Mile high rocket on $1000 budget w/ 1lb payload help.

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neil_w

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3D printing the nosecone might be an option if it was a benefit to your overall design, otherwise would be effort without impact.
It could save a few bucks, if the 3D printing didn't come out of the budget. But I wouldn't bother.
 

Super

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Who holds the certificate that keeps the class within the law.??
I have no clue 😂

The teacher, most likely. The teacher is certified and regulated by the life safety stipulations of the NFSA, but in a completely different section. Similarly, it is the section that regulates the fire codes of schools. For instance, the State Fire Marshall in many states does not have jurisdiction over the fire safety of schools. An elected or appointed official, like a regional superintendent, has jurisdiction. That is not the case with underground storage tanks and other special circumstances. This is likely a topic that would be litigated. Therefore, the important certification comes from the liability insurer. Notify them if the teacher if teaching a high powered rocketry class. Those situations where insurance is in question are always bothersome. LPR is generally covered. HPR is a question I would ask directly to the insurer. Also, all teachers must be highly qualified and certified to teach the subjects they teach under the ole, " No Child Left Behind Act." Teaching itself proves the teacher is. If they are not, the jurisdiction and some liability will be shared by the Regional Supt or other certification officer and the administration and school board. States differ though. Call your state board to find out for certain if where they stand and your state and local fire marshalls for their input too.


It's all cool

when you are covered- for sure.

Just saying, respectfully.
 

KilroySmith

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IMHO, a local mentor provides a lot that an Internet forum can't. For example:
1. An actual High-Power Rocket than can be seen and touched.
2. An actual day outside launching a High Power Rocket. A club launch would be ideal, to be able to watch as parachutes get packed, altimeters get armed, and flights go awry.
3. Real-time bullshooting in a meeting with the whole group discussing what the needs and requirements are, and what ways there are to meet those needs and requirements, and refining a design that comes out of those requirements.

So I'm going to put in my vote for "Tell us where you are, and we'll find you someone local to be a mentor and help out".
 

KilroySmith

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I'm also going to echo Sluggo a bit, in suggesting that jumping straight to a hybrid-powered J is a bit much. Perhaps budget $125 to build a 29mm F or G powered rocket built from the same materials as you're planning on. You can use the same parachutes and electronics to keep costs down, and it'll allow you to launch several times to get your feet wet with HPR. For example, this rocket ( https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-3-Model-Rocket-Kits/LOC-2-6in-Patriot ) is about $70, which when you add in a couple of $25 Aerotech single-use DMS motors will end up costing about $125. I think this will be money well-spent for you in understanding HPR building and launching. I'm pretty sure this group could find you a nice dual-deploy 3 or 4 inch cardboard rocket with plywood fins for the minimum amount of money, as well as the motors to put in them.
 

KilroySmith

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And if you want to do some 3D printing, a nose cone with provisions for mounting ballast is an OK choice, but not necessary if you're going to buy a kit. A better choice is designing and 3d printing the "sled" that goes in the electronics bay to hold the altimeter, batteries, etc. You can also 3d-print the charge wells that hold the black powder for ejection.
 

Mike Haberer

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Does this organization really provide so little guidance and mentorship to students that you have to get these basic questions answered on TRF? That seems pretty crazy to me.
More than crazy. Irresponsible. Your next question is to ask your mentors whom among them has certification in either NAR or Tripoli and what level cert. Ask them and get back to us with the answer.
 

Mike Haberer

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And if you want to do some 3D printing, a nose cone with provisions for mounting ballast is an OK choice, but not necessary if you're going to buy a kit. A better choice is designing and 3d printing the "sled" that goes in the electronics bay to hold the altimeter, batteries, etc. You can also 3d-print the charge wells that hold the black powder for ejection.
Since these peeps are starting from scratch it needs to be dead simple. No 3D printing. 3FNC (three fins and a nose cone), LOC cardboard tubes, plastic nose cone, 1/8 inch birch plywood fins (through the wall for strength), quality epoxy (not BSI for this). Plywood AV Bay sled (cheap, easy). The key question is whether you want redundant deploy. I would suggest an Eggtimer Apogee (dead simple, only fires at apogee, weighs 5 oz.) with a Eggtimer Quark as backup. 2sLiPos, no 9V batteries. Make the rocket long enough that you can fly it drogue-less and use a JCLR for main release. JLCR will fit in the budget with the parameters above. The 1 Lb. payload can go in the payload section, location to balance the sections so drogue-less will very feasible.

Seriously, though, this project is a quantum leap over what has been done to date. The AV Bay electronics alone is a serious learning curve. HPR construction is a learning curve. Hybrid motors is a learning curve. Three learning curves in one project. Just sayin'...
 

dr wogz

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On another note:

look at the uni teams: Spaceport America, NAS SLI, Launch Canada, etc.. Those kids are expected to develop an L3 attempt at the very minimum. These organizations (and TRA & NAR) are starting to 'demand' that proper NAR/TRA L3 people be readily available. And where do you find these people?!



This is slightly less of a time & $$$ commitment, and should be fairly easy to accomplish.. Any L2 person can (and likely has) done this (except for the motor part)

As for glue: BSI 30 minute is plenty for wood & cardboard..
 

dr wogz

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Well, cost is an issue for them, so having them buy & ship a quart of West Systems is $$ (an then buy the scale for small amounts.. and fillers... etc... etc...)

But yes, glue at this point is the least of their concerns! :D
 

jrap330

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Don't blame the student for seeking help, blame the organization that thinks throwing kids into the deep end like this with no adequate mentorship is a good educational strategy.

Maybe this is a worthwhile thing, but it sure doesn't seem like it to me. Does anybody have any experience with SystemsGo? (assuming that's who we're talking about.)
No , it is not worthwhile, it is indeed ridulous. Sluggo is right but you can not blame the kid. Best curriculum, freshman..intro to rocket dynamics, launch model rockets, Sophomore year go mid and high power with maybe this being final project. Since they are using Open Rocket and Roc Sim ,I am not sure how much physics they are learning. I rather see them take a Statics class and Dynamics class, both college level physics courses for engineers.
 

jrap330

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May I also suggest not re-inventing the wheel. There are already kits available that can achieve this, designs that will do as you wish.
Concur, he can even show initiative but stating xy recommendations from this forum and he contacted the kit manufacturer clearly claiming his kit means the design criteria to easily achieve his 1 mile goal.
 

Ez2cDave

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I forgot to mention that for this class I have to use a hybrid engine that is purchased from the organization that runs the class. It is $330 for what might be the best option, which is the J190 with FX fuel grain. But it is the cheapest I can go with the engines. The next ones up are all $550 and that is just too much for the engine. What could I do with the J190?
Since you are "locked into"having to use a Hypertek hybrid motor, let me ask a "dumb question" . . .

Does this organization have all of the necessary Ground Support Equipment ( Fillers, Solenoids, Oxygen tanks, Nitrous Oxide tanks, high-voltage ignition system, etc, etc, etc ), to actually launch Hypertek motors ?

Hypertek motors were the biggest "pain in the rear" to fly out of all the hybrid motors ever produced. ( Believe me, I know from personal experience )

I sold off all of my old Hypertek items, right after we won the BATFE lawsuit.

Dave F.

HYPERTEK - 7.jpg
 

Sluggo

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That looks like rocket science to me. No thanks.
 

blackjack2564

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https://www.systemsgo.org/


Well run program, been around many years, senior program is payload to 100,000 ft. Look through pic albums tons of mentors...they launch larger student projects at White Sands.
 
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mandbn

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Since you are "locked into"having to use a Hypertek hybrid motor, let me ask a "dumb question" . . .

Does this organization have all of the necessary Ground Support Equipment ( Fillers, Solenoids, Oxygen tanks, Nitrous Oxide tanks, high-voltage ignition system, etc, etc, etc ), to actually launch Hypertek motors ?

Hypertek motors were the biggest "pain in the rear" to fly out of all the hybrid motors ever produced. ( Believe me, I know from personal experience )

I sold off all of my old Hypertek items, right after we won the BATFE lawsuit.

Dave F.

View attachment 451384
Yes, they have all the necessary equipment to launch these things, although I agree that they are definitely a pain to work with.
 

kramer714

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Hypertek is 'varsity level' kind of motor. They are not simple to rig, or light, plus they require some very specific GSE. The other aspect of hybrids in general is that the performance is very dependent on temperature, ambient and the NOS temp. Plus the CG moves typically moves AFT with hybrids. Another issue is misfires / frozen grains shouldn't be reused.

odd choice of motors, there are simpler hybrids even.
 

Bruce

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Hypertek motors were the biggest "pain in the rear" to fly out of all the hybrid motors ever produced.
Out of curiosity, which of the hybrid motors did you find to be the easiest to fly?
 
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