Mask Wearing Rant

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tsmith1315

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I despise the masks, their discomfort, and annoyances. Went through 2 rounds of hard chemo/radiation two years ago, and wouldn't wear a mask to protect myself then. Probably spent less than 5 minutes in one, and only one, and that's why I had a supply of masks when this started.

When I heard of the impending shutdowns, the rate this disease was spreading and how compromised individuals aren't too likely to survive, my thoughts went straight to my local cancer center. To those poor people who are having to be poisoned on a constant basis in hopes to kill their cancer before it, or the poison, kills them. People who live many days struggling simply to sit upright, people struggling to get down (literally) a few bites of food so they aren't compromised by malnutrition, people feeling like they're living with your worst college freshman hangover- and it won't be gone for months. They're struggling for life already- for real.

I thought of how fortunate was I to be done with chemo at this point. I remembered looking in the mirror then and seeing my thick gray hair had turned thin and solid white, my skin looked different, and realizing how much I, in my 50's, looked like my grandfather when he was in his 80's. I remembered how hollow some of the other patients looked, and imagined how many were probably hooked up in that chemo room right at that moment. Those people need hope, and the last thing they need is another mortal threat that could be delivered unknowingly by anyone who walks past.

And no, those cancer patients shouldn't be out in public now, but they have to go to the hospital and the doctors office. And *somebody* has to bring them food and supplies. Hopefully they won't also bring along a speck of deadly virus left behind by someone who is too selfish to consider their fellow human beings over an inconvenience.

With those patients in mind, I put on my despicable mask without a fuss. And no, they're not 100% effective, but they do improve the statistics considerably.

Remember, this is only for a little while, not forever. And it's only a minor inconvenience.



And I promise to hush now. I didn't join to fuss about this stuff. I joined to look for resources in hopes to end my latest hiatus and get flying again. There's a trio of Javelins I've been wanting to build for a few years, and it's time to do something about that.
 

Kelly

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I've worn masks in hospitals when needed but all the time is detrimental to ones respiratory system
Do you have any citations for that? I haven't seen any, and though I'm seeing people start to say this, they never provide a valid reference.

Also think, the CDC tells you cloth makes a mask that will work well for you yet they require the N95 mask. Their information and insights have been so far off.
Admittedly, the CDC messed up here. Part of the problem is that this issue is very complex, and the average guy on the street doesn't deal well with nuance: "Masks are good, but even an N95 only stops 95% of particles, so it's not perfect. And it has to be fitted well. An n95 mask with a valve doesn't protect those around you, just you. A cloth mask helps some, so they are a valid tool if we can get everyone to do so, but one person wearing a mask doesn't help much. And the cloth masks are best when worn by those infected. Also, right now we have a shortage of N95 masks, so please don't rush out and buy them, we're better off saving those for healthcare workers". That's all true, but John Q Public doesn't have the time to absorb that, so the message gets dumbed down to "Don't buy masks!" and then a few weeks later, "Wear a cloth mask!"

And, to respond to your other point, the reason CDC required N95 for healthcare workers, is because that is the best mask to prevent a healthcare worker from getting infected from contagious patients. They recommend cloth masks for others, because that is a good compromise between cost/availability, and effectiveness at preventing spread of the disease to others. It's not too difficult to understand, if you think.
 

Steve Shannon

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I despise the masks, their discomfort, and annoyances. Went through 2 rounds of hard chemo/radiation two years ago, and wouldn't wear a mask to protect myself then. Probably spent less than 5 minutes in one, and only one, and that's why I had a supply of masks when this started.

When I heard of the impending shutdowns, the rate this disease was spreading and how compromised individuals aren't too likely to survive, my thoughts went straight to my local cancer center. To those poor people who are having to be poisoned on a constant basis in hopes to kill their cancer before it, or the poison, kills them. People who live many days struggling simply to sit upright, people struggling to get down (literally) a few bites of food so they aren't compromised by malnutrition, people feeling like they're living with your worst college freshman hangover- and it won't be gone for months. They're struggling for life already- for real.

I thought of how fortunate was I to be done with chemo at this point. I remembered looking in the mirror then and seeing my thick gray hair had turned thin and solid white, my skin looked different, and realizing how much I, in my 50's, looked like my grandfather when he was in his 80's. I remembered how hollow some of the other patients looked, and imagined how many were probably hooked up in that chemo room right at that moment. Those people need hope, and the last thing they need is another mortal threat that could be delivered unknowingly by anyone who walks past.

And no, those cancer patients shouldn't be out in public now, but they have to go to the hospital and the doctors office. And *somebody* has to bring them food and supplies. Hopefully they won't also bring along a speck of deadly virus left behind by someone who is too selfish to consider their fellow human beings over an inconvenience.

With those patients in mind, I put on my despicable mask without a fuss. And no, they're not 100% effective, but they do improve the statistics considerably.

Remember, this is only for a little while, not forever. And it's only a minor inconvenience.



And I promise to hush now. I didn't join to fuss about this stuff. I joined to look for resources in hopes to end my latest hiatus and get flying again. There's a trio of Javelins I've been wanting to build for a few years, and it's time to do something about that.
Thank you! That’s a great message!
 

jlabrasca

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Do you have any citations for that? I haven't seen any, and though I'm seeing people start to say this, they never provide a valid reference.
Yeah, that's noise. Cleanroom workers go masked for hours at a time.
 

manixFan

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..<snipped>.. I've worn masks in hospitals when needed but all the time is detrimental to ones respiratory system. ...<snipped>...
Kinda like when they have to intubate you because you can no longer breathe on your own, that’s a bit detrimental to your respiratory system, don’t you think?

Just think, mask or risk of intubation?


Tony
 

Bill Heath

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I'm an essential employee, I do medical robotics. I've worn masks in hospitals when needed but all the time is detrimental to ones respiratory system. As people walk around blindly wearing their masks and being good lemings will find health problems they reward. Also think, the CDC tells you cloth makes a mask that will work well for you yet they require the N95 mask. Their information and insights have been so far off. They might do better throwing darts. I don't have any trust in the CDC so I'll live on my knowledge and years in a hospital. Don't be a lemings, think.
And yet, you don't seem to understand that I wear a mask to protect you. Can't you be a little less selfish? Being a robotics worker does not make you an expert in mask use or their efficiency.
 

Onebadhawk

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I understand why some don't wear a mask properly, and why some don't wear one at all. I understand why people like to smoke cigarettes. I understand why people like abusing cocaine/heroin/prescription drugs/whatever. I'm all for personal freedom.

But their personal freedom ends at my body and/or my nostrils. If these people had even an INKLING that some of the public--or some dearly loved relative---might get COVID19 from them...

For some, it doesn't get real until Mom/Dad/Grandpa/Grandma/Uncle/Aunt gets it.

It's a ******* ******* shame that some people are so ******* selfish that they refuse to get it until it affects them personally. And it's ****** funny (not ha-ha funny, strange/sad funny) that when dearly beloved Grandpa gets it, they suddenly change their views.

I am comforted slightly by the fact that half of the world is below average in intelligence (not IQ, just general intelligence, ability to reason, and concern for their fellow human beings). Those people are at the deep end of the evolutionary pool, and will be the first to drown in it, leaving the rest of the world an epsilon increment smarter. :rolleyes:

Best -- Terry
100%..
Well said indeed..
Thank you..

An interesting aspect of the mask whining (and a distinction from seatbelt wearing) is that you primarily wear a mask to protect others. We all wear masks to protect everyone. So it gives a bit of insight into the thought process and priorities of those who refuse to wear one.
Yes it does..
Excellent point..
I believe the word is selfish..

Yeah, not wearing a seatbelt only endangers the "offender".

This would be more akin to calling drunk driving a personal freedom, as it endangers others as much as yourself.
Another excellent point..

There's people saying "We need to reopen as soon as possible, and get back to 'normal'". And I agree with them 100%. But if they're saying that, but refusing to social distance, wear a mask at all times, etc., then they're hypocrites. We'll get back to 'normal' when people take this seriously, and do everything within reason to help prevent the spread of this disease. Not by running around pretending it's your 'right' to spread a deadly disease to others just because you can't be inconvenienced.
As I spend my dollars, I'm looking for merchants that are also serious about getting our economy going again. If you can't even be bothered to make your own employees wear masks, you won't be getting my business anymore. Not today, and not after COVID-19 is in our rearview mirror.
Exactly.

The economy / businesses can open up exactly the same amount as how seriously we take social distancing and other measures to stop the spread of this virus.
I just saw some numbers on the news about New York state.
One of the lowest sectors of new cases is health care workers..
Do you see the images of doctors and nurses with indents in their faces where their mask and goggles were ??
They spend their working time in known close proximity, indoors with this virus..
They have PPE ( finally ) ,, know how to use it properly, and do so..
If EVERYONE took this THAT seriously everything could be open and working..
That may be unrealistic..
So the big question-
How close to that can we come ??

Teddy
 

AdAstraPerAspera

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Outdoors, there is next to no reason to wear a mask (if you can maintain 6 feet) and it might be hazardous to wear one during exercise. Long-periods of exercise with a mask will lower your Oxygen level and raise carbon dioxide. Low enough and you could caid ischemia to heart or brain. Syncope (passing out) is a real risk.
My wife has nurse friends who have passed out due to mask wearing during their shifts. They are being told to wear them continuously, not just around contagious payments as they were designed to be used. 12 hours on your feet with a mask on is not good for you.
 

AdAstraPerAspera

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NateB

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My wife has nurse friends who have passed out due to mask wearing during their shifts. They are being told to wear them continuously, not just around contagious payments as they were designed to be used. 12 hours on your feet with a mask on is not good for you.
This is my concern as it gets hotter outside. We don't have to wear a mask in our office area, but have to wear a cloth or surgical mask while in patient care or public areas and wear the N95 when treating a patient. Our patient contact time is limited compared to the floor nurses, but we are more exposed to the elements. Adding a respirator to heavy, long sleeved uniforms makes it harder to work and breathe. The only thing I can do to help is keep hydrated during a shift and go "red" if we get too spent to make good judgment.
 

jlabrasca

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1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Rancourt

2) The assertion was that wearing a mask for prolonged periods is injurious. The implication was that the risk of injury from prolonged mask use outweighs the risk of an asymptomatic carrier sneezing on you while you are waiting to check out at the grocery store.
 

cwbullet

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Interesting article but it is overly simplistic and does no look at all of the benefits of wearing a mask. A mask is to prevent to reduce the viral burden from the wearer. There is no epidemiologic data and the mask is mostly there to make the wearer feel protected and remind them of the risk. Right now, we have the largest study running and will soon have data available. It appears promising but the subjects are all military and would be charged for violating an order if they removed their mask. The compliance is higher than any prior group.

N95 is no better in the public: Study casts doubt on N95
 

Onebadhawk

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Interesting article but it is overly simplistic and does no look at all of the benefits of wearing a mask. A mask is to prevent to reduce the viral burden from the wearer. There is no epidemiologic data and the mask is mostly there to make the wearer feel protected and remind them of the risk. Right now, we have the largest study running and will soon have data available. It appears promising but the subjects are all military and would be charged for violating an order if they removed their mask. The compliance is higher than any prior group.

N95 is no better in the public: Study casts doubt on N95
Chuck,
I understand that the common masks worn are to protect others from you.
They reduce the aerosol / mist from leaving you when you breath or speak..
The lass common N95 has a valve or port in it..
Is this port a simple one way valve ??
Then that type mask is designed only to prevent the wearer from inhaling the virus,
it does not prevent others from the wearers exhalation..
If this is true it is a very important distinction..

Is this correct ???

Teddy
 

afadeev

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jlabrasca said:
Yeah, that's noise. Cleanroom workers go masked for hours at a time.
Common, man, you should know better than to post a non-peer-reviewed article, but a non-doctor, who is making a strawman argument against all masks.
The advise to wear cloth masks in public has little to do with personal protection, and EVERYTHING to do with protecting others from the viral particles YOU may be shedding unknowingly.

In a nutshell, this:
 

Wally Ferrer

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cwbullet

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Chuck,
I understand that the common masks worn are to protect others from you.
They reduce the aerosol / mist from leaving you when you breath or speak..
The lass common N95 has a valve or port in it..
Is this port a simple one way valve ??
Then that type mask is designed only to prevent the wearer from inhaling the virus,
it does not prevent others from the wearers exhalation..
If this is true it is a very important distinction..

Is this correct ???

Teddy
You have it correct. N95 protects the wearer and not everyone else. In medicine, it is assumed the wears in not infected. The one-way valve is a weakness on the N95 if the wearer is a spreader.
 

cwbullet

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Common, man, you should know better than to post a non-peer-reviewed article, but a non-doctor, who is making a strawman argument against all masks.
The advise to wear cloth masks in public has little to do with personal protection, and EVERYTHING to do with protecting others from the viral particles YOU may be shedding unknowingly.

In a nutshell, this:
BINGO!
 

neil_w

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You have it correct. N95 protects the wearer and not everyone else. In medicine, it is assumed the wears in not infected. The one-way valve is a weakness on the N95 if the wearer is a spreader.
My understanding is that the N95 masks with one-way valve are intended more to protect the user from environmental contaminants such as paint fumes etc. They're not really for this purpose.
 

cwbullet

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My understanding is that the N95 masks with one-way valve are intended more to protect the user from environmental contaminants such as paint fumes etc. They're not really for this purpose.
N95s are also used in Medicine.

Wikipedia said:
Respirators used in healthcare are traditionally a specific variant called a surgical respirator, which is both approved by NIOSH as a respirator and cleared by the Food and Drug Administration as a medical device similar to a surgical mask.[18] These may also be labeled "Surgical N95", "medical respirators", or "healthcare respirators".[19][20] As part of the Families First Coronavirus Response Act, changes were made to liability and certification laws to allow industrial respirators to be used in healthcare settings, in response to shortages of respirators during the COVID-19 pandemic.[21]

In the United States, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) requires healthcare workers who are expected to perform patient activities with those suspected or confirmed to be infected with COVID-19 to wear respiratory protection, such as an N95 respirator.[7] The CDC recommends the use of respirators with at least N95 certification to protect the wearer from inhalation of infectious particles including Mycobacterium tuberculosis, avian influenza, severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), pandemic influenza, and Ebola.[22]

Unlike a respirator, a surgical mask is designed to provide barrier protection against droplets and does not have an air-tight seal and thus does not protect its wearer against airborne particles such as virus material to the same extent.[7]
 

neil_w

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N95s are also used in Medicine.
Yes, but different kinds, right? From 3M's page:
1590340268223.png


The kind I have in my house are the blue kind, which protect me from inhaling paint fumes but allow expelled particulates out. The ones you guys use in medical fields would presumably be the Surgical variety in the middle.
 

NateB

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The ones you guys use in medical fields would presumably be the Surgical variety in the middle.
Typically, yes, we wear disposable ones with no exhalation valve. Those are the ones we are using with "extended use" for 12 hours at a time rather than throwing them away after each patient contact. We are also using whatever we can get our hands on. We have a couple of these which actually fit with our helmets and don't interfere too much with the microphones so we can still talk to each other and on the radios. The manufacturer is working with us to get enough for all of us shortly. They breathe a little easier than the disposable masks, that should help when the temperature is 100 degrees or more.
 

Bill Heath

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My wife has nurse friends who have passed out due to mask wearing during their shifts. They are being told to wear them continuously, not just around contagious payments as they were designed to be used. 12 hours on your feet with a mask on is not good for you.
I have a friend whose friends say to document your story of people passing out from mask wearing. Don't spread urban myths.
 

HarborFlightVicki

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For those so inclined...this article covers a 2013 study on the use of HOMEMADE masks that might be created in times of need. I have not read it in some time, but I think I recall the lowest efficacy rate was somewhere in the range of forty or fifty percent. Given the goal is reduction of viral loading, forty to fifty percent is admirable. Combined with other social distancing acts and a focus on hygiene measures, even a homemade, comfortable mask could make the difference in life or death to someone.

Furthermore, as one who has worked in healthcare and with patients whose conditions made standard hygiene practices unlikely or non-existent, I can tell you from my experience that even a basic disposable mask protects a caregiver and/or the patient. I have been exposed to numerous pathogens over the past twenty-plus years... I myself have had to work while ill...and best possible practices in those incidents have meant the lack of disease transmission. I have witnessed this lack of transmission too many times for it to be simple coincidence.

Oh, one more thing... I cannot wear a N95 mask. I do own one. But I become dizzy, and I would likely collapse if I continued to wear it.
 

Tyeeking

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Common, man, you should know better than to post a non-peer-reviewed article, but a non-doctor, who is making a strawman argument against all masks.
The advise to wear cloth masks in public has little to do with personal protection, and EVERYTHING to do with protecting others from the viral particles YOU may be shedding unknowingly.

In a nutshell, this:
A “non-peer-reviewed article”? When did articles have to be peer reviewed. It’s an opinion piece that cites multiple clinical trials as the source of the opinion. Argue against the opinion but don’t misrepresent what was posted.
 

Tyeeking

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Any scientific study that begins with berating the "mainstream media" is immediately suspect.
True but it’s not a scientific study but rather an opinion piece that cites several scientific studies as the source of the opinion. The scientific studies cited in the opinion piece do not berate the MSM.
 

afadeev

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A “non-peer-reviewed article”? When did articles have to be peer reviewed.
Peer review occurs when an article is submitted for publication to a reputable industry journal/magazine.
It's a fundamental filter in validating that the statements that are being communicated are based on solid evidence that hasn't been faked, legitimate references that haven't been misinterpreted, and sound logical reasoning.

Submitting your work for peer review is a standard practice for all reputable scientists that have something to say, which is how the author is attempting to present himself with his bio.
Basically, any scientific discourse that hasn't passed the test of peer review, is assumed to be suspect, and unreliable.

It’s an opinion piece that cites multiple clinical trials as the source of the opinion. Argue against the opinion but don’t misrepresent what was posted.
The article is based on a straw-man argument that public mask wearing is intended to protect wearers from the virus.
It isn't.

Citations are unconfirmed, since the author bypassed peer-review process.
 

ChicagoDave

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Yeah, I'll go with the CDC recommendations over some article from someone posting a non-peer reviewed article on the internet. Just because the CDC story has evolved over time doesn't make them wrong - it makes them smart for adapting to new information and new feedback from the real environment. Plus we have a *ton* of experience from Asia where mask are warn all the time now.

I wore a mask when I went out on Saturday. The mask was kind of hot outdoors but I wore it to keep others safe. Plus it gave me a great tan line around my mouth and nose :cool:
 
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