Mid power to L1 cert transition rocket suggestions?

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Was pleasantly surprised that even the L3 guys are quite humble, as they screw up too!

Hans.

At the end of the day , it really doesn't matter what you build, as long as you have fun and learn something. After doing this for about 45 years, I still actually do get just as much out of heading to the park with my kids and an armful of 1/2A sized rockets as I do when I load up a 4 x 98mm cluster in a 200+ pound rocket.

There will always be more rockets to build and more designs to try out.

The real answer to "which kit should I buy?" is - Yes.
 
I thank everyone for all the suggestions, and more importantly the "thought starters".

So far, and this is still *very* preliminary, the LOC Athena has the fast track for a rocket I can practice with on G, then load it up with an H. Sims (if they are accurate....) show H altitudes of 1500 to 2000 feet, which I think is manageable on motor deploy w/o tracker. At this point I really haven't looked at things like launch rod velocity, etc. for ultimate motor selection.

But also, the LOC Deployer seems a great intro to dual deploy. Seems the logical path is to fly the Athena a bit on G, go for L1. Then practice all the complicated "stuff" on the Deployer with smaller motors, and then try big H, maybe "I" flights on that. What I just outlined is a process over a year or so, maybe longer. Baby steps. However, these 2 choices look good to gradually introduce myself to the realm of the big boys.

Hans.
And.....

PS: The Athena has a payload bay that I can load with some good electrics, like GPS and data logging. Not the best solution for these things, but it allows practice and experience with the "gadgets".

Hans
 
What I just outlined is a process over a year or so, maybe longer. Baby steps. However, these 2 choices look good to gradually introduce myself to the realm of the big boys.
If you can find the book "Modern High-Power Rocketry 2" it goes through a lot of things related to L1 certification and beyond. You can ask questions and watch what other people do, but you can get a lot of information much quicker from this book.
 
Both!!

Upwards in the thread somewhere I mentioned "Thought starters". I've learned a ton. I've been doing sims on suggestions, and rethinking all of this from different angles. It's been an *extremely* valuable process. I could not be happier that I opened this up for discussion. My thought process and possible rocket selections have changed a lot.

My situation is maybe a bit unique. It's not reasonable to show up for an L1 cert with a "1st flight". But I don't have many options to practice with mini G or F motors. Been scratching my head to find that "perfect" rocket that I can get a bit of experience, yet show up prepared for the cert. Still thinking, I'm closer. Gradually moving toward a true H L1 rocket that I can do some club flying with mid G strictly to gain some experience with the particular bird.

Hans.
 
I got interested in mid power many years ago, so I found a LOC Vulcanite kit in a hobby shop and built it. I bought the hobby 29mm/40-120 casing and launched with it. Shortly after that I bought a LOC HiTech 45 and built it. Then I decided I wanted to make L1 a goal so I bought some parts and built a rocket similar to the LOC IV and did L1 with it first flight.
 
Here is my latest rocket that fits this category. This is the Cherokee - H from Vander-Burn. I wanted a rocket that I could fly on F thru H. This photo of the first flight is using an AT G76G-7. The flight reached 1267 feet. The rocket is 3" diameter with a 29mm motor mount and weighs just 26 ounces.

CherokeeH.jpg
 
Both!!

Upwards in the thread somewhere I mentioned "Thought starters". I've learned a ton. I've been doing sims on suggestions, and rethinking all of this from different angles. It's been an *extremely* valuable process. I could not be happier that I opened this up for discussion. My thought process and possible rocket selections have changed a lot.

My situation is maybe a bit unique. It's not reasonable to show up for an L1 cert with a "1st flight". But I don't have many options to practice with mini G or F motors. Been scratching my head to find that "perfect" rocket that I can get a bit of experience, yet show up prepared for the cert. Still thinking, I'm closer. Gradually moving toward a true H L1 rocket that I can do some club flying with mid G strictly to gain some experience with the particular bird.

Hans.
Build two. One to run Fs and Gs and then one for Gs and Hs.

Buy a kit or design a scratch ... Look for what you like, otherwise you'll just keep getting kit suggestions.
 
I've only flown at Brothers once, this last May. Had a great time, it's arguably as much or more fun to sit and spectate. I don't have camping gear, don't really like "roughing" it too much. So it's hotels and driving daily to/from Bend. Hotels there are expensive, so it ends up being a $1000 weekend including gas. And my wife's SUV got hopelessly dirty inside and out driving that access road, that she made me pay for a $150 detail job. I would have spent hours trying to get the dust out of the interior. But that's not going to stop me from returning.

I doubt I'll have anything ready for Sheridan this year for L1. I've heard it can get rather crowded, being conveniently close for the Portland area flyers. I'll likely go this year, bring a couple D and E rockets (OK, maybe stuff an F in one of them if I'm feeling brave), but spend most of my time observing.

Hans.
Sheridan crowd size depends on the days you attend. Friday and Sunday are comparatively light days for crowds. Saturday tends to be the day when most people show up.

As for whether to fly your L1 that day can depend on several factors. Is the wind speed fairly low, is visibility good, etc. If everything is good, you can go to a vendor at the launch site and purchase your L1 motor. They have single use motors that nearly assure you will have a successful flight. If you find an L2 or L3 flyer under NAR rules, they can witness the flight and sign the paperwork. I would recommend you download the paperwork from the internet and have it on hand when you need it.

At this stage of the game, I would recommend certifying under NAR instead of Tripoli (I am a member of both- full disclosure). A NAR cert for L1 is a little more flexible on the paperwork and witnesses. If you ever want to fly research loads, you will need a Tripoli L2. Cert levels are easily transferable between the two associations, so no worries on that issue.🚀
 
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That's.... what..... I...... want.

Hans.

(Although I'm getting much closer.)
I also recommend a 3 inch Binder Design Excel. The owner is in Salem, Oregon and does a lot of specialty work on research motors and high performance applications, so he knows his stuff.

You can pick up the kit for sixty dollars and it is designed to fly on mid-power to low high power (29mm mount). There is also a dual deployment version for a hundred dollars.

Excels are wonderful, stable rockets that build fast and are tough. Also, with the company located in Oregon, the kit will reach you quickly!
 
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I also recommend a 3 inch Binder Design Excel. The owner is in Salem, Oregon and does a lot of specialty work on research motors and high performance applications, so he knows his stuff.

You can pick up the kit for sixty dollars and it is designed to fly on mid-power to low high power (29mm mount). There is also a dual deployment version for a hundred dollars.

Excels are wonderful, stable rockets that build fast and are tough. Also, with the company located in Oregon, the kit will reach you quickly!
Finding listings of his products is a bit confusing. Web search usually brings up SBR/FusionRocket, but deeper digging reveals BinderDesign. There is some slight overlap, but the BinderDesign has some really interesting products.

I met him at Brothers. Bought the small Thor kit.

Hans.
 
Sheridan crowd size depends on the days you attend. Friday and Sunday are comparatively light days for crowds. Saturday tends to be the day when most people show up.

As for whether to fly your L1 that day can depend on several factors. Is the wind speed fairly low, is visibility good, etc. If everything is good, you can go to a vendor at the launch site and purchase your L1 motor. They have single use motors that nearly assure you will have a successful flight. If you find an L2 or L3 flyer under NAR rules, they can witness the flight and sign the paperwork. I would recommend you download the paperwork from the internet and have it on hand when you need it.

At this stage of the game, I would recommend certifying under NAR instead of Tripoli (I am a member of both- full disclosure). A NAR cert for L1 is a little more flexible on the paperwork and witnesses. If you ever want to fly research loads, you will need a Tripoli L2. Cert levels are easily transferable between the two associations, so no worries on that issue.🚀
I'm fairly certain I'll attend Sheridan, but I doubt I'll have an L1 cert rocket ready by then. Well, I might, but it would be a "1st flight", and I'd rather not do it that way.

I'm friends with Dean Charles. I'll probably pester him for my L1 path forward. He's L2.

Hans.
 
Thanks. That explains a lot.

Hans.
Yeah. It is confusing. Scott sold Binder Design to Mike Fisher. Then Scott started BDS followed by SBR.

The Thor is a BDS/SBR rocket. The Excel, the Bat and the Velociraptor are Binder Design kits.

The Excel is nice because fin slots are cut for you. It also comes with motor retention clips. The plywood fins come from quality stock. The instructions are very nice and the rocket is very stable and forgiving. You can find it under Binder Design and rockets or Excel via your web search engine.

As for Scott, his Thor is an extremely popular rocket and he has a lot of great products. I recommend checking out his products to see if you find something you like. One thing to note is a lot of his rockets require some degree of craftsmanship, so I wouldn’t call them easy builds. However, I am certain he has a few easy build rockets on hand.🚀
 
I'm fairly certain I'll attend Sheridan, but I doubt I'll have an L1 cert rocket ready by then. Well, I might, but it would be a "1st flight", and I'd rather not do it that way.

I'm friends with Dean Charles. I'll probably pester him for my L1 path forward. He's L2.

Hans.
Your plan sounds great. Still, it would not hurt to have the document in your glove box just in case.

While you’re there, keep an eye on the weather and winds. It will help you start getting a feel for whether you should fly high or low. Good luck!🚀
 
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