Mars Lander 3X Build Thread

[David]

The photo on the left shows two CRs epoxied together to form the floor of the descent stage. Eight tee-nuts are hammered and glued into place. Reason will be explained later. The tube to the side of the rings in the first photo is the motor tube. It fits through the big center hole in the descent stage floor. The second biggest hole is for the av-bay. Later.

There are multiple CRs and perimeter bands to be married just so. Also the CRs are many; you look for the identifying number on the blueprint and match to the one burned into the plywood ring; make sure the number is facing up.

I found some of the best tools are in the kitchen...heavy cast iron cookware.

 

[David]

The hinge connects the vertical fiberglass rods to the legs. I added an optional 6-32 bolt, so the legs are removable for transport or repair.

If I had to do it again, I'd probably drill the bolt hole horizontally across the leg and hinge. Might be stronger considering direction of the landing forces. I think this will be OK, though.

More details of the landing gear complex soon.

 

[David]

Previously I showed eight T-nuts installed in pairs along the descent stage floor CR. This shows what happens with the T-nuts. Eight hooks are screwed in on the top-side of the CR, into the t-nuts. These hold the thick rubber bands that give the springy action to the landing gear. The rubber bands are hooked on one side, snaked through the landing leg hole, and then hooked on the other side. This is similar to the original Estes Mars Lander. Flash back.

There is also a thick rubber bumper under the leg; you can see it up against the coupler edge.

 

[MasonH]

I think that if I were to build one of these, I would be scared to fly it. It is going to be beautiful when done!

 

[David]

Bolted in two charge holders. Later I'll show how these vent into the parachute tube.

 

[David]

Nozzle structure is composed of three rings and four small ribs, as seen in the first photos, on the left side of the photo. I held it tight with a single rubber band around the ribs while the epoxy cured.

The larger structure shows the eight larger ribs connecting two CRs. See how the pencil line on the tube is used to line up a notch on each ring. The larger ascent stage shroud will wrap around this in the near future. The parts are amazing. A little sanding, and they snap together with tight precision. A bit of epoxy and this guy is solid. The body tube in the middle is the parachute tube. A this point it is just a place-holder for the rib assembly...not quite yet in the final position. Later.

Last photo: reminder to use proper gear when cutting and sanding fiberglass pieces. Also a reminder, look closely...Ducks rule.

 

[David]

The shroud that wraps around the nozzle framework requires the attachment of 36 small independent pieces. This gives a nice professional, relief-finished appearance. From your right to left in the photos, the linear strips are detached one at a time from the laser cut tagboard (a strong, slightly waxey-covered thick cardboard material). Each is glued (I used carpenter's glue and a tweezer) to a specifically-marked location on the nozzle shroud. Do this before you start curving the shroud into it's final, cylindrical/conical shape. One-at-a-time is important...because the strips are not all the same size.

Next; Curve this thing into a nice conical nozzle shroud and attach to the wood frame.

 

[Ben Awes]

David, I am behind you in some of the build, but I have gotten to this step. The engine nozzle shroud on mine is not fitting real well around the framework. The first time I built this it fit better - same part - not sure what's going on? I did use the "mist with a spray bottle method" which works well. I give it a good mist on both side, give it a some seconds until is softens the tagboard a bit and then it rolls around the framework fairly easily. I lightly clamp it in place for a good day so that the tagboard fully dries and shazam, its nearly a conical nozzle shroud. It's not yet a completely uniform curve because the overlay parts make it double thickness in those locations and so they don't curve as easily. Will be misting it again. Don't know if the tagboard shrunk from the wetting or? but it does not fully close when wrapped around the framework. Hmmmmm?

I know that the first time around I test fit the shrouds around all their associated frameworks before I glued the seam together, but I did glue the seam together on all the shrouds before I put them on their frameworks. There is just no good way that i could figure out to clamp continuous pressure along the entire seam when it is ON the framework. This was possible OFF the framework because I have full access the inside surface. I know that on the descent stage shroud I had to make the shroud a bit longer before I seamed it, but on the latest kits i adjusted the shroud circumference. I might have to add a little to the nozzle shroud as well..... Let me know what you find out.

 

[David]

Interesting challenge. But all problems have solutions. I have a few ideas. I'll let you know. Appreciate the heads-up.

 

[David]

The nozzle shroud problem: it is a bit too short to wrap around wooden frame and have the edges butt as designed.

So. The nozzle shroud needed some lengthening/stretching. And the water sprayer misting technique wasn’t getting me enough additional length.

After testing a few different approaches with scrap tagboard material, I settled on a solution. Using a teakettle on the stove, I applied some steamy moisture to the shroud just a little at the time. Too much, as I found with the scrap, could really distort to material. But a little warmth/wet at a time, the material could be gradually, carefully stretched over the curved edge of the kitchen countertop. Slowly achieved the extra length. Once I got close to the length needed, I wrapped the shroud and brought the edges together, glued a piece of scrap under the butted edges and clamped.

After 24 hours of drying time (carpenters glue), I slipped the shroud over the frame. It needed just a tiny bit more room. A little more light steam, a little very light pressure with the frame inserted (repeated several times), and the shroud was in place, right to the top of the frame where it belongs. Glued into place on the frame. Not too bad. If you use this approach, practice with scrap and go very, very easy with the steam.

I’m starting to prep the overlays on the remaining shrouds. Will probably finish this phase over the weekend.

David

 

[David]

A few more details about the nozzle shroud joint. A piece of scrap tagboard is cut, about 3/4 inch wide and as long as the joint. This is glued on the underside of the joint, holding the edges of the shroud where it butts together. It is the key to a strong joint, but the downside is the added thickness. You now have twice the thickness at the joint as the rest of the shroud, potentially interfering with the nesting over the wood frame. Once the joint is dry, but before you glue the shroud to the frame, carefully peel away layers of the tagboard/cardboard material. You can thin it out quite a bit, without affecting the joint itself. The photo shows the thinned strip, and how the assembly now neatly fits the wood frame.

David

 

[sodmeister]

This is a very interesting build thread ! I find myself glued to the pictures for minutes at a time ,absorbing all the details and parts ,absolutely beautiful !

Keep up the fine work !


Paul T

 

[T-Rex]

Another kit added to the "Must have" list...

 

[cvanc]

Another kit added to the "Must have" list...

Oh my God tell me about it! I just looked at this thread for the first time and I am stunned by the complexity and quality of this kit. Simply incredible.

(Now how much of a tax refund am I gettin' again? I'd better check! :rofl: )

 

[sodmeister]

Another kit added to the "Must have" list...

No kidding !

Does it ever end ?



Paul T

 

[David]

The nozzle shroud was by far the most challenging. The other three went together without issue. Shown here is the smallest of the remaining three: the descent stage shroud. You start by glueing the numerous overlays in place. These provide incredible detail to the surface. Just takes tweezers and some patience. The curving of the shrouds also takes patience. If you go slow, the shrouds end up nearly perfect. You lightly mist the inside of the shrouds with water. Lightly. Then provide a little curving pressure over the rounder edge of a countertop or similar. Let dry. Repeat. Repeat. Once you develop a feel for it, a little strategic finger pressure can help where the overlays provide more stiffness. I also used the curvature of a rolling pin in a few places. Eventually, you get a shroud that is "over-curved", which is what you want. Cut a backer strip, apply a little carpenters glue, and clamp carefully.

More photos soon.

David

 

[David]

The descent stage shroud has been curved slowly, slowly, and "seamed"...a strip of tagboard cut and glued behind the seam. The proper centering ring is positioned in the narrower hole of the shroud and glued flush. Once everything dries for 24 hours, peal off several layers of the tagboard piece underneath the seam...it needs to be as thin as possible, while maintaining its strength. Four ribs are positioned and glued as shown, providing reinforcement to the module. The holes in the CR are for the Av bay, four long bolts (more later on this), and the launch rod.

 

[David]

Amazing detail. Dozens of these small overlays, which will give the final authentic appearance. Patience...like building a ship model.

 

[David]

As you glue the detailed overlays onto the shrouds, every so often I would apply a flat board with heavy weight in order to press the overlays firmly onto the shroud surface. After the work is done for the day, a little adult beverage.

 

[David]

Lightly misting the shroud and slowly curving the surface using several approaches, resulted in a near-perfect conical shroud.

 

[David]

While waiting for the various shrouds to dry and curve, I assembled the av bay. Inside is a Raven 3 and 9-volt battery holder. Pretty straightforward. I'll post photos of the Raven hook up if folks want to see. Let me know.

 

[David]

Command module shroud after slow, careful misting with water and carefully curving, repeat. I dry-set the appropriate rings in place to ensure size and shape. It is going to be a perfect fit.

 

[David]

At the end of the weekend, here's where I am with the major components. Some components in the photo are dry-fitted to get the general idea, and not in final position. Coming along nicely, though. May be a few days or so before I move on. Work intervenes.

David

 

[Ben Awes]

View attachment 118473

At the end of the weekend, here's where I am with the major components. Some components in the photo are dry-fitted to get the general idea, and not in final position. Coming along nicely, though. May be a few days or so before I move on. Work intervenes.

David

David, great progress - wow! I designed the kit and you'd think I'd have a good idea of how to build it, but I am learning a ton from you and am saving all the photos for reference as I go along on my own build.

I am very interested in your paint scheme - is the black the final color of your engine nozzle, and silver for the landing pads? Have you chosen a specific year of issue to duplicate?

Ben

 

[thobin]

OK I have a confession to make, when I first saw this kit my first impression was that it was way over priced! I now know that I was sadly mistaken. This is an impressive kit! While I may not be able to afford it at this time it appears to be worth every penny. I now have a new goal to scrape up the money some how and buy this kit.

BTW Your build skills are equal to the task it looks great!


TA

 

[David]

Thanks, Ben.

Re: paint scheme. Going with my non-conformist side. Black nozzle. Silver pads, with black horizontal inlays. Legs, orange except the piston, silver. White everywhere else. I know...you're probably cringing, because that looks more like the semroc version! Like the Stones say, "But I like it." I did find an Estes ML box art with black nozzle.

 

[David]

OK I have a confession to make, when I first saw this kit my first impression was that it was way over priced! I now know that I was sadly mistaken. This is an impressive kit! While I may not be able to afford it at this time it appears to be worth every penny. I now have a new goal to scrape up the money some how and buy this kit.

BTW Your build skills are equal to the task it looks great!


TA

Thanks, TA.

David

 

[Ben Awes]

Thanks, Ben.

Re: paint scheme. Going with my non-conformist side. Black nozzle. Silver pads, with black horizontal inlays. Legs, orange except the piston, silver. White everywhere else. I know...you're probably cringing, because that looks more like the semroc version! Like the Stones say, "But I like it." I did find an Estes ML box art with black nozzle.

David - I'm not cringing at all, it is absolutely about what you like. The ML original box did show a black nozzle and red landing pads with a black wrap AND black antenna dish, and red pistons.

In '69 the catalog had two photos of the kit, both had a black nozzle, one shows the pads all red, one looks like red with black wrap. One show black antenna, one shows white.

In '70 the catalog page again showed two photos with the same color schemes as '69, except now both photos shows the pads with black wrap (however one of them its hard to tell, the entire pad could be black, or silver with black wrap).

In the '71 catalog the nozzle turned red and was never shown black again (except the box always showed a photo of the black nozzle with black antenna, red pistons).

In '71 and '72 the pads were silver with black wrap and the antenna was white, pistons silver.

In '73 and beyond the pads were red with silver wrap and the antenna was white, nozzle red, pistons silver.

There are a lot of color scheme options, they all look kind of cool. I simply chose the color scheme that was in the catalog when I bought the kit in '77 (but i kind of like the black nozzle).

One question i have always had is the shade of red - is it red or orange? I do not have an original box, all I have are the catalogs from those years and it looks pretty red.

I look forward to seeing yours painted (before I make my final color decisions .

Ben

 

[David]

Ben, from your research and your own builds, have you found a particular brand and color of red/orange?

David

 

[Ben Awes]

Ben, from your research and your own builds, have you found a particular brand and color of red/orange?

David

David, I just did some more research, and I don't know how I missed it before. here are two links if you have not seen them already - one has every page of every catalog as a pdf. the second has tif's of all the pages to the original ML instructions. The instructions clearly state that the recommended color is International Orange for legs and nozzle, silver for pads with black wrap, silver for pistons, black for the aft nozzle bulkhead, and white everywhere else. There is no date on the instructions so who knows when they are from, but it does seem to match the 71-72 catalog photos. I wonder if the instructions changed after this to show orange pads, and did the early boxes happen to change to show this scheme as well or did they even have boxes for the early ML? What was the early packaging?

https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/k-43.htm

https://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/rockets.html (scroll down a bit to find the estes catalogs)

I am not pretty sure I am going to go with International Orange and match the instructions - though I am not sure how the pads will look silver. I don't really like it looking like it is wearing socks.

Ben