the reload into the casing, screw on the closure, and you are done. The only other thing you have to do is adjust your delay time, which is as simple as turning a knob. Because you hav to invest in hardware up front, it seems more expensive. But the reloads are cheaper than SU motors, and over time it costs less. And because you can adjust your delay time, you get more accurate deployment times.

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
But the reloads are cheaper than SU motors, and over time it costs less.
With the minor caveat that CTI loads require HAZMAT shipping and can still be pricy unless you have access to a launch vendor.
Although SU G's also take HAZMAT unless you find them locally. (that being said, I've never seen a CTI reload sold at a local shop)

#### Initiator001

##### Well-Known Member
I say just follow the instructions and fly it with the recommended motors.

Be sure to observe the parachute packing order. Upper section parachute packed first, lower section parachute packed on top.
That way both parachutes will be pulled out.

#### LithosphereRocketry

##### Pining for the Fjords
With the minor caveat that CTI loads require HAZMAT shipping and can still be pricy unless you have access to a launch vendor.
Although SU G's also take HAZMAT unless you find them locally. (that being said, I've never seen a CTI reload sold at a local shop)
I think AT has a 29-180 G load (blackjack I think?) that ships non-HAZMAT... It might be over 80N average though.

EDIT: It's a G75, so no L1 needed... If you aren't L1, the answer to your question is technically the G54, but if you'd rather buy the marginally more expensive AT hardware and spend longer assembling than pay an extra $50 shipping, the G75J is the motor for you. Both sets are about the same price for one order ($100 hardware vs. $50 hardware &$50 shipping) but AT is better per-load if you order in batches of less than 10 as the load is a bit more expensive.

Just my :2:

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
I think AT has a 29-180 G load (blackjack I think?) that ships non-HAZMAT... It might be over 80N average though.

EDIT: It's a G75, so no L1 needed... If you aren't L1, the answer to your question is technically the G54, but if you'd rather buy the marginally more expensive AT hardware and spend longer assembling than pay an extra $50 shipping, the G75J is the motor for you. Both sets are about the same price for one order ($100 hardware vs. $50 hardware &$50 shipping) but AT is better per-load if you order in batches of less than 10 as the load is a bit more expensive.

Just my :2:
And requires purchasing 29-180 hardware lol.

Although your comment revealed that The Lazy RSO's motor guide is missing the G75J, so I thank you!

#### samb

Skyward you can see we have a bunch of enablers here who will happily spend all your hobby budget for you. :wink: Here's to a successful G80 flight. In case you didn't know Initiator001 designed this puppy.

#### skyward

##### Member
Very helpful information everybody. Also, a big thanks to you Intitiator001 for a very cool design! And as far as the budget is concerned, I'm going to have to piece meal this thing as to not raise any red flags with the wife. Ha ha.

#### tomsteve

##### Well-Known Member
You guys are very much above my knowledge level. Is the CTI G54 a reloading type of motor? I'm not familiar with reloading motors. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet. .
relaods can be intimidating at 1st, but once you can understand how AND why everything goes together, theyre pretty simple.
plus, theres videos to help guide.
plus, the AT G64 is wicked cool in the mirage.
and that G75 mentioned? yes, its a must in the mirage.

and what Initiator said about packing the chute.
very 1st launch of mine, which was my very 1st launch of something bigger than an estes D, i didnt pack it that way and had to rebuild the booster.