Mach 10

[user 13]

Fishhead speaks the truth! But you should not wreck one.

I have cloned 2. I had to build the 2nd one because the first one glided away after years of nice flights!

2 important points for the Mach 10.

1. DON'T seal the wings. just a light coat of paint is all.

2. You have to launch it at a 60 deg angle, with the cockpit pointing up. The instructions show this, but I think this is probably overlooked. The small elevator gives the Mach 10 a nose up force causing an arcing boost. You have to think of it more as a rocket boosted aircraft than a rocket glider.

Also a B4-2 is the motor to use. If properly trimmed it will glide a long way.

 

[dappa1012]

Fishhead speaks the truth! But you should not wreck one.

I have cloned 2. I had to build the 2nd one because the first one glided away after years of nice flights!

2 important points for the Mach 10.

1. DON'T seal the wings. just a light coat of paint is all.

2. You have to launch it at a 60 deg angle, with the cockpit pointing up. The instructions show this, but I think this is probably overlooked. The small elevator gives the Mach 10 a nose up force causing an arcing boost. You have to think of it more as a rocket boosted aircraft than a rocket glider.

Also a B4-2 is the motor to use. If properly trimmed it will glide a long way.

Oh no, I have already primed mine! Will this kill my bird? Just two very lite coats gray primer is all I used. I Can sand most off?
Oh well life is one long lesson.

 

[user 13]

I don't think it will kill it, just make it heavier.

I don't think I would bother to sand it off, but on your next one...

Get as much mass inside the nose cone as you can.

Do you have any photos? I would love to see yours.

 

[dcastle]

How would a bit of aerogloss sanding sealer be for this one? A coat or two, largely sanded off, can't be too heavy?

I'll try to get some pictures posted soon. Right now it's unfinished and looks just like the other one posted already

 

[dappa1012]

Ok here are some more photos. Keep in mind No decals yet. I like to wait at least 24 hrs before applying them. I put a very lite coat of paint on. So lite you can see through it in some places. The first two pics are with primer. I also filled around the cockpit with contour putty to blend it in with the body. I figured a little more wait on the nose couldn't hurt. Enjoy the pics.

 

[user 13]

How would a bit of aerogloss sanding sealer be for this one? A coat or two, largely sanded off, can't be too heavy?

Hmm, I'm not sure you want a really smooth surface. I'm thinking it might be a boundary layer aeronautical engineering thing. Any aero engineers want to chime in here? I'm thinking the slightly rough surface might act like tiny vortex generators and help with drag. Then again I might just be over thinking the whole thing.

 

[rokitflite]

My Bt-80 upscales are primed, painted and fly great... They are smooth, but you can still see the grain. Keep it as light as possible though

 

[dappa1012]

Hmm, I'm not sure you want a really smooth surface. I'm thinking it might be a boundary layer aeronautical engineering thing. Any aero engineers want to chime in here? I'm thinking the slightly rough surface might act like tiny vortex generators and help with drag. Then again I might just be over thinking the whole thing.

Mine didn't come out smooth at all. Even with the primer and paint it appears rougher then before. The grain just kinda jumped out at me.

Hey Mark By the way I just noticed we are neighbors. I live up in Sanbornville near PPP.

 

[user 13]

Hey I guess we are! You should come to a CMASS launch, I would love to see your Mach 10 and maybe have a drag race. next launch the 21st.

 

[InFlight]

Mine didn't come out smooth at all. Even with the primer and paint it appears rougher then before. The grain just kinda jumped out at me.

Hey Mark By the way I just noticed we are neighbors. I live up in Sanbornville near PPP.

It looks fine to me. A light finish is what you want with this bird. This is fly and tell... not show and tell :headbang:
.

 

[InFlight]

I should have 10 more ready in few days...
.

 

[Fishhead]

Fishhead speaks the truth! But you should not wreck one.

I have cloned 2. I had to build the 2nd one because the first one glided away after years of nice flights!

2 important points for the Mach 10.

1. DON'T seal the wings. just a light coat of paint is all.

2. You have to launch it at a 60 deg angle, with the cockpit pointing up. The instructions show this, but I think this is probably overlooked. The small elevator gives the Mach 10 a nose up force causing an arcing boost. You have to think of it more as a rocket boosted aircraft than a rocket glider.

Also a B4-2 is the motor to use. If properly trimmed it will glide a long way.

True, all very true. This has been my personal Mach 10 timeline:
#1 was built using basswood instead of balsa. Don't try this.
#2 was perfect. I flew it to open a QUARK season at VOA and it performed flawlessly in a stiff breeze. B4-2 and B6-2 flights were great. The C5-3 flight, not so much.:eyepop: It looped off the pad and into some heavy weeds, and the whole engine tube shot out the back of the rocket at ejection. I fixed it, and flew it several times over the next couple of months, finally losing it to the school roof on its best ever flight.
#3 was also very good, but a little more difficult to trim. It eventually flew off deep into a deadfall, also saving the best for last.
#4 is still with me today, but has never really performed as well as #2 or #3.
#4a is a built original that I won off Ebay. Not very impressive and retired to stud after only a few token flights.
#5 is the current InFlight bird, which I hope to fly on Saturday.

 

[zog139]

[/QUOTE] Don't seal the wings![/QUOTE]

On my clone version, I actually used the "Zicafoose Method" and applied label paper to all of the balsa surfaces to make finishing easy. I have flown mine several times now and actually had to add a little bit of tail weight ( a little clay under the motor mount) and it flys great. The last flight was with a "new" Quest long burn C6-3 and it boosted real nice with lots of smoke as a plus. Heres a picture of her done up in Tamiya Mica Silver.

 

[AKPilot]

I should have 10 more ready in few days...
.

Dibs, dibs, dibs . . . or point me to that "take a number machine" I always see in the deli.

It's that or I constantly keep on TRF for the next few days.

And what do you define as a "few"? I always thought it meant more than one, but my wife says it's no less than three and no more than five. See, in her opinion, two is a couple, and six or more enters into the half dozen category. Of course she's also trained me to put the toilet seat down and say "yes, dear".

 

[MarkII]

Dibs, dibs, dibs . . .

Me too! Me too! Me too!

... Of course she's also trained me to put the toilet seat down and say "yes, dear".

In that order?

MarkII

 

[dcastle]

Hey I guess we are! You should come to a CMASS launch, I would love to see your Mach 10 and maybe have a drag race. next launch the 21st.

Good chance I'll be there as well. Been involved with CMASS on and off since '99; haven't been to a launch for a while and I'm way over due.

 

[dcastle]

Hmm, I'm not sure you want a really smooth surface. I'm thinking it might be a boundary layer aeronautical engineering thing. Any aero engineers want to chime in here? I'm thinking the slightly rough surface might act like tiny vortex generators and help with drag. Then again I might just be over thinking the whole thing.

I'm a former AE....if I remember correctly, a rough surface will trigger a turbulent boundary layer rather than a nice smooth laminar flow and there will be more drag as a result. I'm VERY rusty on this though, and I recall that some people in competition models will intentionally trip the boundary layer just past the nose cone to induce turbulent flow, so perhaps I'm not remembering things correctly. I imagine that the reason for leaning towards a minimal finish has more to do with weight considerations more than drag concerns.

Anyhow, as promised, here are a couple shots of my Mach 10, which is awaiting a paint job at the moment...

 

[foose4string]

Dibs, dibs, dibs . . . or point me to that "take a number machine" I always see in the deli.

It's that or I constantly keep on TRF for the next few days.

And what do you define as a "few"? I always thought it meant more than one, but my wife says it's no less than three and no more than five. See, in her opinion, two is a couple, and six or more enters into the half dozen category. Of course she's also trained me to put the toilet seat down and say "yes, dear".

Deli ticket #3 here.

Zog139's Mach 10 flew flawlessly, as did Rokitflite's free flight upscale. They have made me a believer.

BTW, I cannot claim the sticker paper method. This appears to be a technique suggested in some of the early Estes catalogs(or might have been a tech report).

 

[cwbullet]

I sure which I had not missed out on ordering one.

 

[InFlight]

Dibs, dibs, dibs . . . or point me to that "take a number machine" I always see in the deli.

It's that or I constantly keep on TRF for the next few days.

And what do you define as a "few"? I always thought it meant more than one, but my wife says it's no less than three and no more than five. See, in her opinion, two is a couple, and six or more enters into the half dozen category. Of course she's also trained me to put the toilet seat down and say "yes, dear".

I'm shooting for Friday.

Real job has been getting in the way.
.

 

[mjennings]

When you trip a boundary layer you change types of drag and sometimes you get better performance with turbulent flow, i.e. a golf ball is dimpled to trip the flow which keeps the flow more attached and reduces the net overall drag. On this particular model with the Reynolds number it operates at I couldn't say if you would gain anything by tripping the flow or not. A good airfoil and light construction are probably your best bet. Also even on a perfectly smooth flat plate the flow will switch between laminar and turbulent at some point, unless the flow is very slow.

It's been a few years since I've touched this stuff, but that seems right.

I'm a former AE....if I remember correctly, a rough surface will trigger a turbulent boundary layer rather than a nice smooth laminar flow and there will be more drag as a result. I'm VERY rusty on this though, and I recall that some people in competition models will intentionally trip the boundary layer just past the nose cone to induce turbulent flow, so perhaps I'm not remembering things correctly. I imagine that the reason for leaning towards a minimal finish has more to do with weight considerations more than drag concerns.

Anyhow, as promised, here are a couple shots of my Mach 10, which is awaiting a paint job at the moment...

 

[user 13]

Hey guys thanks.

I guess I was thinking too much into the issue.

Zog's papered wing has me intrigued. It should be heavier/smoother than the average M10 thus having worse performance, but it seems it does not!

Maybe we should all weigh our mach 10's. And categorize the wing surface roughness. Then we can all launch them on the same engines and angle and see what happens.

It might be fun, the first ever mass launch/data gathering.


Any interest?

 

[Pantherjon]

I will join the weigh in But will have to pass on the mass launch..MA and GA are a bit far apart!..LOL..Anyways, my Mach 10(just the glider as I have 'misplaced' the tracking cone) weighs in at 1.6oz..I cloned it a while ago from plans I downloaded..Has flown twice and turned in fairly good glides on B4-2's.

 

[dcastle]

Hey guys thanks.

I guess I was thinking too much into the issue.

Zog's papered wing has me intrigued. It should be heavier/smoother than the average M10 thus having worse performance, but it seems it does not!

Maybe we should all weigh our mach 10's. And categorize the wing surface roughness. Then we can all launch them on the same engines and angle and see what happens.

It might be fun, the first ever mass launch/data gathering.


Any interest?

I'm hoping to be at the Sudbury launch...if it's ready I'm game

 

[user 13]

Hmm, it seems I was not clear. I did not mean a Mass launch, I meant a mass launch. Kind of like the Golden scout deal. Everyone launch at home and record the data. Then compare here.

But Pantherjon I do have a spare futon!

I might have to explain to my wife why a bunch of rocket guys are showing up.

 

[Pantherjon]

Hmm, it seems I was not clear. I did not mean a Mass launch, I meant a mass launch. Kind of like the Golden scout deal. Everyone launch at home and record the data. Then compare here.

But Pantherjon I do have a spare futon!

I might have to explain to my wife why a bunch of rocket guys are showing up.

Ahhh, I see says the blind man!..LOL..Yeah, I would be game for a mass launch(now that I know it doesn't mean mass=Massachusetts!:roll

 

[user 13]

Mine comes in at 1.4oz or 38g. Thats no marker pod or motor.

I have a slight airfoil on the unsealed wings and just a coat of silver spray paint. It's CG is about 4 3/4 back from the nose.

 

[dcastle]

Hmm, it seems I was not clear. I did not mean a Mass launch, I meant a mass launch. Kind of like the Golden scout deal. Everyone launch at home and record the data. Then compare here.

But Pantherjon I do have a spare futon!

I might have to explain to my wife why a bunch of rocket guys are showing up.

Will you be at the CMASS launch Sunday?

 

[user 13]

If the weather cooperates I will. I have a bunch of first flights. I'll have my Mach 10 also. I need to pick up some B6-2's.

This is a very easy rocket to clone, but at 18 bucks it's a steal! It would cost close to that to get all the parts needed.

 

[dappa1012]

Hey I guess we are! You should come to a CMASS launch, I would love to see your Mach 10 and maybe have a drag race. next launch the 21st.

Thanks for the invite. I am planning on getting to CMASS one of these days not sure when. The 21st won't work for me as it is my daughters birthday and we are having a family get together. I will LYK when I do figure a date to get there though.