Lost Rocket at LDRS 42

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pfhorwath

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Folks, I lost an 8" V2 on Saturday and had to give up looking for it after a few hours as we had a 10 hour drive to be back in NC so my wife could get to work Sunday. the drogue and nosecone separated at apogee (around 3000 ft) and drifted to the right of the field. We got a good line of sight to the main body as I tracked it to about 100AGL at which point it was coming down to the right of the two porta potty's at the other side of the field. see image. We searched the entire field for several hours so I'm pretty sure it fell in the neighbors land behind the field. This is a BIG V2 with a 98mm casing. I don't think my name is in it. We have a way to get it back to NC if someone finds it. I'm happy to give a reward if found. rocket is camo paint. Screenshot 2024-06-09 092928.png
v2 pic.jpg
 
Folks, I lost an 8" V2 on Saturday and had to give up looking for it after a few hours as we had a 10 hour drive to be back in NC so my wife could get to work Sunday. the drogue and nosecone separated at apogee (around 3000 ft) and drifted to the right of the field. We got a good line of sight to the main body as I tracked it to about 100AGL at which point it was coming down to the right of the two porta potty's at the other side of the field. see image. We searched the entire field for several hours so I'm pretty sure it fell in the neighbors land behind the field. This is a BIG V2 with a 98mm casing. I don't think my name is in it. We have a way to get it back to NC if someone finds it. I'm happy to give a reward if found. rocket is camo paint. View attachment 649574
View attachment 649575
The folks at URRG were on the ball with locating lost rockets and I believe I heard they were planning to use a drone to help locate them, so chances are good that it will be found.
Did you have your name and contact info on it? Also what color was the parachute(s).
 
The folks at URRG were on the ball with locating lost rockets and I believe I heard they were planning to use a drone to help locate them, so chances are good that it will be found.
Did you have your name and contact info on it? Also what color was the parachute(s).
Nope i did not have my name on it. That's one of three lessons I learned the hard way from this flight: 1: always put your name and phone number on your rockets; 2: always have GPS tracking on anything bigger than an H; 3 NEVER trust RRC altimeters...this one had two RRC3's brand new batteries that i tested, we had continuity tones on both, I used 1 gram more than tested charges on the main and pretty sure neither fired. I never thought i rocket this fat and heavy would drift that far.
 
The folks at URRG were on the ball with locating lost rockets and I believe I heard they were planning to use a drone to help locate them, so chances are good that it will be found.
Did you have your name and contact info on it? Also what color was the parachute(s).
I believe the main was red and blue and the drogue was orange? but not sure. only 8" V2 that flew there
 
what do you mean wrong location? did you see where it went or did you find it? I only got a line on the main part and not a good line at that.
They deleted their post because it was on the wrong thread. "Wrong location" was a misleading choice of words for this thread! But it was about their post, not your rocket.
 
I never thought i rocket this fat and heavy would drift that far.
4. Never underestimate the ability of upper-level winds to take your rockets away. If it's breezy on the ground, it's probably way worse up high. My Pink Lady only went up 1000 feet with dual deploy, and still landed way out between the D and E cells on Saturday. My Mega Alpha went up 1800 feet with a successful chute release and landed beyond the F cell.

Regardless, I hope you get it back. It's a nice looking rocket.
 
I believe the main was red and blue and the drogue was orange? but not sure. only 8" V2 that flew there
4. Never underestimate the ability of upper-level winds to take your rockets away. If it's breezy on the ground, it's probably way worse up high. My Pink Lady only went up 1000 feet with dual deploy, and still landed way out between the D and E cells on Saturday. My Mega Alpha went up 1800 feet with a successful chute release and landed beyond the F cell.
Also NEVER underestimate the ability of ground-level winds and gusts to drag your rocket away, then for the rocket to gather enough dirt inside to finally anchor it down a field (or more) away and for the chute to finally settle down enough to not be seen.

I drove by my rocket because this had happened to it.
1000018306.jpg
1000018305.jpg
 
There must have been some crazy winds aloft there. I have never seen rockets drift like that! I sent up a heavy 3" PML AMRAAM on an H210 with a jolly logic set at 400AGL and it went almost all the way across the field.

I hope someone finds the V2 it has a 98mm x 5120 case in it! Lessons learned can be very expensive in this hobby!
 
Sorry to hear about your rocket. My daughter and I saw your launch and were joking about how V2s are cursed at Potter. We bought a 4" V2 from the lost/found auction a couple of years ago. Rebuilt it and flew it last year at URRF where it lawn darted in the field behind the flight line.

This year it magically appeared on Thursday, placed on a cement block near the first set of barns when you drive in. It looks like it sat in a field for awhile and probably run over with some equipment but all the major parts are there, so we are going to rebuild it. Might not fly it at Potter though!

Here's a couple of pics that we got of your rocket.

cheers - mark

v21.jpgv22.jpg
 
Great Picture thanks!!! I can't make any sense of the bottom pic though. my main was attached to the shock cord not directly to the Electronics bay. I cant see a way that the cord could have separated unless it was after where the main was attached. that would mean that a very tough tubular nylon strap snapped!!! I wonder if the ejection charge burned through it but even that doesn't make sense as separation happened at apogee. I'm 100% sure the altimeters were hooked up correctly. No way main could have ejected first.
 
Also NEVER underestimate the ability of ground-level winds and gusts to drag your rocket away, then for the rocket to gather enough dirt inside to finally anchor it down a field (or more) away and for the chute to finally settle down enough to not be seen.

I drove by my rocket because this had happened to it.
View attachment 649786
View attachment 649787

I'd tell people I was testing a rapid plow technique! :looks_around:
 
You made the comment not to trust RRC3 altimeters but Im failing to find the connection to how an RRC3 caused your rocket’s shock cord to separate especially when you said you used an entire gram of powder more than you ground tested with. I have several hundred dual deploy flights on missleworks altimeters (across a few dozen units). I have yet to have one not fire.
 
Too late now, but I will give a plug for the DriftCast utility for future use. If you run the analysis before your flight or within 48 hours after, then you will have some landing spot predictions. Very useful if the winds vary a lot in altitude, as seems to be the case at LRDS.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...-on-winds-aloft-forecasts.185800/post-2588675

I am confused by your setup. You did not find the nose cone section, either? The main chute was in the nosecone and you do not think it deployed? To reiterate what @TheTank said, two RRC3 altimeters failing is simply impossible. There had to be some user error. Perhaps your redundant drogue charges with 1 extra gram each went off simultaneously and snapped the harness.
 
To reiterate what @TheTank said, two RRC3 altimeters failing is simply impossible. There had to be some user error.
FWIW I had that happen to me a few months ago with a 4" Phoenix built with redundant dd (using a SLCF and Quark). I used new bought batteries of ones that I had used for years and apparently the new ones were now made differently and (according to my friend who's building his own gps electronics and I think owns an electronics business) they were crap and both failed on boost. At least I got a nice whistle on the way down.

Edit add: Now I make sure I never use new items in both systems at the same time and always use at least one old proven one.
 
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FWIW I had that happen to me a few months ago with a 4" Phoenix built with redundant dd (using a SLCF and Quark). I used new bought batteries of ones that I had used for years and apparently the new ones were now made differently and (according to my friend who's building his own gps electronics and I think owns an electronics business) they were crap and both failed on boost. At least I got a nice whistle on the way down.

Edit add: Now I make sure I never use new items in both systems at the same time and always use at least one old proven one.

But your example is of a bad battery not a bad altimeter.
 
Great Picture thanks!!! I can't make any sense of the bottom pic though. my main was attached to the shock cord not directly to the Electronics bay. I cant see a way that the cord could have separated unless it was after where the main was attached. that would mean that a very tough tubular nylon strap snapped!!! I wonder if the ejection charge burned through it but even that doesn't make sense as separation happened at apogee. I'm 100% sure the altimeters were hooked up correctly. No way main could have ejected first.

Drag separation and tubular nylon cuts like butter on the un-rounded edge of a fiberglass tube. When a even like that happens , your AV bay gets hit with 100 plus G hit. Your battery on the main side could have moved/disconnected.
 
Try checking in with URRG and their lost and found: https://urrg.clubexpress.com/ (there is a link near the bottom to their Facebook page with some found items). It's not there yet, but maybe someday. But if a camouflaged rocket landed in the trees, it may not be found until the fall when trees are bare. And then it has to get pulled out of the trees!

FWIW, I heard talk of winds aloft of 45mph. One of the reasons the full scale Patriot and Nike Smoke didn't fly was concerns over that. Not just a long recovery, but apparently winds like that can cause early ejections. (Or so I'm told)

My opinion on nylon cords is that any unprotected nylon cord can burn through from ejection charges. If not totally, enough to weaken it so it snaps on opening. Had it happen on a smaller bull pup, and have seen it many times. If I use one, it is wrapped in heavy foil tape and barf or a blanket to keep the flame away. Generally, I just don't trust them. Why use it when Kevlar is available?
 
Nope i did not have my name on it. That's one of three lessons I learned the hard way from this flight: 1: always put your name and phone number on your rockets; 2: always have GPS tracking on anything bigger than an H; 3 NEVER trust RRC altimeters...this one had two RRC3's brand new batteries that i tested, we had continuity tones on both, I used 1 gram more than tested charges on the main and pretty sure neither fired. I never thought i rocket this fat and heavy would drift that far.
Also always ground test an Rf tracker installation with the chosen deployment electronics with bare contained ematches to make sure the tracker doesn't dork the altimeter(s). I've seen it happen to others and it's happened to me too. I didn't test, was walking away from the rocket after turning on the deployment altimeter and it stopped beeping. Not a big rocket but I ran anyways. The apogee charge blew and after a delay, the main charge blew. I was lucky, just some paint damage with the ground on pad deployment.
Another failure mode I've seen is once in flight, the Rf tracker completely shuts down the altimeter(s) and a lawn dart ensues. Always ground test a dissimilar installation.
Now if flying tracker products and deployment electronics by the same manufacturer, one is likely fine because they've already done the testing.
Also the combo tracker/deployment altimeter products you can be sure the maker fully tested the combination to prevent customer complaints.
There's a reason for rocketry tracker low Rf output. 1. radio propagation is great at altitude so there is no need for high power. 2. Battery requirements are less and the hardware is lighter. 3. Less likely to interfere with electronics but still no guarantee there.
With GPS, one really just needs that last known position to get a lead on finding the rocket. That gets one close enough to get a new fix if the GPS receiver is facing the sky.
I port my incoming APRS and NMEA fixes to a laptop map live so I could see the drift trends down low due to wind.
With directional Rf only tracking with the "beep, beep" trackers using Yagi antennas and an attenuator, I strongly recommend a Garmin handheld mapping GPS with a point and shoot feature. One can point/sight the GPS at the descending rocket along the yagi antenna (or the rocket if seen coming down) push a button and the Garmin will lock that bearing in and give one a line to follow. Avoids having to "stare" at the ground
references while walking to the rocket. PLUS, if one has to take a detour for an obstruction to straight line recovery, the Garmin will keep the bearing fixed and one can walk around the impediment and continue on to the rocket bearing.
I used that feature in the past with smaller rockets that couldn't carry a GPS tracker and it's worked every time. I've been surprised how much farther some rockets landed then I thought. Of course the point and shoot feature doesn't give distance but does give a more accurate line to recover the rocket. Kurt
 
But your example is of a bad battery not a bad altimeter.
The assumption is bad altimeters, which can happen (I've been told WAY too many times "I've never seen that before" in this hobby), but bad batteries can also lead to the same assumption and without actually having the rocket, we're all guessing here.
 
FWIW I had that happen to me a few months ago with a 4" Phoenix built with redundant dd (using a SLCF and Quark). I used new bought batteries of ones that I had used for years and apparently the new ones were now made differently and (according to my friend who's building his own gps electronics and I think owns an electronics business) they were crap and both failed on boost. At least I got a nice whistle on the way down.

Edit add: Now I make sure I never use new items in both systems at the same time and always use at least one old proven one.

Duracells? Yes they no longer work for rockets.
 
You made the comment not to trust RRC3 altimeters but Im failing to find the connection to how an RRC3 caused your rocket’s shock cord to separate especially when you said you used an entire gram of powder more than you ground tested with. I have several hundred dual deploy flights on missleworks altimeters (across a few dozen units). I have yet to have one not fire.
i have had bad luck with RRC over the years as every rocket I've ever lost to a failed deployment was on some variant of an RRC. I pretty much only fly egg timers now. I usually double up a Quasar with GPS and a Quantum. I've never lost a rocket on that setup. This rocket i bought of another guy and it already had two RRC3's installed. I was going to swap them out but didn't
 
Too late now, but I will give a plug for the DriftCast utility for future use. If you run the analysis before your flight or within 48 hours after, then you will have some landing spot predictions. Very useful if the winds vary a lot in altitude, as seems to be the case at LRDS.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...-on-winds-aloft-forecasts.185800/post-2588675

I am confused by your setup. You did not find the nose cone section, either? The main chute was in the nosecone and you do not think it deployed? To reiterate what @TheTank said, two RRC3 altimeters failing is simply impossible. There had to be some user error. Perhaps your redundant drogue charges with 1 extra gram each went off simultaneously and snapped the harness.
main chute was in the main body snapped to a loop on the shock cord about 1/3rd down from E-Bay, that's why its so weird that i don't see it in the picture which clearly shows the main body separated and no main. I just bought this rocket from a guy and got it in the night before we left so i never re-rigged it the way I like. (my fault for rushing it).

I think Ken may have a point that the batteries may have failed. I bought brand new energizer 9volts and checked them but strange things happen when you pull that many G's. Come to think of it, that may be my problem with RRC's as those are the only altimeters I fly with 9-Volts.

A very expensive lesson learned!!!
 
No, they were 9v lipos I got back in ~2014 and had been using since with 100% success, but I thought they were getting too old, so I bought new ones of the same. The new ones, while they look the same, they suck.
The old ones were probably without any battery management circuitry.
Almost all new ones do have a BMC to prevent any liability concerns.
Many BMC's will not like the [short] short of an e-match plasma ball and will disconnect the battery.
 
Did you lose both parts?

Fyi RocketVlogs recorded the event and in his video (currently only available to paying subscribers, but I believe will be released to everyone later), at 48:15 I see the rocket launched and he tracked the nose cone as it separated and fell down. Unfortunately the air on the ground was pretty hazy. Repeated and careful review may help to further determine where it may have landed.
 
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