Quantcast

Lost another Rocket

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

jrap330

Retired Engineer, NAR # 76940
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
373
Reaction score
96
Location
NJ
To everyone, including some new members who can not wait to launch a rockets 1000 feet or more or go into High Power just for the fire, smoke and Yes..that roar of a Composite engine, I lost another Rocket today..the god old Estes Bull Pup on a B6-4 engine. I have a small field, followed the rocket up almost til the end (but my poor eye sight) , I heared the POP of ejection, a.good sign but no small aircraft with my special 8 inch parachute. A few things hurt and losing a rocket is one of them. A month ago I almost lost the AMRAAM..great C flyer and found it on my way back to launch pad. So newbies and even oldsters unless you have a big field and extra eyes (20/20 or better) to track...take you time in your quest for power and altitude.
 

HeavyBurdon

Active Member
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
44
Reaction score
48
Amen. The field I launch at is about 1200 ft by 500 ft...and the wind usually blows across the narrow way. I've lost 3 since March: two in the woods in one direction, and one on top of the high school. All on C engines. I've found the optimum altitude for the field to be about 600 ft. Anything beyond that and the drift is too much...and often a 3-5 mph wind at the surface is 10, 15, or more mph at or above 500 ft. I've started to launch an Apogee Blue Streak or other small streamer-recovery rocket to judge winds before sending anything up that has a chute. Maybe I'll use my Air Force weather account to pull low level wind direction and speed to help from now on (gives values for increments of 100 feet)...it sure helps to find optimum computed air release points (CARPs) when slinging airdrop equipment or troops from the C-17!
 

jrap330

Retired Engineer, NAR # 76940
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
373
Reaction score
96
Location
NJ
Thank for sharing, in my time as a BAR (1998) i built somewhere between 10-15 kits and this is my 4 or 5 lost rocket. So everyone out West, including a newbie in Colorado, be bless you have untold amounts of undeveloped land...back in the NYC/NJ/Conn area , land is rare and my area in NJ lost some prime area due large housing developments in the past 20 years since I became a BAR.
 

neil_w

Chuffed as ninepence
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
9,492
Reaction score
2,685
Location
Northern NJ
Thank for sharing, in my time as a BAR (1998) i built somewhere between 10-15 kits and this is my 4 or 5 lost rocket. So everyone out West, including a newbie in Colorado, be bless you have untold amounts of undeveloped land...back in the NYC/NJ/Conn area , land is rare and my area in NJ lost some prime area due large housing developments in the past 20 years since I became a BAR.
Where are you exactly?
 

rklapp

NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Joined
May 8, 2020
Messages
627
Reaction score
406
Location
Oahu, Hawaii
I’ve flown a lot over the past months as you’ve seen in my videos. About 1 in 10 decide they want to go on an adventure despite sims and test launches. I like to think that some kid finds the rocket and becomes interested in the sport. Yes it is a sport because we’re outdoors and we keep score.

Plus there are sponsors...
 
Last edited:

jrap330

Retired Engineer, NAR # 76940
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
373
Reaction score
96
Location
NJ
Monmouth Cty......Jersey Shore home of Bruce, Bon Jovi and the former great Army base Ft Monmouth.
 

jrap330

Retired Engineer, NAR # 76940
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
373
Reaction score
96
Location
NJ
I’ve flown a lot over the past months as you’ve seen in my videos. About 1 in 10 decide they want to go on an adventure despite sims and test launches. I like to think that some kid finds the rocket and becomes interested in the sport. Yes it is a sport because we’re outdoors and we keep score.
So how many have become free in the past 12 months.
 

neil_w

Chuffed as ninepence
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
9,492
Reaction score
2,685
Location
Northern NJ
Monmouth Cty......Jersey Shore home of Bruce, Bon Jovi and the former great Army base Ft Monmouth.
What would be your closest club, BARC?

I'm in Randolph, Morris County. Went to a BARC launch once, had a really nice day there.
 

jrap330

Retired Engineer, NAR # 76940
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
373
Reaction score
96
Location
NJ
CENJARS...10 miles away. Gee do not know you were a Jersey boy.
 

neil_w

Chuffed as ninepence
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
9,492
Reaction score
2,685
Location
Northern NJ
Hey that's only a bit over an hour from me... Maybe I'll head down their sometime. Although 800' ceiling is a bit tight...
 

steveh.jae

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 23, 2020
Messages
128
Reaction score
40
Amen. The field I launch at is about 1200 ft by 500 ft...and the wind usually blows across the narrow way. I've lost 3 since March: two in the woods in one direction, and one on top of the high school. All on C engines. I've found the optimum altitude for the field to be about 600 ft. Anything beyond that and the drift is too much...and often a 3-5 mph wind at the surface is 10, 15, or more mph at or above 500 ft. I've started to launch an Apogee Blue Streak or other small streamer-recovery rocket to judge winds before sending anything up that has a chute. Maybe I'll use my Air Force weather account to pull low level wind direction and speed to help from now on (gives values for increments of 100 feet)...it sure helps to find optimum computed air release points (CARPs) when slinging airdrop equipment or troops from the C-17!
Heavy, does the NWS have an analogue to your ‘secret AF account’ that mere civies can use? Link? Thanks!

Steve (AF vet)
 

ksaves2

Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
5,887
Reaction score
276
To everyone, including some new members who can not wait to launch a rockets 1000 feet or more or go into High Power just for the fire, smoke and Yes..that roar of a Composite engine, I lost another Rocket today..the god old Estes Bull Pup on a B6-4 engine. I have a small field, followed the rocket up almost til the end (but my poor eye sight) , I heared the POP of ejection, a.good sign but no small aircraft with my special 8 inch parachute. A few things hurt and losing a rocket is one of them. A month ago I almost lost the AMRAAM..great C flyer and found it on my way back to launch pad. So newbies and even oldsters unless you have a big field and extra eyes (20/20 or better) to track...take you time in your quest for power and altitude.
If you’re developing cataracts, get them fixed. I had implants at 54 and great to eschew glasses for distance viewing. I was very far-sighted and an amblyope with left eye dominance. Just use Walmart readers now on a string. My family just gets cataracts for no reason. None of us are diabetic with chronic health problems. My mom had ‘em at 55 and my younger brother at 50. He was very near-sighted. Opthmologist who has seen all of our family exclaimed we were “all over the place” concerning vision. :). Kurt
 

HeavyBurdon

Active Member
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
44
Reaction score
48
Heavy, does the NWS have an analogue to your ‘secret AF account’ that mere civies can use? Link? Thanks!

Steve (AF vet)
Hey Steve,

If there is one, I don’t know of it. Maybe search “low level wind forecast,” something might come up.

CJ
 

gb1113

New Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
3
Reaction score
2
Location
MN
Check out https://www.windy.com/ It has a slider on the lower right side that you can use to change the altitude.
Good day all, adding to the above link, check out https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/weather/asos/ pick you state and closest airport then, unless you know the weather terminology click the "format" button to put that page into a more readable format. Automated stations most likely do not have winds aloft but, for those near larger airports - maybe their reports will.
Stations in southern MN are all automated.
Another source is https://www.aviationweather.gov/windtemp. The slider at left is x100ft units with 3000ft the lowest. Info is from larger area airports only.
 
Last edited:

jrap330

Retired Engineer, NAR # 76940
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
373
Reaction score
96
Location
NJ
What would be your closest club, BARC?

I'm in Randolph, Morris County. Went to a BARC launch once, had a really nice day there.
Are you sure BARC.. As in Bay Area Rocketry Club?? You are near Rockaway..Garden State Spacemodling (A-D) Radical Rocketers in Great Meadows...Warren Cty (web states just started high power)
 

gb1113

New Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
3
Reaction score
2
Location
MN
As to lost rockets - there have been a number of hobby and high power gone missing. The hobby rockets claimed by tall grass, power lines, or gusty winds. The high power wandering rockets typically are found a few weeks later but I did have one PML Tethys over winter along a county ditch one year. The Quantum tube survived perfectly, as did the 29mm motor casing but the field mice renovated the shock cord and didn't take their trash out... After some substantial cleaning and R&R it still is flying!
 

jrap330

Retired Engineer, NAR # 76940
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
373
Reaction score
96
Location
NJ
If you’re developing cataracts, get them fixed. I had implants at 54 and great to eschew glasses for distance viewing. I was very far-sighted and an amblyope with left eye dominance. Just use Walmart readers now on a string. My family just gets cataracts for no reason. None of us are diabetic with chronic health problems. My mom had ‘em at 55 and my younger brother at 50. He was very near-sighted. Opthmologist who has seen all of our family exclaimed we were “all over the place” concerning vision. :). Kurt
No just bad eyes genetic, good old Dad's genes.....never had 20/20 vision...used to have almost 20/30 with contacts..using glasses 20/40.
 

jrap330

Retired Engineer, NAR # 76940
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
373
Reaction score
96
Location
NJ
About 5 out of 50 launches are on walkabout...
not bad..10%....you do have a large field. Are you thinking of buying Jolly Logic Chute Release??
 

Rocks&Rockets

Re-tired Inspector
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
17
Reaction score
7
Location
Grand Junction, CO
Sad to lose anything that one works on for so long and takes pride of work in. I've successfully flown DD on the 3" modified Leviathan. But I just bought the JLCR for the simplicity of use and for higher altitude flights- including my HPR L1 certification attempt this fall (hopefully after fire restrictions & etc ...)
 

Philip Tiberius D.

Old Fashioned 2.5oz Rye/H2O 8 drops Orange Bitters
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
132
Reaction score
57
Location
Bixby, OK
To everyone, including some new members who can not wait to launch a rockets 1000 feet or more or go into High Power just for the fire, smoke and Yes..that roar of a Composite engine, I lost another Rocket today..the god old Estes Bull Pup on a B6-4 engine. I have a small field, followed the rocket up almost til the end (but my poor eye sight) , I heared the POP of ejection, a.good sign but no small aircraft with my special 8 inch parachute. A few things hurt and losing a rocket is one of them. A month ago I almost lost the AMRAAM..great C flyer and found it on my way back to launch pad. So newbies and even oldsters unless you have a big field and extra eyes (20/20 or better) to track...take you time in your quest for power and altitude.
This might help:

Personal Alarm for Women 140DB Emergency Self-Defense Security Alarm Keychain with LED Light for Women Kids and Elders-3 Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBXMH8V/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_157cFb3CKF78Y
 

Five

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
132
Reaction score
64
This might help:

Personal Alarm for Women 140DB Emergency Self-Defense Security Alarm Keychain with LED Light for Women Kids and Elders-3 Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBXMH8V/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_157cFb3CKF78Y
I used something similar. 113DB very loud. I used JB weld to mount it in the nose cone of my Nano mag. It would have worked out great in recovering my rocket if I didn’t put a G80 in it. That motor sent it into low earth orbit. Every time I go back to the launch site I walk around pushing the alarm in hopes i might hear it. I never do though.
 

Attachments

BABAR

Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,263
Reaction score
1,544
I think Der MicroMeister is rebuilding his collection. All these birds are going up, they just aren’t coming down,
 

Five

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
132
Reaction score
64
It probably teleported.
If it did teleport. Where did it go? Can it be done again? Will it only teleport by my hands? I do not have the answer to these questions. I’m no expert in teleportation, only time travel.
 

Philip Tiberius D.

Old Fashioned 2.5oz Rye/H2O 8 drops Orange Bitters
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
132
Reaction score
57
Location
Bixby, OK
I used something similar. 113DB very loud. I used JB weld to mount it in the nose cone of my Nano mag. It would have worked out great in recovering my rocket if I didn’t put a G80 in it. That motor sent it into low earth orbit. Every time I go back to the launch site I walk around pushing the alarm in hopes i might hear it. I never do though.
These work best if dangling from a tree, being on the ground can really limit their effectiveness. These work best to help locate if you know the general area.
 

ksaves2

Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
5,887
Reaction score
276
Check out https://www.windy.com/ It has a slider on the lower right side that you can use to change the altitude.
I also think there might be NOAA or NWS sites that have winds aloft information for free for pilots. But one has to remember it’s a prediction. Fly a tracker GPS or RDF if one can. Yeah I know hard to do for a modroc but one shouldn’t be punching stuff up to several thousands of feet with a small rocket that will be hard to see. I’ve done it and have been lucky I’ve found most of them. Sometimes they disappear forever. I’m prepared for that.

...... And don’t put a big honking motor in a new immaculately painted rocket! One is surely going to lose it on the first flight. Do it in a beater rocket that’s been flown hard, cracked off and repaired fins, paint (or whatever is left of it) all scuffed up and raunchy looking. I’ve purposely done that in a beat up Apogee Aspire and believe it or not, cracked fins and all, I recovered it from four F10-8 launches. Three from a relatively small field too.
Murphy’s law in reverse I guess.;)

Rocket was lost the first launch on an F10-8 at a major event but was found and returned to me. It was very early in my “career”. I then flew the daylights out of it on lower powered motors and started punching it higher and higher. When it looked sufficiently beat up, I did the F10-8 launches again but researched the weather conditions before flying it. If they weren’t right, I just used small motors in an adapter. If they looked good, I punched it.

Ahhhhhhh, coming down from 4 to 5 thousand feet takes a very long time even on a streamer. I swivel my head all around to scan as I know the rocket could be any direction after a flight that high. I use a longer mylar fan folded streamer and more often than not out in the country with no city noise, my ears would hear the rapping sound of the fluttering mylar streamer and they would direct my eyes to where the rocket was coming in. Plastic surveyors tape doesn’t do that noise. That was of course if it was close enough. Then again out in the country, sound travels farther without city noise to squelch it. It could be a pretty fair distance away and I’d still be able to hear it.

A handheld mapping GPS like a Garmin with a ”Sight ‘n Go“ feature can be most helpful if one practices with it.
The Sight ‘n Go allows one to setup the GPS to shoot a line to an object in realtime. Have it in that mode and sight a descending rocket as it’s getting close to the horizon and about to touch down. There are two sighting beads on the face of the device. Line up the rocket with the two beads, push the button to lock it in gives one a course line to the object. If one is interested in getting a GPS like that, make sure you look into the online manual to make sure it has that feature before you buy. Some of the lower cost units don’t have it.

With a streamer ship, one doesn’t have as much time to get a bead but with a parachute one, one can lock it in just before touch down in the tall grass!

The option gives a datum line in the direction of the rocket and of course there is no distance information. One has to keep walking the datum line and scanning carefully in front of them lest they step on the rocket! The nice thing about using a “Sight ’n Go“ feature is if one has to detour around an obstacle to get to the rocket, the arrow on the GPS will keep them going in the right direction to the rocket. I’ve found that out three times when I had to walk around drainage ditches and such that were in the way of a straight line recovery. The GPS kept me going to the touch down site no matter which way I approached it from.

If one can make or get a small noisemaker device to put in their rocket, that can help a lot in recovery. I built several 14 years ago using an N 12V battery that have really helped. If one is “jittery” when they shoot the datum line to the rocket, that course line can be “off” by a bit. A little noisemaker really can help as long as one is not hearing impaired for the terminal phase of recovery. Intact ears are really great direction finders mind you.

If one proceeds to HPR and punching those birds out to “outta sight land” for longer periods of time, can’t beat a GPS tracker of which I have written a lot about here.

Kurt Savegnago
 
Top