# Mask Wearing Rant

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#### kuririn

##### BARGeezer
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Currently listed as unavailable.
6 color options are listed. First three are unavailable, next will be available in a couple of weeks, last two are in stock.
I like that it is reusable/machine washable.

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#### prfesser

##### Lifetime Supporter
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This one is making the rounds. It is highly likely that he infected others.

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#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
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This one is making the rounds. It is highly likely that he infected others.

View attachment 424055
Prayers for his friends and family and hopes for a full recovery for anyone he may have infected,

Like the Heinlein quote.

Looks like the best combo protection is a face shield (protects you from other, not sure how, maybe because you touch your face less or it avoids airborne particles from alighting on your eye surfaces, from which it is a quick pathway through the nasolacrimal duct to the nasal mucosa) and a simple mask (protects others from you.)

Had frustrating experience at WallyWorld today. First, within the last year they rearranged the store, I used to know exactly where everything was and now takes me longer to find everything. Second, they closed one entrance. Explain this to me. All the aisles are marked “one way” which I get, as easier to social distance if people,are moving is same direction. But to then have 100% of people pass through the same foyer on the way in and out?

Masks are required for shoppers (except kids), but again on the theme that started this thread, many people (including the employees) don’t wear them over nose and mouth.

Let’s pray that vaccine comes out soon and that it works.

On well, guess need to really on my favorite Bible verse,

1 Kings 18:1, “And it came to pass”

Eventually we will overcome this, or at least most of us will.

#### DanielLW

##### Well-Known Member
Had frustrating experience at WallyWorld today. First, within the last year they rearranged the store, I used to know exactly where everything was and now takes me longer to find everything. Second, they closed one entrance. Explain this to me. All the aisles are marked “one way” which I get, as easier to social distance if people,are moving is same direction. But to then have 100% of people pass through the same foyer on the way in and out?
Walmart was practically designed to spread covid. They design the store in a way that one must go through the entire store to get places people normally go when shopping. This is why the pharmacy and toiletries are always on the opposite side of the store... so that you have to walk throughthe entire store and possibly make impulse buys.

#### CalebJ

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Walmart was practically designed to spread covid. They design the store in a way that one must go through the entire store to get places people normally go when shopping. This is why the pharmacy and toiletries are always on the opposite side of the store... so that you have to walk throughthe entire store and possibly make impulse buys.
Most Walmart's I've been into have the pharmacy up front.

#### afadeev

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Had frustrating experience at WallyWorld today.
Walmart has been the last remaining place where one can encounter lines in NJ. We missed closing time @Costco the other day, and decided to stop by Walmart on the way home. Line at the entrance stretched all the way around the corner of the building, and then another 80-100 yards. Unreal!
We got back in the car and left.

Second, they closed one entrance. Explain this to me. All the aisles are marked “one way” which I get, as easier to social distance if people,are moving is same direction. But to then have 100% of people pass through the same foyer on the way in and out?
I asked about that once, and the explanation was - shortage of employees that would be required to monitor the entrances!
In the past, a good portion of greeters and checkout clerks were retirees . These days, they are nowhere to be seen, for the obvious reasons.

The same reason why WM and Target have stopped stocking products that require assembly (e.g.: bicycles, more complex furniture).
The risk/reward value proposition of working at Walmart/Target has taken a major hit. The obvious answer is to raise the hourly comp rates, but that hasn't happened yet. Until then, local stores are working with skeleton crews, and many are closing earlier to restock shelves with day-shift employees.

It is, what it is.

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#### Winston

##### Lorenzo von Matterhorn
More contagious COVID-19 strain is spreading in Houston
The mutated strain is being found in nearly 80% of the COVID-19 cases analyzed by Baylor College of Medicine
7 Jul 2020

Evidence growing that Houston's main coronavirus strain is more contagious than original
July 4, 2020

Confirmation of this:

29 April 2020
Tracking changes in SARS-CoV-2 Spike: evidence that D614G increases infectivity of the COVID-19 virus

SARS-CoV-2 Spike mutations: evidence for increased infectivity of D614G - Los Alamos National Lab - 2 Jul 2020

#### Winston

##### Lorenzo von Matterhorn
Journal of Infectious Diseases - Jul 2020
The role of community-wide wearing of face mask for control of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) epidemic due to SARS-CoV-2

We assessed the effect of community-wide mask usage to control coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) in Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR).

The COVID-19 incidence in HKSAR (129.0 per million population) was significantly lower (p<0.001) than that of Spain (2983.2), Italy (2250.8), Germany (1241.5), France (1151.6), U.S. (1102.8), U.K. (831.5), Singapore (259.8), and South Korea (200.5). The compliance of face mask usage by HKSAR general public was 96.6% (range: 95.7% to 97.2%). We observed 11 COVID-19 clusters in recreational ‘mask-off’ settings compared to only 3 in workplace ‘mask-on’ settings (p = 0.036 by Chi square test of goodness-of-fit).

Conclusion

Community-wide mask wearing may contribute to the control of COVID-19 by reducing the amount of emission of infected saliva and respiratory droplets from individuals with subclinical or mild COVID-19.

May 12, 2020
New Study Shows That This One Thing Could Cause 80% Decrease In COVID-19 Cases

A recent scientific study shows that one simple maneuver could reduce COVID-19 cases by as much as 80%. An international team of scientists has introduced new models to provide interactive representation of various options and effects - but none more powerful than this one. While the US continues to reopen businesses, what is the one thing that could further reduce the spread of the virus?

Based on research and scientific models from UC Berkley’s International Computer Science Institute and Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, wearing masks can cut the incidence of cases by as much as 80%. “I felt like this was pretty urgent,” says lead researcher, Dr. Dekai Wu (or as he is more commonly known, just DeKai), pointing to a living example of why his scientific model shows significant promise.

On March 6 in Japan, a country of 126 million, 21 people died of COVID-19. On the same day, 2,129 people died in the US - over 10 times the deaths in Japan. (The US population is only 2.6 times greater by comparison). While America begins reopening, Japan never closed. As I write these words, Japan shows no new cases, with only 624 deaths. Today, the US added 14,325 cases, despite tweets from the White House that nationwide numbers are declining. The USA continues to lead the world: 781 new deaths today bring the total US number to 81,568, according to the Worldometer coronavirus website.

The Land of the Rising Sun has had no lockdown, no stopped subways and most businesses have remained open. Social distancing measures have been in place, but by and large the Japanese economy has remained mostly unchecked, with minimal overall impact from COVID-19 (relative to the United States).

June 26, 2020
Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

What may have finally convinced the CDC to change its guidance in favor of masks were rising disease prevalence and a clearer understanding that both pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission are possible – even common. Studies have found that viral load peaks in the days before symptoms begin and that speaking is enough to expel virus-carrying droplets.

“I think the biggest thing with COVID now that shapes all of this guidance on masks is that we can’t tell who’s infected,” said Chin-Hong. “You can’t look in a crowd and say, oh, that person should wear mask. There’s a lot of asymptomatic infection, so everybody has to wear a mask.”

There are several strands of evidence supporting the efficacy of masks.

One category of evidence comes from laboratory studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them. An experiment using high-speed video found that hundreds of droplets ranging from 20 to 500 micrometers were generated when saying a simple phrase, but that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth. Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols.

#### Marc_G

##### Well-Known Member
File this under "better late than never:"

(posted to show that now even Trump gets the need for masks; no political arguments please)

#### boatgeek

##### Well-Known Member
File this under "better late than never:"

View attachment 424182

(posted to show that now even Trump gets the need for masks; no political arguments please)
I saw another picture from the same day, and had two immediate thoughts. First, that mask doesn’t look very comfortable. It pulls pretty tight across the nose. If it had more shape in it, it would hang from the ears and the nose and not push into your face as much. Second, they’re making no attempt to adjust a nose wire to push air down and to the sides (or through the mask). That means it’s going to be even less comfortable because you’ll have a wind blowing into your eyeballs every time you exhale. It’s not clear to me whether the mask has an adjustable nose wire or not. Either way, the experience of wearing a mask for that photo op is unlikely to encourage him to wear one in the future.

#### AdAstraPerAspera

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
One thing I'd like to rant about masks is this: my wife, who is a pharmacist, is required to wear a mask while in the pharmacy. The company provides these junky KN-95 masks, but is stingy as to quantity, forcing them to reuse them for days at a time. She also has to wear a face shield when she comes to the front of the pharmacy to talk to patients/ring out at the register. All that AND she is behind a massive plexiglass barrier. After wearing that mask since late March, anywhere from 6 to 11 hours a day, she is developing asthma. She comes home woozy and lightheaded from having to wear a mask all the time. Her doc, who has previously put her on an inhaler just to use as needed when allergies strike/when she is snoring too loudly, now had to put her on an steroid inhaler, because her lungs are pretty irritated, and the levels of one of her white cells was quite elevated, indicating a problem.

Get this: the cashiers at the grocery store she works in get the "lesser" blue facecup type mask issued to them, and ZERO of them have gotten sick. But my wife has to wear the mask that is giving her such problems. I've told her to grab what the cashiers are using and if anyone bitches, say "I'll be glad to get a Dr's note saying I can't wear a mask at all, since I'm developing asthma from your mask". She did report the lesser mask was easier to breathe in. I don't want her to have a permanent problem with her lungs because of this, needless to say. But since she is fairly high risk due to age and taking immune suppressant drugs for psoritic arthritis, and we certainly don't want her to get sick either.
This.

Studies have shown that prolonged mask wearing is bad for you. They have measured blood oxygen level drops in surgical teams that are "only" wearing the lesser surgical masks. The N95 ones are guaranteed to be worse. (The surgical masks are needed in a surgical setting for the protection of the person who is cut open and exposed internally. Getting the surgeon's spit inside of the patient's body is seriously bad news. This in no way compares to what the vast majority of us do on a daily basis, even if we go out, interacting with the public, some of whom may be sick or immuno-compromised.)

If we are wearing masks, we need to change them regularly. Stuff accumulates inside them that can make you sick. From higher viral loads, to simple mold and mildew. The WHO was recommending changing your mask as soon as it gets damp from the moisture in your breath. (I was given a single disposable mask at work and told to make it last 30 days!)

If she has asthma, she should bring this up as an Americans with Disabilities Act issue. Penalties are step for them not accommodating her, and she is not required to even tell them what her disability is, although that might help, depending on the situation.

The rest of us who work and are being asked to wear these things all day need to be fighting it, too. I don't want to develop health issues because of some excessive mask wearing policy. Plus, if I get light headed and overheated at work, I could fall and bust my head open, land in water, or simply break some very sensitive and expensive equipment. It's a safety issue. The mask could also get caught in something in an industrial environment. It will eventually cost much more than paying for the masks, which so many employers are reluctant to do.

We are being told to wear them while no one is around, simply because we are indoors, or in "public". We are being told to wear them while there are physical barriers in place that do more than any mask ever could.

We should be taking precautions, the basic regular flu season stuff: sneezing into our elbows, washing our hands regularly, and staying home if we are sick. Add to that, not going out into massive gatherings of people in close quarters. That's what will help.

We also need people to take care of themselves. Get exercise. Eat right. Spend time in the sun and fresh air. That way, when, not if, they get this, or any other bug, they beat it no problem, without ever going to the hospital.

#### CalebJ

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Are there legitimate studies that show issues with prolonged mask wearing?

#### timbucktoo

##### Well-Known Member
Staff member
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Global Mod
Studies have shown that prolonged mask wearing is bad for you.
Any data or links to back up that statement?

#### NateB

##### Well-Known Member
I was just fitted for HALO respirator, it is similar to a self contained PAPR but uses a small face mask instead of a hood. It has a 60 lpm flow with positive pressure and a filter on the back of the unit. It is much more comfortable than wearing an N-95 all day and easier to move around in than a PAPR. We still aren't sure if they will work in the aircraft, but will be used by the ground crews. I don't know how expensive they are (probably very), but it might be a good option for those of us who have to wear a mask for prolonged periods.

#### dr wogz

##### Fly caster
I believe the 'wear it all day' is code for:
"You're supposed to wear it when you can't physically distance / keep your distance from others, and are likely to forget to put it on / take it off as required, and will likely just forget to wear it outright.. so you might as well wear it all day to ensure you are wearing it when you need to be wearing it!"

#### Bill S

##### Well-Known Member
I was just fitted for HALO respirator, it is similar to a self contained PAPR but uses a small face mask instead of a hood. It has a 60 lpm flow with positive pressure and a filter on the back of the unit. It is much more comfortable than wearing an N-95 all day and easier to move around in than a PAPR. We still aren't sure if they will work in the aircraft, but will be used by the ground crews. I don't know how expensive they are (probably very), but it might be a good option for those of us who have to wear a mask for prolonged periods.

#### cwbullet

##### Obsessed with Rocketry
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In my city, it is currently a fixable offense. I started buying 50 packs of masks.

#### Winston

##### Lorenzo von Matterhorn
Mask resistance during a pandemic isn’t new – in 1918 many Americans were ‘slackers’
July 13, 2020

[snip]

In places where mask orders were successfully implemented, noncompliance and outright defiance quickly became a problem. Many businesses, unwilling to turn away shoppers, wouldn’t bar unmasked customers from their stores. Workers complained that masks were too uncomfortable to wear all day. One Denver salesperson refused because she said her “nose went to sleep” every time she put one on. Another said she believed that “an authority higher than the Denver Department of Health was looking after her well-being.” As one local newspaper put it, the order to wear masks “was almost totally ignored by the people; in fact, the order was cause of mirth.” The rule was amended to apply only to streetcar conductors – who then threatened to strike. A walkout was averted when the city watered down the order yet again. Denver endured the remainder of the epidemic without any measures protecting public health.

In Seattle, streetcar conductors refused to turn away unmasked passengers. Noncompliance was so widespread in Oakland that officials deputized 300 War Service civilian volunteers to secure the names and addresses of violators so they could be charged. When a mask order went into effect in Sacramento, the police chief instructed officers to “Go out on the streets, and whenever you see a man without a mask, bring him in or send for the wagon.” Within 20 minutes, police stations were flooded with offenders. In San Francisco, there were so many arrests that the police chief warned city officials he was running out of jail cells. Judges and officers were forced to work late nights and weekends to clear the backlog of cases.

Many who were caught without masks thought they might get away with running an errand or commuting to work without being nabbed. In San Francisco, however, initial noncompliance turned to large-scale defiance when the city enacted a second mask ordinance in January 1919 as the epidemic spiked anew. Many decried what they viewed as an unconstitutional infringement of their civil liberties. On January 25, 1919, approximately 2,000 members of the “Anti-Mask League” packed the city’s old Dreamland Rink for a rally denouncing the mask ordinance and proposing ways to defeat it. Attendees included several prominent physicians and a member of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors.

It is difficult to ascertain the effectiveness of the masks used in 1918. Today, we have a growing body of evidence that well-constructed cloth face coverings are an effective tool in slowing the spread of COVID-19. It remains to be seen, however, whether Americans will maintain the widespread use of face masks as our current pandemic continues to unfold. Deeply entrenched ideals of individual freedom, the lack of cohesive messaging and leadership on mask wearing, and pervasive misinformation have proven to be major hindrances thus far, precisely when the crisis demands consensus and widespread compliance. This was certainly the case in many communities during the fall of 1918. That pandemic ultimately killed about 675,000 people in the U.S. Hopefully, history is not in the process of repeating itself today.

#### afadeev

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Yep. In my area, willfully not wearing a mask in public is a misdemeanor and a \$500 fine. The business owners, not the boys in blue, are expected to enforce it.
We went to the beach (Joisey shore) last weekend, and there was a material increase in mask wearing from our previous visit. From around 2% to ~35% of the folks sporting masks now.

For the first time ever, I witnessed someone getting ticketed for refusing to wear a mask.
Two officers were patrolling the beach (masked), and stopped by a large group of teenagers camped out in a circle (mask-free). They were initially too far from us to hear the dialog, but a few minutes later some of the teens decided it would be a smart move to start raising voices and point fingers at the cops in disagreement. So we got to hear the last part of the conversation, which culminated in everyone getting ID-ed and ticketed for refusing to wear a mask while not social distancing, and congregating in public.

Not sure what the penalty is, but a trip to the municipal court should be enough for them to re-evaluate their priorities.

Well, that's just great. Walmart greeters now have to be the mask police and bouncers.
True, but I don't see how this is any different than your typical "no shoes, no shirt, no service" signs that are ubiquitously present at most shops and restaurants.
Just add a mask to the list.

If a customer is too much of a d*ck to comply with the above requirements, or wants to make fake constitutional claims about rights to not follow a dress code, then good riddance.

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#### Funkworks

##### Well-Known Member
Today, I found out that if you wear a mask over your mouth and leave your nose out of it, you can breath normally without fogging up sunglasses.

So that might be an option in some circumstances. Like when taking a long walk on a busy sidewalk.

#### OverTheTop

##### Well-Known Member
Today, I found out that if you wear a mask over your mouth and leave your nose out of it, you can breath normally without fogging up sunglasses.

So that might be an option in some circumstances. Like when taking a long walk on a busy sidewalk.
So what filters your vapour-trail?

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#### CalebJ

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I thought you were getting us a legitimate source on prolonged mask wearing being harmful?

Instead you brought a bizarre pseudo scientific editorial from a conspiracy theory website.

#### AdAstraPerAspera

##### Well-Known Member
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From one of the numerous links you couldn't be bothered to read, study shows headaches for starters...
Funny, "bizarre pseudo scientific editorial" cited NIH.

#### Jmhepworth

##### Well-Known Member
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Anytime I see someone say “the science is conclusive,” I disregard what they say. The whole point of science is that it’s never conclusive. hypotheses get tested and changed all the time.

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
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Today, I found out that if you wear a mask over your mouth and leave your nose out of it, you can breath normally without fogging up sunglasses.

So that might be an option in some circumstances. Like when taking a long walk on a busy sidewalk.
Even better, just put it over your chin, leave nose and mouth outside (like 1/2 the customers in our local Walmart and about a third of the employees. ). MUCH more comfortable, no problems with breathing at all,

Of course, as was the whole point of this thread, the whole point of WEARING THE MASK IN THE FIRST PLACE is to cover YOUR NOSE AND YOUR MOUTH (caps are used to emphasize the “rant” part.). But you are correct, it is much more convenient to leave either or both uncovered. But make sure you protect your chin.

I wish Frances Scott Key had added another verse to the Star Spangled Banner.

America is definitely the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.

I wish he had added something about common sense and courtesy, but perhaps Americans then were lacking those traits just as they are now, so it wasn’t then (and isn’t now) applicable. I mean, if there is even a chance you might save one life by wearing a mask, isn’t it worth it?

Other countries are getting this under control. Whatever they are doing, we should be doing. Part of that is wearing masks. Apparently that is just too inconvenient for we Free Brave Americans.

#### boatgeek

##### Well-Known Member
This.

Studies have shown that prolonged mask wearing is bad for you. They have measured blood oxygen level drops in surgical teams that are "only" wearing the lesser surgical masks. The N95 ones are guaranteed to be worse.

<extended discussion snipped>
From one of the numerous links you couldn't be bothered to read, study shows headaches for starters...
Funny, "bizarre pseudo scientific editorial" cited NIH.
I see that the (paywalled) study you cite shows an increase in the number of headaches among the group wearing masks. Naturally, you've read the whole study, so could you tell us what the percentage increase in headaches was? A 5% increase would be a lot different than a 70% increase. It's also worth noting that the study here as well as the SOTT website are given as evidence that masks are not effective. The Japan mask study specifically looked at whether the masks protected the wearer. SOTT also is all about protecting the wearer. That's not the reason people are asked to wear masks--they're to protect other people from the wearer.

The SOTT website also blindly accepts the fallacy that if it is possible for the virus to bypass the mask, then masks are by definition useless. There is no partial protection in that world, but there is in reality.

Of course, you also haven't given any evidence about lowered blood oxygen, which was your original claim. Feel free to do that work as well.

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#### Jmhepworth

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
If someone is really worried about reduced oxygen levels from wearing a mask, they could get a pulse oximeter, test frequently, and go somewhere a mask isn’t required if oxygen levels get too low. It won’t, unless there is some other underlying medical issue.