Making N/C out of a tube....?

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DAllen

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So I had a weird idea recently but in doing some puttering around on the inter webs I am stymied by one thing...I want to build as much of a ~8" rocket out of concrete form tubes as possible including the nose cone. I know somewhere on the internet there are patterns to make N/C out of tubes but I can't seem to find them anywhere....anyone know where I can find them?

And the reason I am doing this project is well...not trying to save $$ or anything - guess I am a masochist lol.

-Dave
 
There is a method used by US Rockets to do just that on some of their rockets. The technique actually has a persons name attached to it but I am drawing a blank right now
 

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Thank you dhbarr! There was or is a recent El Lubbo for sale in the description was.... Advanced Information Report #4: Ace Fugue Shroud Method, Pioneered by Korey Kline. https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...rum.com/threads/hpr-kits.169336/#post-2243521

Perfect. That's exactly what I was looking for. Heck...I may put a tailcone on it too. Thanks

Or just 3d print one....thae one pictured is 8.15" diameter. Printed on a stock Creality CR10v2 from PETG in two pieces (each 8" tall, total height 16" including shoulder, 12" exposed length).

Ehhh...someday I'll do something like that but this is not going to be the project for that.
 
I have built a number of these types of Nosecones / Boattails on US Rockets. Basically, what you get is a template that shows you where to cut the tube and then you bend the sections together. I score the joint as well so the spot where the tube bends doesn't get all crunched up. I hold the point together with tape, then smear wood glue in the joints. Once that is dry, I fill in all the seams and gaps generously with epoxy thickened to peanut butter consistency with colloidal silica and low-density filler. I sand the whole thing smooth, then finish it off with a coat of wood filler to fill in any remaining gaps, holes, low spots, etc. They usually turn out pretty good.

For reference, here is the template that comes with the SRB 2.6 for the boattails on the pods:

US Rockets Boatail template.jpg
 
So I had a weird idea recently but in doing some puttering around on the inter webs I am stymied by one thing...I want to build as much of a ~8" rocket out of concrete form tubes as possible including the nose cone. I know somewhere on the internet there are patterns to make N/C out of tubes but I can't seem to find them anywhere....anyone know where I can find them?

And the reason I am doing this project is well...not trying to save $$ or anything - guess I am a masochist lol.

-Dave

I built a few nosecones using the 'flower petal' method (not a real name, just what I called the methods shown above) early in my BARdom. I was using 2 1/2" tubes I was getting from the plotter paper leftovers at work. At this stage, I'll never do it again, but the results can be really good if you are in the mood to trade hours of your life for $. At 8", maybe its worth it and if you're a poor college kid, it might be, but I don't fly 8" rockets and I'm a poor middle-age guy now. . .

While I did it in CAD at the time, the same thing can be done with paper and math, as the ability to carefully cut the thick tubes vs. the error of doing things by hand are minimal, IMO.

One was a standard conical cone, so it was very easy. The other was an upscale of the 1906 Sizzler nosecone, which is either an ogive or 'tweaked' ogive, based on measurements.

To make the flat pattern, I measured the diameters at various locations along the nosecone - base and tip are obvious and I think I did 3 other points roughly equal distances up the cone. Once I had those diameters, convert to circumferences. Next, determine the number of 'petals' you want (I used 8, I think) and divide the base diameter into a bunch of centerlines for each petal. Now, draw lines (or points, but I like lines) at the right height and make the length the circumference of that height divided by 8, centered on the centerlines. Once done, connect the ends of the lines with a straight edge. Pretty close to correct.

The pain in the butt part is cutting that thick cardboard cleanly and then back chamfering the tube so it fits nicely. Then comes gluing it all together with epoxy and eventually filling and doing the real shaping of the cone. When done, it is heavy and strong as #^@$.

I think it is worth doing once, just to say you did it, but I think for an 8" custom nosecone, I'd do the foam/fiberglass method today. But, I'm glad I did it a couple of times and I would do it again if required.

In all fairness, I initially misread your question and know that you already know the above, but I typed it and maybe someone who didn't know the answer will get a little value from the post. Kind of a waste to just delete it because I answered the wrong question. . .doh!

Sandy.
 
For normal tubes, I can't emphasize enough that you should make your cuts against a coupler inserted into the tube. If you don't, even with a sharp knife, the tubes tend deform.

Going back to your OP, I am not sure how well this method will work with Quikrete tubes. My experience with them is that they tend to break rather than bend. I am not sure they will be flexible enough to make a joint for the "petals". They are pretty cheap, though, maybe get some smaller diameter ones to experiment with.
 
For normal tubes, I can't emphasize enough that you should make your cuts against a coupler inserted into the tube. If you don't, even with a sharp knife, the tubes tend deform.

Going back to your OP, I am not sure how well this method will work with Quikrete tubes. My experience with them is that they tend to break rather than bend. I am not sure they will be flexible enough to make a joint for the "petals". They are pretty cheap, though, maybe get some smaller diameter ones to experiment with.

I wonder if maybe making the areas wet that need to bend a little to weaken it slightly. Let it dry out and reinforce somehow...hmmmm
 
An 8" diameter Quik-rete tube that is 4 feet long is less than $10 at HD/Lowes. Grab one cut a few lengths off and try cutting bending some petals - then report the results here :)

If I can get around to it, I can try doing that next week if no one else had tried it before then.
 
Another thing to try - the manufacturer says the diameter of these tubes can vary +/-0.5". (They are designed to just hold a column of concrete, after all). The OD for most FG couplers is about 7.8"- if you head over to the store with a ruler, you may be able to find one of the tubes that fits one of these couplers. If you can get a coupler in there, it is a lot easier to make a nosecone around the coupler that will fit on the body tube. (obviously, you could then buy a nosecone to fit the coupler, but the OP said he wants to make as much of this DIY as possible).
 
When I did my thick tube experiments, I used a dremel to make grooves where I bent the petals. I think I grooved both the inside and outside so the inside gave clearance and the outside didn't tear. There is going to be so much filler on it by the end anyway, a couple of radial grooves won't matter in the filling process.

I know I didn't have a smart phone back then (1999-2003-ish???), but maybe I used a 'digital camera' to take pics, but no idea where those would be. I searched TRF and didn't find any. In fact, the results only went back to 2021, so either there is a 10 page limit, TRF doesn't search very far back, I'm inept or old posts are gone???? Any help on how to search for really old posts would be great.

Sandy.
 
This is cool, I've never seen this method of making nose cone. Thank you for sharing
 
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I just found out about this method from a U.S. Rockets kit for sale on the Apogee site. I was looking for a breakdown of the math and I wasn’t disappointed. Thanks!

I wonder if anybody out there has a tool for generating a template automatically. I’d guess not, given how obscure this technique is.
 
I just found out about this method from a U.S. Rockets kit for sale on the Apogee site. I was looking for a breakdown of the math and I wasn’t disappointed. Thanks!

I wonder if anybody out there has a tool for generating a template automatically. I’d guess not, given how obscure this technique is.
So, get to writing one! /ducks

Just kidding. Hopefully, some skilled person will do that for us. (Don't look at me!)
 
I am amazed when people make and fly these cones. It truly is art to be able to make one.
 
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