Low altitude 2 Stage Rocket? 500-ish Feet Max

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by Sonic, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. Sep 13, 2018 #1

    Sonic

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    My son really wants a 2 stage rocket, however I'd really like to be able to get the rocket back to fly it another time.

    Trying to find one that doesn't go too high because of the field we fly at. There's just so many to look at it's overwhelming to try to do the math and figure out what they'd fly to on lower power engines,. Does anyone have a 2 stage they like that might fit the bill?
     
  2. Sep 13, 2018 #2

    Sonic

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    Also, I know there are some that fly on mini engines that would work, but are they easily visible?
     
  3. Sep 13, 2018 #3

    GlenP

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  4. Sep 13, 2018 #4

    BDB

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  5. Sep 13, 2018 #5

    BDB

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    I should also mention that my son loves his Estes HyperBat. It's a cool kit, but you can easily loose it on a C6-0-->C6-5 (Been there; done that. He's flying his second one now.) But I bet an A8-0-->A8-3 would be about the altitude you are looking for.
     
  6. Sep 13, 2018 #6

    mcderek

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    Does it have to have a booster stage? A CHAD staged Mega Mosquito would work. D12-0 to D12-3 (or C11-3) would be a cool flight which won't get real high and there isn't a booster stage to find:). If interested I can explain how CHAD staging works.
     
  7. Sep 13, 2018 #7

    djs

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  8. Sep 13, 2018 #8

    Sonic

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  9. Sep 13, 2018 #9

    Sonic

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    That one looks good to me doing ballpark math. I know the saucer ones he wasn’t too thrilled about going “only” 150ft.
     
  10. Sep 13, 2018 #10

    Sonic

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    I’ll have to look Into it. He’s only 8, I’m guessing he wants the booster stage to find(or lose).
     
  11. Sep 13, 2018 #11

    OC-Patrick

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    Estes Mongoose Rocket
    EST2092
    [​IMG]
    how about this one? B6-0/B6-6 and replace the parachute with a streamer - should be ok on landing since the fins are plastic.
     
    BDB and mcderek like this.
  12. Sep 13, 2018 #12

    mcderek

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    The Mongoose is an excellent suggestion. Fun rocket!
     
  13. Sep 13, 2018 #13

    djs

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    They may not be great for altitude, but since they are slower going, they're louder and more dramatic compared to another rocket on the same motor. Not sure that matters to him? :)
     
  14. Sep 13, 2018 #14

    kuririn

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    Hyperbat: I've flown this on an A:A combo. Don't think it got more than 200'. Maybe a B:B or B:A combo is what you're looking for. High enough to be exciting but still recoverable.
    Twin Factor: Stable flyer, but draggy and low flights. The Semroc Midget and Firefly also use mini engines but should get a higher apogee. Stays visible, streamer recovery so less drift.
    Too Cool for Spool: Draggy but because it uses 24mm engines there's more noise and smoke to appeal to an 8 year old. Or an adult like me. Tumble recovery so minimum drift.

    Also there are steps you can take to maximize the recoverability of your rocket. Angle your rod to compensate for any wind ( but no more than 30 deg. per NAR rules). Consider cutting a spill hole in your chute (permanent) or reefing the shroud lines with a knot or tape ( temporary). Swapping a streamer for the chute will cut down on drift but increase the descent rate, and possibly increase the risk of landing damage.

    Engine selection is key: seems you want to balance the excitement of a high flight with recoverability. Some kits list the apogees with different motor combinations, but most don't. Consider getting a simulation program like OpenRocket. It's free, but there's a little bit of a learning curve. But once you learn it you'll be able to plug in different combos of motors and see how high it goes, as well as other performance characteristics.
     
  15. Sep 13, 2018 #15

    GlenP

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  16. Sep 13, 2018 #16

    sl98

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    I have the twin factor. Great 2 stage kit and a crowd pleaser. The Estes Super Nova on a B6-0 to A8-5 might also be an option. It also has a clear payload bay suitable for a Lego Astronaut. I've seen the Super Nova fly and I have one on build pile. Loadstar II is another possibility.
     
  17. Sep 14, 2018 #17

    Sonic

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    I may have more options than I thought. I was doing very rough math in my head with these Estes kits trying to figure out altitude. I have played around in open rocket before, but I was just trying to narrow it down first since that can be time consuming.

    Here’s my math. If it goes 1500 feet on 2 C engines, I figure stage 1 gets it to 500 feet and stage 2 is good for the other 1000. Then I just cut each altitude in half for each letter you can go down. So 750ft on B engines. And 500 feet on a B and an A. I realize Estes usually overestimates altitude as well.

    I worry about tilting the rod. If you tilt into the wind, won’t that make weather cocking worse? I flew a couple 2 stages when I was younger and lost them both. They seemed to get horizontal easily.


    I’ll probably just show him which rockets will likely work best and let him choose. I know he wants an Estes Camanche-3 but if I remember correctly, the math on that one doesn’t work out.
     
  18. Sep 14, 2018 #18

    kuririn

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    I've flown a Mini Comanche 3 on a small field. Sharp, slender rocket, moderately priced, streamer recovery, lots of fun.
     
  19. Sep 14, 2018 #19

    snrkl

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  20. Sep 14, 2018 #20

    KevinM

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    Another option is the Loadstar II.
    Loadstar2_B60C63.jpg

    B6-2 + B6-0 (and a little weight in the payload bay in the form of an altimeter) will get you a little over 300'.

    KMc
     
  21. Sep 14, 2018 #21

    tsai

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    Not sure if you can find one, but the Estes Solar Flare would also fit the bill nicely.
     
  22. Sep 14, 2018 #22

    BEC

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    Mongoose would have to be A to A to stay under 500 feet. Same for the SuperNova. But the idea of putting a streamer in a Mongoose so you can fly it a bit higher without losing it is a good one.

    When I saw the thread title my first thought was Fliskits Frick-n-Frack. I use one at schoolyard demos. But it is kind of fussy to set up.

    Loadstar II is an interesting idea....It's a bit draggier and heavier than a SuperNova so you might go B6-0/A8-3 (or -5). I find it hard to believe it would only go to 300 feet B to B unless that altimeter is alot heavier than the ones I like to fly (FireFly, AltimeterOne/Three, Pnut, MicroPeak) or the finish is paint with no filler and no sanding and with square fin edges.

    That said, being able to see how it it does actually fly is cool to know for both you and your son. The FireFly is simple, light, and inexpensive (and so less painful to lose). The Jolly Logic devices are much more elegant. Skip the Estes Altimeter - heavy and not the most reliable.
     
  23. Sep 14, 2018 #23

    swatkat

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    The Estes Red Rider with the BT-55 booster is 500 feet using the C11-0 to A8-3 (425 ish feet) and with the C11-0 to B6-4 you are around 600.
     
  24. Sep 14, 2018 #24

    dhbarr

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    Have had a from-the-store instability with the red rider with booster on first-flight motors, just as a heads up.

    Always check your CG ( I should have known better ).
     
  25. Sep 14, 2018 #25

    Sonic

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    I’ve already got you beat there. Got a Jolly Logic Altimeter Two. Flew to 523 feet and figured that was a good height for a two stage rocket.
     
  26. Sep 14, 2018 #26

    swatkat

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    Mine came out of the box with a lot of nose weight. I've not had any issues with the booster in ~7-8 two stage flights. I will say, my other BT-60 Estes ones have had that issue with the booster
     
  27. Sep 14, 2018 #27

    BEC

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    On the Red Ryder....yes - they were recalled and re-released with some nose weight.

    If you use a C11-0 in a Booster-55 (or Booster-60 with some other model) you should vent the interstage area or you may get staging without lighting the upper stage. Been there, done that. Attached is how I did it. Those are 1/4 inch holes and probably are overkill.
    IMG_5241.jpg

    To the OP: AltimeterTwo is a neat little tool, isn't it?
     
  28. Sep 14, 2018 #28

    rharshberger

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    That occured twice at SodBlaster, the Booster 60 failed to light the Estes Flying Colors second stage. Good to know the solution as I won a Booster60 and a Rookie kit.
     
  29. Sep 15, 2018 #29

    Sonic

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    I love data. Was thinking maybe I should have gotten the Three, but it gives me something to look forward to.
     
  30. Sep 15, 2018 #30

    snrkl

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    I was the same and bought the three...

    Just make sure you get the Dino chute sleeve for it... once a $130 A3 spends 60days in a field, the $10 sleeve more than pays for itself!
     

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