Mask Wearing Rant

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georgegassaway

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The face mask is a symbol of fear and obedience.
The face mask is a medical precaution to try to stop the spread of a pandemic.

It is THE MOST effective precaution there is, for anyone who goes out in public (especially inside of buildings).

Refusal to wear one for the silly crap you said is totally ridiculous.

That attitude is a significant reason why a lot of places are still spiking, and some whose rates went down and "opened up" without wearing masks are likely to re-spike in the next few weeks.

Americans wore masks over a hundred years ago to fight the Spanish Flu. We're supposed to be better educated overall given a hundred years, but clearly not so much.

 

afadeev

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Apparently you have never been to a launch. I seriously don't want to to see a sizeable number of these people disrobed...
You completely missed the point...
 

Tyeeking

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That attitude is a significant reason why a lot of places are still spiking, and some whose rates went down and "opened up" without wearing masks are likely to re-spike in the next few weeks.
An interesting claim on several levels. Do you have a credible scientifically based (not media blather and conjecture) cite for that claim?
 

CalebJ

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Given that you're the one contradicting the information coming out from the medical community, he's not the one that needs to provide documentation.
 

Tyeeking

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Given that you're the one contradicting the information coming out from the medical community, he's not the one that needs to provide documentation.
He made a claim that areas are seeing spikes in infections because people are not wearing masks. I’m asking to see the evidence of that. It’s up to him to support his claim. Has the “medical community” as you say made the claim that areas are seeing spikes in infections because people are not wearing masks? If so please direct me to that claim so I can evaluate how they came to that claim.
 

CalebJ

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To be clear - he was referring to the attitude against wearing masks, i.e. total disregard for precaution.

If you're looking for specific statistics about spikes related to masks, that would be nearly impossible to show - we're still at the early stages of reopening at all. What we can do is look to the medical research that indicates they help reduce the spread.

If you want to disregard that, it's up to you. Just don't pretend that you have some medical knowledge that makes you correct and try to cram bogus reports and data down our throats as some sort of proof.
 

grouch

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You completely missed the point...
I can promise you that he didn't at all. He was just trying to be funny with a touch truth thrown in for good measure. It seems all this mask wearing is having an impact on people's sense of humor.
 

Tyeeking

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To be clear - he was referring to the attitude against wearing masks, i.e. total disregard for precaution.

If you're looking for specific statistics about spikes related to masks, that would be nearly impossible to show - we're still at the early stages of reopening at all. What we can do is look to the medical research that indicates they help reduce the spread.

If you want to disregard that, it's up to you. Just don't pretend that you have some medical knowledge that makes you correct and try to cram bogus reports and data down our throats as some sort of proof.
To be very clear I was very specifically questioning the validity of the statement that areas are seeing spikes in infections because people are not wearing masks and wanted to see the data/studies supporting that claim. As you have essentially conceded there is no data to support such a bold claim. That was all that I was questioning in my post.

Never I have I “pretended to have some medical knowledge that makes me correct” or “tried to cram bogus reports and data down your throats as some sort of proof”. That statement is completely out of line and uncalled for. I have simply asked pointed questions regarding broad based statements that apparently some find uncomfortable.

BTW are you aware that the World Health Organization (I assume they are part of the “medical community”) put out a statement today that said, and this is a direct quote; “If you do not have any respiratory symptoms such as fever, cough or runny nose, you do not need to wear a mask”.
 

PXR5

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"BTW are you aware that the World Health Organization (I assume they are part of the “medical community”) put out a statement today that said, and this is a direct quote; “If you do not have any respiratory symptoms such as fever, cough or runny nose, you do not need to wear a mask”."

Umm, the USA cut off funding to the WHO last week for spreading miss truths.
 

Tyeeking

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"BTW are you aware that the World Health Organization (I assume they are part of the “medical community”) put out a statement today that said, and this is a direct quote; “If you do not have any respiratory symptoms such as fever, cough or runny nose, you do not need to wear a mask”."

Umm, the USA cut off funding to the WHO last week for spreading miss truths.
Yes I am aware of that POLITICAL action that was roundly criticized by many in the medical community. Because of that political action is the WHO no longer considered part of the “medical community”?
 

PXR5

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Yes I am aware of that POLITICAL action that was roundly criticized by many in the medical community. Because of that political action is the WHO no longer considered part of the “medical community”?
Seems so, they contradict our CDC.
 

Tyeeking

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Seems so, they contradict our CDC.
So because the WHO contradicts the CDC (who has changed their positions on a lot of virus related issues) they are no longer part of the “medical community”?
 

PXR5

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So because the WHO contradicts the CDC (who has changed their positions on a lot of virus related issues) they are no longer part of the “medical community”?
IMHO you are trying to take this thread into politics and/or a Covid19 general thread.

I believe there is a whole section for that.
(I have selected to ignore those threads)
I will add this thread to those threads.
 

Tyeeking

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IMHO you are trying to take this thread into politics and/or a Covid19 general thread.

I believe there is a whole section for that.
(I have selected to ignore those threads)
I will add this thread to those threads.
Not trying to make it political at all. I will repeat. There was a claim that infections are spiking in some areas because people are not wearing masks. I asked to see the data source of that bold claim. So far all I have seen is folks obfuscating and dodging the question and adding personal insults for daring to ask the question. There is nothing political about that. I’m genuinely interested in seeing the actual data (not conjecture) behind that claim.
 

NateB

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I'm not sure if they are even polling people who tested positive if they were wearing a mask in public or not. Even then, people lie, and people who are adamant that they don't need a mask are more likely to lie and backpedal when/if they become positive for Covid-19.
 

les

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Not trying to make it political at all. I will repeat. There was a claim that infections are spiking in some areas because people are not wearing masks. I asked to see the data source of that bold claim. .
I doubt there is a way to PROVE the statement. There are many factors, including cleaning surfaces, social distancing, masks, self isolation, individual immune systems, etc that factor into the transmission of the virus. To be able to say the one item "not wearing a mask" is the sole cause is next to impossible to prove. However, we did see that these items (cleaning, masks, distance, staying home) significantly flattened the curve. What we are starting to see is where these conditions have changed there have been some upticks in the virus. From what I've seen, the people who stop wearing masks also tend to not worry about social distancing. Which of those two factors are causing the spread? So requiring a specific study to specifically state and prove the lack of masks by itself won't happen and just side tracks the discussion

However, I don't find having to wear a mask causes me any issues, no more than going to a store that states "No shirt, No shoes, No Service" is "against my constitutional rights" or an example of "big government" (since they allow it) trying to enslave me.
 

cwbullet

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I'm not sure if they are even polling people who tested positive if they were wearing a mask in public or not. Even then, people lie, and people who are adamant that they don't need a mask are more likely to lie and backpedal when/if they become positive for Covid-19.
That is a great point. In the past 30 days, we have collated date. Most of the infections have been in ole curmudgeons who refused to wear a mask or the young who think they bullet proof. I have also seen a significant number of "family members" that have passed it around.
 

gldknght

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This mask wearing garbage is all misinformation. Check out this from the New England Journal of Medicine, posted May 21 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

"...We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic..."

Also, while even one death from this thing is tragic, lets not blow this out of proportion any more. Check out these statistics from 2018 the source is World Magazine:

CAUSES OF DEATH BEFORE COVID-19.
599,274 the number of deaths from cancer in 2018, the 2nd leading cause of death during that year. same as 2017.
167,127 deaths from unintentional injuries in 2018, the 3rd leading cause of death
159,486 deaths from chronic lower respiratory diseases in 2018: emphysema, asthma, and pulmonary hypertension.
147,810 deaths from cerebrovascular diseases (or strokes) in 2018
655,381 The number of Americans who died from heart disease in 2018, leading cause of death for both men and women:
smokers, those over 55, family history
59,120 influenze and pneumonia, most like C-19
48,344 in 2018, up from 47,173 in 2017: suicide.

Total deaths in 2018 (I believe this is all in America but it really doesn’t say that): 1,836,542

Bottom line: people are dying every day, every year. How many is that per state? So we stop the world I want to get
off because of the C-19 virus. Government overreach is a really scary thing.


Go ahead, let the flaming begin, I don't really care. People have made up their minds to panic and over-react to this corona virus and don't want to be confused by the facts.
 

cwbullet

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This mask wearing garbage is all misinformation. Check out this from the New England Journal of Medicine, posted May 21 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

"...We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic..."

Also, while even one death from this thing is tragic, lets not blow this out of proportion any more. Check out these statistics from 2018 the source is World Magazine:

CAUSES OF DEATH BEFORE COVID-19.
599,274 the number of deaths from cancer in 2018, the 2nd leading cause of death during that year. same as 2017.
167,127 deaths from unintentional injuries in 2018, the 3rd leading cause of death
159,486 deaths from chronic lower respiratory diseases in 2018: emphysema, asthma, and pulmonary hypertension.
147,810 deaths from cerebrovascular diseases (or strokes) in 2018
655,381 The number of Americans who died from heart disease in 2018, leading cause of death for both men and women:
smokers, those over 55, family history
59,120 influenze and pneumonia, most like C-19
48,344 in 2018, up from 47,173 in 2017: suicide.

Total deaths in 2018 (I believe this is all in America but it really doesn’t say that): 1,836,542

Bottom line: people are dying every day, every year. How many is that per state? So we stop the world I want to get
off because of the C-19 virus. Government overreach is a really scary thing.


Go ahead, let the flaming begin, I don't really care. People have made up their minds to panic and over-react to this corona virus and don't want to be confused by the facts.
Since 1 March,
Nearly 100% of our infections have been from those that violate social distancing or do not wear a mask. Be careful to fully read the research.
 

gldknght

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Since 1 March,
Nearly 100% of our infections have been from those that violate social distancing or do not wear a mask. Be careful to fully read the research.

Umm, yes. Duh! That's self evident! The point is that there is NO EVIDENCE the masks prevent the spread of this virus. The masks are ineffective at preventing infection outside of health care facilities. That's what that article said.
 

cwbullet

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Umm, yes. Duh! That's self evident! The point is that there is NO EVIDENCE the masks prevent the spread of this virus. The masks are ineffective at preventing infection outside of health care facilities. That's what that article said.
That is not what the research article says. You are overarching. No evidence mask prevents the spread in an article on universal masking is not the same thing. The research does not cover overall masking just universal masking in a clinical setting. This a hospital vs real-world setting. It is important to understand the distinction.
 

kuririn

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The face mask is a symbol of fear and obedience.
The face mask is a symbol of common courtesy.
Remember, it is not to prevent YOU from getting the infection.
It is to keep OTHERS safe if you are an asymptomatic carrier shedding the virus.
In this vein, I saw a piece on the news a couple of nights ago about parts of the country re-opening.
There was one business with a sign posted that said "No face masks allowed".
They should have also wrote "Idjits are welcome".
 

kuririn

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The last line says it all:
"By all means, continue to question authority, but bear in mind, sometimes the authorities are right. "
 

Bill S

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My wife has nurse friends who have passed out due to mask wearing during their shifts. They are being told to wear them continuously, not just around contagious payments as they were designed to be used. 12 hours on your feet with a mask on is not good for you.
My wife, who is a retail pharmacist, is required to wear not only a mask but a face shield for her entire shift, which is often 11 hours straight, with no breaks, maybe she gets to pee twice a day. She is constantly reporting headaches and wooziness, which are not condusive to filling prescriptions correctly and not killing someone. It is difficult for her to eat or drink - firstly there are enough busy-bullies out there that some of them actually complained to management when they saw her lift up a corner of her mask to insert a straw to drink or pop in a quick bite to eat so she doesn't starve all day. Management told her to go in the back and hide and remove the mask where the customers couldn't see her doing it. But she can't fill scripts or answer the customer's questions that way. And she certainly can't avoid touching that dirty mask - a lousy Chinese KN-95 by the way.

I have seen a study that checked surgeons who were wearing masks for procedures vs Co2 blood levels and symptoms at various lengths of mask wearing. I'd love to be able to link it now, but I seem to be unable to locate it again. I really wish I had bookmarked it. In any case, they found that there was a very significant increase in blood Co2 levels and it was indeed problematic. It seems that most studies of mask wearing vs Co2 levels seem to be for 1 to 3 hours (easier on the researchers that way?), not 6+ hours.

I've also seen a study wherein increased blood Co2 levels seem to correlate with immune system dysfunction, possibly making it easier for people who wear masks frequently (nurses, docs, surgeons) to become more vulnerable to infection.

I find that the constant changing of stance between the WHO and CDC/Fauci wherein they say that masks aren't needed or helpful, then they backpeddle later and say maybe they help and so you should wear them, then there are studies showing they don't reduce transmission, to be really un-helpful. I wear a mask as required, even though it isn't optimal (N100 mask with exhalation valve because that is what I had available). I haven't had anyone complain at me yet for using a mask that has the valve, nor "save those fancy masks for the healthcare professionals", but I have had someone bitch at me for standing 5 feet away and not 6. (which seems to be a number that CDC simply pulled out of their butts because there doesn't even seem to be any real agreement among scientists that 6 feet is "safe". WHO said you don't need a mask and 3 feet is "safe". Then there are the studies that show someone with CV-19 coughing can infect you 27 feet away. :mad:
 

BABAR

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Lol, wow, I do a build thread and I am fortunate to get 50 views, I talk about masks and thread gets y2k.

I AM wondering if I can get a rough consensus on the original topic, if you ARE going to wear a mask, wear it right, putting it over your nose and mouth. Leaving it hanging on your chin all day is pretense. I do think that fast food places are high risk for the EMPLOYEES, who are running around in a very confined space, working overlapping shifts, and handling cash and credit cards from hundreds of people every day (not saying masks protect you from that—— but if your buddy gets it, and he’s not wearing a mask [properly] he’s probably likely to pass on the gift that keeps on giving!)

For those who think handling money isn’t a source of disease transmission, i found this interesting. Of course it is from some radical right wing group, I think it’s called National Geographic . Not that cocaine is an infectious agent, but I never figured 90% of U.S. currency had traces.


This one is scarier

 

grouch

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The face mask is a symbol of common courtesy.
Remember, it is not to prevent YOU from getting the infection.
It is to keep OTHERS safe if you are an asymptomatic carrier shedding the virus.
In this vein, I saw a piece on the news a couple of nights ago about parts of the country re-opening.
There was one business with a sign posted that said "No face masks allowed".
They should have also wrote "Idjits are welcome".
So why do you have to call people that don't wear mask idjits? Does it give you a sense of superiority? Dampen the dogma and understand there are people who think and believe differently that you and act accordingly.
 
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