# Midwest Power 17 - Nov 15-17, 2019

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#### CzTeacherMan

##### Well-Known Member
Anything is "legal" if you're following the required minimum distances based on total installed impulse (and other rules). The issue with the MWP drag races is that the safe distance basically would have the rockets launching in the next county.

FYI- Tripoli rules state that a "drag race" is 3 or more rockets, so for two rockets on H motors, you can just put them on the H rails.

- assuming of course that these are not two stagers. Not sure what the official QCRS rules are, but in my personal opinion, HPR multistage drag races should not be allowed at all.
Let's keep this simple... In order to be sure that we're following the safety code, let's say that any time multiple rockets will fly at the same time, we need to clear it with the Prefect who will direct where the rockets should launch from.
Two H motors is very doable with the distances we have laid out.
If anyone has questions about drag races, talk to Griffin at MWP or shoot me a PM. I've been nose-deep in the rules and regs for months.
I'm the meantime, I'm a heck of a lot more interested in what E-F-G motors Cayemberg is going to fly! I love his Sconnie motors, but those are usually big. "Other Eric," do tell... What rockets? Pics or you're lying...

#### Steve Shannon

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
With the anti drag race rules that are now in place its almost impossible to do drag races anymore
Actually, no anti drag race rules were added. The special Tripoli rule regarding drag races at Research Launches was removed when the April 2017 version of the Tripoli Research Safety Code was released, which meant that the rule in the Tripoli High Power Safety Code governs both types of launches. That rule is taken directly from NFPA 1127.

The rule simply requires that simultaneously ignited rockets (3 or more) follow the safe distances for complex rockets of equal impulse. Three G motor rockets flown as a drag race fly at the same distance as a rocket with a cluster of three G motors. A drag race of ten H motor rockets flies at the same distance as a cluster of ten H motors. If a site has room for clusters, it has room for drag races.

It should also be noted that the change to NFPA 1127, which happened in 2013, may have been proposed in response to videos on the internet of some past drag race debacles that happened at Tripoli events, but it was not proposed by anyone representing Tripoli. That’s why I urge using judgment before posting videos of frightening mishaps on the internet.

The drag race rule in our past Research Safety Code was the only rule that was less restrictive than the Tripoli HPR Safety Code (commercial motors), but people were not restricting the drag races to Research motors. They were primarily using the Research rule to fly commercial motors at closer distances than NFPA 1127 allowed. As such would have been difficult to justify to the insurance company if an accident happened.

The comment period for 1127 is coming up if anyone would like to propose a change. Some justification would have to be presented.

SMR

#### crossfire

Thanks for the info Steve

#### CzTeacherMan

##### Well-Known Member
Steve, when you mention that "some justification should be presented" are you saying that the "scary videos on the internet" was enough justification presented to change NFPA1127 in 2013?
...
And maybe we could take this discussion off of this thread because it is diluting the discussion of our club's regional launch. Having these kinds of discussions here on this thread makes all kinds of messy implications that have literally nothing to do with the QCRS club, and I would think that anyone savvy enough to discuss rules and regs would also be savvy enough to keep that discussion where it belongs.

...
So, who wants to talk about Midwest Power 17 being a kick-ass event?

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#### Steve Shannon

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Videos probably were not used in the justification, but they may have led to someone proposing the change and writing the justification. The process and the history of this change have been discussed at great length elsewhere and I won’t distract from the MWP thread further.

#### daveyfire

##### Piled Higher and Deeper
So, 4 weeks out...what y'all flying??? I'm getting kinda amped up here!!!
I'll bring a spiral snap ring that fits in an Aeropack tailcone if you bring that Sconnie Sparky again

I also owe Chuck some video footage and Amy a Punisher race. Beyond that... just amped! Can't wait to see y'all again!

#### ECayemberg

##### Well-Known Member
I'm a heck of a lot more interested in what E-F-G motors Cayemberg is going to fly! I love his Sconnie motors, but those are usually big. "Other Eric," do tell... What rockets? Pics or you're lying...
Hey Erik!!! Well, I burned 45 lbs of APCP in 10 seconds at LDRS...so I only have little motors left! Actually, the rail request is for the kids. Not just for mine...I've learned that putting the rockets on the pad is a necessary part of the action for the kiddos. I've witnessed first hand where kiddos are no longer interested in participating at high power rocketry events when they cannot put rockets on the pads. I understand the rule, I understand the underlying Insurance implications, and I understand the enforcement. I applaud the groups like QCRS for enforcing the rules (even though they may be unpopular) while accommodating to the best of practical reality. IE: don't exclude the kids, but provide the proper setbacks that allow supervised children to fly on the front end of the range while maintaining safe distance criteria. But I digress...

Along those lines, our friend Adrian (not Carl) loves to crash perfectly good Loc Goblins. I'm not actually sure how it's possible to destroy 4" Goblins so well, but Adrian has it figured out! So Adrian throws the remnants of a smashed Goblin at me. Since I clearly *need more rockets*, I can't throw it away. Along comes young Jedi Cody, recognizes it as a Goblin, and plots a rebuild! At 8 years old, this kid makes me look like the elementary student! Adrian's Goblin has literally and phonetically been shortened from GOBLIN to GOBL, or GOBBLE. So here's the kid fiberglassing fins last night! Proud dad moment:
002 by ECayemberg, on Flickr

Skills of an 8 year old!
005 by ECayemberg, on Flickr

Gobble, and some other D-E-F-G powered critters will be flying the near pads Saturday-Sunday, thanks to the QCRS Crew!!!

On the small Sconnie Motor Works side of things...I do have a lot of 29mm grains that could be turned into mid power motors. Time permitting, it is a definite possibility!

On the bigger side of things, since getting back from LDRS, my main project has been replacing our deck. It has consumed my every free moment! So, it's whatever I can put together or prep in the short time that remains between now and then. We shall see...deck WILL be done this week darnit!

I'll bring a spiral snap ring that fits in an Aeropack tailcone if you bring that Sconnie Sparky again

I also owe Chuck some video footage and Amy a Punisher race. Beyond that... just amped! Can't wait to see y'all again!
Good Doctor...your friend/semi-clone David Griffin burned that one last December! Once Hot Tub got his grubby paws on it, he kindly offered to burn it for you! But thanks for the reminder....so long as I get a bit of time and temps to cooperate, I'll have a 7600 Sconnie Sparky there for you! But only Saturday and Sunday again...so bring the nice weather east with you for the weekend, will you please!?!?!

Coincidentally, I also promised Amy a motor for her Punisher. I s'pose I gotta bring two now!

#### daveyfire

##### Piled Higher and Deeper
Good Doctor...your friend/semi-clone David Griffin burned that one last December! Once Hot Tub got his grubby paws on it, he kindly offered to burn it for you!
I knew that guy couldn't be trusted as soon as I put the motor in his car. I mean, come on, just look at him

Finish that deck while you've got the weather for it, don't worry about me! Can't wait to be back in the fall fields. (It's supposed to be 90 here today, yuck.)

#### djs

##### Well-Known Member
Adrian's Goblin has literally and phonetically been shortened from GOBLIN to GOBL, or GOBBLE.
Clearly you know my preference on the proper name for it....

#### jd2cylman

##### Still not Carl... ;-)
Jeeze... I wreck one Goblin and I'm labeled a Goblin killer...
Along that vein, anyone know how to make a VERY low angle transition? I've got a Goblin fin unit that's begging to be turned into a Wocket wanna be...

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#### FredT

##### Well-Known Member
I want to give my 4-stage American Karma a try at MWP. It was a major disappointment to me at LDRS when the second stage failed to light. On the bright side it was an easy recovery and I have three motors for next year.

I traced the cause to bad cable that somehow failed between arming on the pad and lift-off. The cable has been replaced and flight tested. So I'll cross my fingers and give it another try.

#### Sabrina

##### The WildChild
TRF Supporter
Is there a pre-registration or a tee-shirt deadline?

#### jbsommerfeldt

##### Well-Known Member
For sale at MWP:
CTI 54mm 6 grain XL case if somebody offers $63 its yours, obo by Sunday morning Aerotech 98mm 7680 case with forward and rear closures, needs seal disk, if somebody offers$300 its yours, obo by Sunday morning

#### jbsommerfeldt

##### Well-Known Member

What Im flying, ASP Tallboy, SuperBird 2.6, Mosquito 2.6 rear eject, Razor 2.6, Wildman V2 sport, Wildman Wild Child and blast from the past Mad Dog Drag Racer from MWP4 (one of the coolest drag races ever). And some other stuff dug out from way back in the rocket closet.

#### alexzogh

##### Well-Known Member
Does anyone know the night flight limitations? I couldn't find it on the website but remember from years past there was at least a limit on motor size. I'm thinking about taking the night woket I was planning on flying at MWP 9 out of storage but worried it may need too large of a motor.

#### CzTeacherMan

##### Well-Known Member
I think we're limited to G motors?
Check with our Prefect - Prefect@QCRS.us
Does anyone know the night flight limitations? I couldn't find it on the website but remember from years past there was at least a limit on motor size. I'm thinking about taking the night woket I was planning on flying at MWP 9 out of storage but worried it may need too large of a motor.

#### CzTeacherMan

##### Well-Known Member
Hey everyone!

Be sure to pre-register and order your t-shirts this week. Pre-Registration will close at noon on Saturday, 11/2.
http://midwestpower.org/

Happy Halloween, and we'll see you soon.

#### jimzcatz

##### Boss, Carolina Rocket Mafia
For sale at MWP:
CTI 54mm 6 grain XL case if somebody offers $63 its yours, obo by Sunday morning Aerotech 98mm 7680 case with forward and rear closures, needs seal disk, if somebody offers$300 its yours, obo by Sunday morning

PM sent regarding 75/7680...TWICE... Check ya messeges my friend!!

#### jbsommerfeldt

##### Well-Known Member
Got it, checked, sorry.

#### djs

##### Well-Known Member
Preliminary forecast is showing fairly low wind, partly cloudy, and temps mostly below freezing for all 3 days. Hopefully the clouds/rain/wind stay away!

#### CzTeacherMan

##### Well-Known Member
Preliminary forecast is showing fairly low wind, partly cloudy, and temps mostly below freezing for all 3 days. Hopefully the clouds/rain/wind stay away!
I gotta go but some long undies then...

Man, am I not happy about having to post this.
Folks, Sandy and I aren't going to MWP this year..
This is one of those launches that we look forward to all year..
This is one of those launches that the camaraderie is more important than the launch..
This is one of those launches where you've made friends that last a lifetime and you only get to see once a year..
I'm so sorry we're not going..
We're both going to miss hanging with you all so much..
Tim and Jackie's hospitality-- what the heck do you say about that..
Laughing till you're tearing in Tim's shop..
Jackie feeding 50 people till they're in a food coma..
I'm really going to miss this one..

If anyone would like anything from me I can give it to a friend that's going to the launch..
So you can still avoid shipping and Haz Mat charges..

I don't even know how to begin to thank EVERYONE for their welcoming Sandy and I with open arms
and joking and laughing all day long..

Teddy

#### jd2cylman

##### Still not Carl... ;-)
Teddy,
Sorry we're not gonna see ya this fall. At least my chair will feel safer...

#### crossfire

I gotta go but some long undies then...
Any idea on the parking yet. Maybe to far away to make that call. It's been a very wet fall up here.

#### Jozef

##### Well-Known Member
So disappointed Teddy that you and Sandy will not make MWP. We'll miss you.

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Any idea on the parking yet. Maybe to far away to make that call. It's been a very wet fall up here.
Historically speaking, that has always been a game time decision.

Yeah,,
We're super disappointed too..
Even the friends that we see more then once a year are still only twice or three times..
Too miss one of those isn't pleasant..
I think it's starting to sink in after hearing from you guys..
I'm really sorry we're going to miss this one..

You're chair still isn't safe,,
it just got a temporary reprieve..

Teddy

#### rockdoc

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Yeah,,
We're super disappointed too..
Even the friends that we see more then once a year are still only twice or three times..
Too miss one of those isn't pleasant..
I think it's starting to sink in after hearing from you guys..
I'm really sorry we're going to miss this one..

You're chair still isn't safe,,
it just got a temporary reprieve..

Teddy
Teddy,

We're going to miss you and Sandy, you always make what MWP is all about, the conversations, the stories and laughing until you cry.

So disappointed Teddy that you and Sandy will not make MWP. We'll miss you.
Joe,,
Hangin and laughin with you and Nancy is what it's all about..

Teddy,

We're going to miss you and Sandy, you always make what MWP is all about, the conversations, the stories and laughing until you cry.
This is the only time of the year we get to see you Gary..
So this means you'll without a doubt come to Potter NY for the URRF launch in June.. lol..
You have tooooo..

Teddy