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Originally posted by Neil
Whats the burn time on that G500?:cool: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Click to expand...

.28 seconds, 139 N-s. I have one left but it doesn't burn long enough to arm my Adept altimeters :(
 
Wizard posted Franks phone number... you can still get stuff from him...it's just sketchy flying his stuff at TRA launches. Frank doesn't have a website, and doesn't own a computer, which is probably a REALLY good thing, or he'd always been on ROL or RMR arguing and debating Jerry Irvine.
He does on the other hand hold TWO Phd's... Once in Physics, and one in Chemistry I believe... He's a very brilliant albeit very eccentric man. He's become a good friend over the past several years, and when it comes to sledge hammer motors, there's NO ONE better.
As far as the LONG motors, because of the length/diameter ratio, the burn rate of the propellant has to be kept down. As it is, the 6 grain 38mm 'K' has a burn time of about .6 of a second with all Slow propellant. He's done the Highly aluminized in the O10,000 hardware, which is part of the 'long' family... according to Frank, the I800, J1500, L3000, and O10,000 are all just scaled versions of each other... I don't think he's tried the HA propellant in anything longer than these... and you're talking 50% more propellant.
Frank is interested in doing BIG projects that haven't been done before... he's planning on firing an 8" AN motor at Balls this year... estimates the burn time at 32 seconds.... Anyway, if anyone is interested in anything 'special' or custom, call Frank and see what he says... 805-642-1559.

Ron
 
AN!? As in, the code they use in Rockets of the World? As in, after Z, they got AA, and then AB!? THAT IS HUMONGOUS!!!!!!!!!!!! WHat is this, the first planned private moon landing?:cool: :eek:

Oh how I wish I could go to BALLs this year.... Or any year...

But the Mercury Redstone only uses an AB motor or something like that.... That musta been a typo. The Saturn V used a cluster of 5 AC engines in its first stage according to Rockets of the World. It*MUST* have been a typo..... Seriously, WHAT motor is he planning on using!?:eek: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

This is too cool....:cool:


You still have a G500? Wow... Thats one mighty short burn time! FFT! buh-bye little mach buster!:eek: :cool:
 
Oh... wiat... does "AN" stand for Amonium Nitrate? That would make more sense...:rolleyes: :eek:
 
Good. An AN motor would be a *LOT* bigger than 8"....:eek:
 
it would cost a fortune too. 32 second burn....man that thing must have some serious insulation.
 
Yeah... I suppose once you have the equipment from something else, the motor isnt too bad, but the rocket.... Wow. That thing must be huge.:cool: :eek:
 
what do you mean? the motor is still going to cost a fortune because you need to make and buy the materials for the casing (and chances are you are going to have to have it made) and the part that costs the most is the chemicals for the propellant
 
Well, he owns a motor manufacturing company, he *SHOULD* already have the chemicals. I saw some kind of propelland (not sure if it was ammonium nitrate) for sale on Ebay for $20 per 24 pounds. Thats not too bad.
 
The Chemicals to make propellant are pretty inexpensive...most of the cost in making your own propellant comes at start-up when you have the initial outlay for all the equipment... mixer, scales, "utensils", etc...

Even at the outrageous cost of $10/lb for AP, if you JUST calculate the cost of the chemicals, you can make a K motor for under $20... an M motor for around $50...
If you get involved with a club or group, and get in on deals, you can make an average APCP propellant, like AT Blue Thunder, or White Lightning for around $5-$7 per pound. The reason the manufacturers charge so much, is in order to BE a manufacturer, there are some severe costs in starting up. You have to obtain your LEMP (Low Explosive Manufacturers Permit), a facility to manufacture, Commercial sized equipment, DOT EX numbers, while not specifically expensive, the cost to have the propellant test by the lab that characterizes it for the DOT can be VERY expensive... several thousand dollars PER RECIPE!!! Then you have to by the boxes and anti-static bags specified by DOT, etc... it's a BIG expense.
However, the cost of commercial motors and just the simple fact that a lot of people can make BETTER propellant than you can buy from a manufacturer has driven people into homebrewing. It adds an entirely new facet, and pride to flying rockets when YOU made the motor!! I also make my own hardware, so with the exception of the electronics, I'm pretty much doing it all, and when I have a successful flight, it's VERY satisfying!
Now... If you want to experiment with your own motors, and don't want the expense of several hundred dollars to play with APCP concoctions, consider Sorbitol/Kno3 motors. Kevin Patterson at Trailer Trash Aerospace started making sugar motors a few years ago in 24mm... now he's playing with 5" motors, and flys 54mm and 75mm J's, K's, and L's EVERY month.
He bought all of his equipment, with the exception of the digital scale, at a Goodwill/Thrift store. It cost him MAYBE $50 to get started, and I believe he used a pretty inexpensive scale, as sugar motors don't require 1/10th of a gram accuracy like APCP propellants do due to the minute amounts of some chemicals used in composites. He's buying large quantities of AN and Sorbitol now, and makes propellant now for less than a DOLLAR/pound...
You can check out his website at:
https://www.trailertrashaerospace.com

Whew....man, I need a nap now!

R
 
It would be cool if he used an AN class motor... Wonder how far he'd get.
 
Well, if he was trying to get to the moon, he would overshoot by a few million miles....:cool: :eek: Maybe.... Pluto?:D :cool: :eek: :rolleyes: ;)

Thanks for the info on motors... Unfortunately my dad wont LET me get into EX stuff, so I have to stay with expesnive AT and AMW motors untill I am 18, or at least another year or two to talk him into it....:rolleyes: :eek: :kill:
 
I tried to get into the sugar motor thing, but in the end found it was going to be just as hard as APCP and I really didnt want to go through any remelting processes. I also just like APCP better. I have read up on all the subjects and hope to begin sometime soon when I get the rest of my materials.

I agree that making homemade motors seems like it would give a feeling of more accomplishment.
 
Let me know how it goes, ryan... Do you know what kind of flame/smoke you will get?:cool:
 
in sugar motors its pretty much all the same; white smoke, or sometimes darker smoke but there are often times no flame.

AS for ACPC motors flame color and smoke all depends on composition. My first loads will probably be just white flame with moderate smoke, but nothing fancy as I want to know what I am doing first
 
Kinda like white lightning? That would be cool....:cool: :eek:
 
no more like a kosdon formula...not exactly but kinda. WL requires a couple additives
 
Im not familiar with Kosdon. What are thier propellants like? are they still in buisness?
 
Thats a cool pic! I cant wait to see some of *THESE* in action.... How long will it be untill you are flying them,again?
 

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