# Marine F-35B Crashes After Collision With KC-130 Over California; All Aircrew Recovered Safely

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#### Winston

##### Lorenzo von Matterhorn
Marine F-35B Crashes After Collision With KC-130 Over California; All Aircrew Recovered Safely
29 Sep 2020

#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
So world’s most advanced, maneuverable fighter plane can’t avoid running into a C-130 flying straight and level In bright daylight.

The Corp is going to have a big job cleaning up all that fuel, personally I don’t care for lettuce with kerosene flavor.

M

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
Thank God all safe.

Definitely going to be an interesting and expensive story.

#### Winston

##### Lorenzo von Matterhorn
So world’s most advanced, maneuverable fighter plane can’t avoid running into a C-130 flying straight and level In bright daylight.

The Corp is going to have a big job cleaning up all that fuel, personally I don’t care for lettuce with kerosene flavor.

M
Yeah, something's weird there. This reminds me that I need to look for more info about any suspected causes IF any have been mentioned yet. Military aircraft incident investigations usually don't leak much, I suspect because, especially an incident with a new, stealth aircraft, there may be a classified data element PLUS, unlike with political leaks, there WILL be serious consequences for any leakers.

#### Initiator001

##### Well-Known Member
Air-to-air refueling of aircraft is one of the most difficult and dangerous procedures undertaken by military aircraft.

History has many examples of aircraft incidents during aerial refueling. The most well-known is the collision between a KC-135 tanker and a B-52 over Spain in the 1960s. Both aircraft were destroyed and four Mk 28 nuclear bombs fell clear and had to be recovered.

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
I’ve seen the mating dance from both ends (incredibly beautiful but weird view out the back tail window of a KC-135, you’re watching the world flying down and away from you) as a SAC Flight Doc, refueling BUFFs, 141s, C5s, F15s, F16s, and took a couple rides in C5s to watch from the cockpit of the receiving end, definitely a lot scarier from the receiving end. But the KC-135 refueling is sort of the opposite of the KC-130.

In blunt parlance, for the 135, the tanker is Male*, plugging the nozzle into the Female receptacle in the receiver aircraft. Basically the receiver pilot jockeys into a “window” where the 135 boom operator “flies” (yes, the boom has airfoiled surfaces) the nozzle to the receptacle and pushes it in. I can imagine it being a bit hair raising for especially for the fighter where the receptacle is in the roof of the aircraft just behind the cockpit, as the nozzle is passing just a few feet above his or her canopy. Receiver pilot may be a General, but the boom is as likely as not to be a three striper. Advantage to the 135 is a BIG, NOZZLE, can top off fighters quickly. 6500 lbs of fuel a minute. BUFFs carry a lot, so they take longer

But the KC-130 in this analogy is Female. It employs a probe and drogue system. Basically it reels out a hose with a “basket” RECEPTACLE at the end. The Fighter (or Helicopter) RECEIVER extends a Male probe, and the pilot of the RECEIVER literally has to fly the probe into the basket. Advantage to the 130 is it can refuel two aircraft at once, but the refueling rate is much around 4K lbs per minute. But they can refuel two aircraft at once.

Either way, the receiver is always BEHIND the Tanker. So it will be an interesting story to explain how the 130 broke two propellers.

Not criticizing anybody, meconium happens, and all these guys and gals (Airman, Marines, Soldier, and Sailors are heroes in my book. Okay, I admit I used to make fun of the Marines, until I actually WORKED with them, mainly patching them up at Balad Hospital in Iraq during Fallujah campaign, THEN I was quite impressed.)

*KC-135s can also carry a hose and basket for refueling missions where the receivers like helicopters are equipped with probes.

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#### Viperfixr

##### Born Again Rocketeer
TRF Supporter
Investigation will undoubtedly reveal the true cause.

My guess/bet is on human error on the part of the F-35B pilot. Pure guess: more than likely 'showing off' after refueling, like he meant to pass & pull up just ahead of the Herk and pulled too much AoA and clipped the C-130s right wing leading edge/engines (recent Harrier transition--not used to that much AoA available?).

Amazing piloting on the Herk side regardless. I am amazed the Herk actually landed sort of in one piece with all aboard okay. I flew on many USMC C-130Js in Afghanistan, and those aviators are fantastic (not as good as USAF, but...). J models take off like a rocket when lightly loaded.

#### TheTank

##### Well-Known Member
Im wondering how the fighter knocked blades off two engines on one side and then a blade on the outboard engine on the other side. Wow.

#### manixFan

##### Not a rocket scientist
...<snipped>... meconium happens...<snipped>
Ok, I've never heard that expression before. Even though I knew what 'meconium' means, it took me a moment to figure it out. That's going in my book.

Tony

#### UhClem

##### Well-Known Member
Im wondering how the fighter knocked blades off two engines on one side and then a blade on the outboard engine on the other side. Wow.
From the photos I saw, the damage to the left side appears to have happened during the landing. There was one picture from the front with what looked like debris in the distance.

#### manixFan

##### Not a rocket scientist
But there is almost always a public accident report released.
I have spent way too much time over the years reading accident reports, especially of commercial airliner crashes. From the above link I noticed this line: "The mishap pilot (MP) ejected safely but sustained nonlife threatening injuries. The MA (Mishap Aircraft), valued at $175,983,949, rolled, caught fire, and was completely destroyed." They just had to let everyone know how much the plane cost that the pilot had destroyed. Tony PS: Apparently most, if not all, of the military ones state the value of the vehicle lost. If you look at the one involving the F16-J, it was only worth$25 million. A real bargain.=

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
I have spent way too much time over the years reading accident reports, especially of commercial airliner crashes. From the above link I noticed this line: "The mishap pilot (MP) ejected safely but sustained nonlife threatening injuries. The MA (Mishap Aircraft), valued at $175,983,949, rolled, caught fire, and was completely destroyed." They just had to let everyone know how much the plane cost that the pilot had destroyed. Tony PS: Apparently most, if not all, of the military ones state the value of the vehicle lost. If you look at the one involving the F16-J, it was only worth$25 million. A real bargain.=
Human life itself is obviously of inestimable monetary value. The cost of TRAINING a military pilot, especially fighter pilot, is in the millions. Makes cost of training doctors chump change

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
Ok, I've never heard that expression before. Even though I knew what 'meconium' means, it took me a moment to figure it out. That's going in my book.

Tony
I saw it on the license plate of a pediatric ICU nurse.

#### Peartree

##### Cyborg Rocketeer
Staff member
Global Mod
I saw it on the license plate of a pediatric ICU nurse.
That's a lot to fit on a license plate.

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
That's a lot to fit on a license plate.
My bad, it was on the license plate HOLDER

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
My Favorite was a sky blue colored Plymouth Horizon with the license plate saying

BYOND

#### manixFan

##### Not a rocket scientist
Human life itself is obviously of inestimable monetary value. The cost of TRAINING a military pilot, especially fighter pilot, is in the millions. Makes cost of training doctors chump change
According to the US government, it's about \$10 million dollars:

Tony

#### ksaves2

Ok, I've never heard that expression before. Even though I knew what 'meconium' means, it took me a moment to figure it out. That's going in my book.

Tony
Ummm, It’s in utero poop. That’s the most non-vulgar way I can put it. It was a big deal when we had to suck it out of a newborns lungs when I was in med school at delivery of a baby time. Ideally the kid gets out (born) before they do a big time poop in the process and swallow or breathe the stuff in. Kurt

#### manixFan

##### Not a rocket scientist
Ummm, It’s in utero poop. That’s the most non-vulgar way I can put it. It was a big deal when we had to suck it out of a newborns lungs when I was in med school at delivery of a baby time. Ideally the kid gets out (born) before they do a big time poop in the process and swallow or breathe the stuff in. Kurt
I know what meconium means, I just meant I had not ever heard the phrase 'meconium happens' before. I figure folks that don't know can look it up. Meconium in utero is often taken as a sign of stress on the fetus as well, so it's almost a double entendre.

But thanks for the explanation anyway.

Tony