Looking to upscale the Estes Blue bird zero!

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Jtgreig

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Hi I thought I'd post on here and see if anyone might be able to help me with finding a nose cone to upscale an Essie's bluebird zero to a 3-inch version and also what someone might think would be the best body tube to use for that nose cone any help would be greatly appreciated thank you. I emailed erockets and asked them but I am still waiting for a reply because it's so hard for me for some reason to find a nose cone and corresponding body tube that fits that nose cone on that website or other websites for that matter so please help me I really need it.
 

GlenP

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That long of a rocket scaled up to that diameter might get you into the MPR power weight class, 29mm power, maybe? This is the LPR forum. You might be able to make it light enough for D or E 24mm black powder power, but the higher drag of that dia might make the flight unimpressive. Have you worked out the motor size yet?
 
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Jtgreig

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That long of a rocket scaled up to that diameter might get you into the MPR power weight class, 29mm power, maybe? This is the LPR forum. You might be able to make it light enough for 24mm power, but the higher drag of that dia might make the flight unimpressive. Have you worked out the motor size yet?
I haven't worked out the motor size yet but it'll definitely be 29 mm. my mistake I thought I was in mid power lol
 

Jtgreig

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PS II nose cone and body tube.
072304 - Pro Series II™ 3" Plastic Nose Cone - Estes Rockets
031799 - Pro Series II™ 3" OD Body Tube - Estes Rockets
Might not be an exact match of the PNC-55AO, but close enough.
As Glen mentioned this takes you into the mid power range.
Most PS II rockets have a 29 mm motor mount due to the weight and size.
Thank you I will look into this. I'm right in between low and midpower right now. I really like the upscales apparently this will be my second one now!
 

K'Tesh

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Awesome!! I will definitely do that! I love the blue pretty close to what I was planning on using.
For a color match, I'd try first try Testors Gloss Dark Blue... From what I've seen, often Estes' recommendations for paints best match Testors paints... It was when I was able to match the decals for the Estes Magnum (2032/1422) with Testors Gloss Bright Blue that I made the connection. IIRC, for my sim, I sampled the blue from the face card, and averaged it to get the blue used in the sim. Nice thing about the BBZ is that there are no blue decals that you need to try and match.
 

Jtgreig

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For a color match, I'd try first try Testors Gloss Dark Blue... From what I've seen, often Estes' recommendations for paints best match Testors paints... It was when I was able to match the decals for the Estes Magnum (2032/1422) with Testors Gloss Bright Blue that I made the connection. IIRC, for my sim, I sampled the blue from the face card, and averaged it to get the blue used in the sim. Nice thing about the BBZ is that there are no blue decals that you need to try and match.
I agree I like that the graphics are just all black and anything pops good on the white but that blue is got to be just right for sure I'll definitely look into it I want to go more of a metallic with the blue though but I think they have a blue metallic. I think I will do the name in white like your sim. It just pops out so well.
 

GlenP

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I agree I like that the graphics are just all black and anything pops good on the white but that blue is got to be just right for sure I'll definitely look into it I want to go more of a metallic with the blue though but I think they have a blue metallic. I think I will do the name in white like your sim. It just pops out so well.
Since the white letters are in stencil font, you actually might be able to find a suitable sized set of vinyl letter stickers from a craft store that you could use for masking them. You could lay down a base white coat, then the stickers, then go over with the blue. There are also custom shops that can make the entire logo for you, but the individual letters at that size might not be too hard to place individually, just scribe some light pencil lines on the bottom and top edges, they will get painted over.
 

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Since the white letters are in stencil font, you actually might be able to find a suitable sized set of vinyl letter stickers from a craft store that you could use for masking them. You could lay down a base white coat, then the stickers, then go over with the blue. There are also custom shops that can make the entire logo for you, but the individual letters at that size might not be too hard to place individually, just scribe some light pencil lines on the bottom and top edges, they will get painted over.
Stickershock23 should have vinyl to match the decals.
 

James Duffy

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An Estes Der Big Red Max kit would be a great place to start. You'd simply need to cut new fins, add a couple sections of 3" airframe tube, and some couplers. The slots for the TTW aft fins are already done, and the smaller forward fins could be surface mounted.

The previous commenters are correct, 29mm is the way to go for this project.
 

Bruiser

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An Estes Der Big Red Max kit would be a great place to start.

Lots of waste there because you need a larger chute and fins. Also, the motor mount tube is short in the DBRM kit. Same problem with the Doorknob kit but at least you get a nice 18" nylon parachute with it, Oh, but it has a shorter nose cone than the DBRM

072304 - Pro Series II™ 3" Plastic Nose Cone - Estes Rockets
031799 - Pro Series II™ 3" OD Body Tube - Estes Rockets
009750 - Pro Series II™ 29 mm Motor Retainer Set - Estes Rockets
031360 - Pro Series II™ Engine Mount Tube (29 mm) - Estes Rockets
002273 - Pro Series II™ 30 inch Nylon Parachute - Estes Rockets

JMHO,
-Bob
 

James Duffy

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rharshberger

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The Estes 3" airframe is sold as T300 by Balsa Machining Service. If you are going to upscale using the Estes airframe, then on a long rocket like the BBZ I would line the entire airframe with couplers, and also stiffen the coupler at the airframe joint if it will split in the middle. Personally instead of buying a kit, buy the nose cone by itself and the rest of the parts from Erockets or BMS. The rocket will easily be in MPR territory.
 

Jtgreig

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Ok I ordered all the components today from erockets. I went with 2.63" bt-80h, for the nose cone I went with the bnc-80hx. I ordered the upgraded plywood centering rings and also the the fins. I have been looking at my Der pink Max fins and my bluebird zero fins and they are pretty damn close to the same style or they are the same style. I don't know maybe someone can correct me on that. If I can't use them I'll at least have a reference for fin tabs when I cut my own fins. I definitely doing stickershock graphics on this one. He did Der pink Max and it turned out gorgeous. I'll attach pic. I believe for the blue I'm going with Arctic blue metallic from testors.
 

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Ok I ordered all the components today from erockets. I went with 2.63" bt-80h, for the nose cone I went with the bnc-80hx. I ordered the upgraded plywood centering rings and also the the fins. I have been looking at my Der pink Max fins and my bluebird zero fins and they are pretty damn close to the same style or they are the same style. I don't know maybe someone can correct me on that. If I can't use them I'll at least have a reference for fin tabs when I cut my own fins. I definitely doing stickershock graphics on this one. He did Der pink Max and it turned out gorgeous. I'll attach pic. I believe for the blue I'm going with Arctic blue metallic from testors.
For some reason, I bought the BT-80 tubes and PSII NC but hadn't decided what I was gonna do with it. I think I know now. Technically, the tube should be 57 inches long by my calculation so would require another BT-80 tube and coupler to come close.


 
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T-Rex

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When Carl passed and Semroc was selling off existing stock, I purchased a couple BTH-70AO nose cones. One of them is on a BBZ that is in the last stages of building / first stages of paint. 29mm MMT & breaks in the middle. Still haven't found a blue that I like.
 

ZoomieG

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Looks like I'm a literal day late here, but still figured I'd add to the discussion with the following:

For a 3" BBZ, the closest matching nose cone is likely the Estes PSII DBRM nose (072304), mentioned by @kuririn and several others. The PNC-60AH nose cone is similar in shape to the PNC-55AO, but for a given diameter, is slightly longer. At 3", an upscale 55AO should be ~11.3". The 3" AH is ~12.25, so roughly an inch too long.

@heada, Randy teased the upscale BBZ at NARAM-61 in 2019. I first heard about it when listening to Rocketry Show podcast archive releases. eRockets released a Pro Cherokee 2x upscale earlier this year. I emailed Randy about the BBZ upscale in September; this is his response:

"The Blue Bird Zero has been delayed, we originally wanted to issue this with a Balsa Nose Cone, but the shortage of quality balsa has removed it from the list of possibilities. We are in the process of bring in a large number of 3D printed parts, we will now 3D print the nose cone when we do release it."

I assume the Pro Cherokee was released in its stead, as it uses a not-to-scale aerotech nose cone. I also took this to mean that the BBZ is still in the release queue, just delayed until they can print nose cones in quantity.

From my understanding, in addition to a printed nose cone, the "Pro Blue Bird Zero" will use heavy wall BT-80 like the Pro Cherokee.

@rklapp , perhaps I am misundeerstanding, but if you plan to use the PS II BDRM 3" cone with 2.6" BT-80 tubing, that will prove difficult.

@Jtgreig , The BNC-80HX nose cone is 8.1" long, according to the website. While I have seen the measurements on eRockets to be incorrect for some upscale/downscale noses, if that is accurate, you may want to add a couple inches to your airframe calculation. A 2.6" AO would be around 9.8" long.

I've also attached a fin template that compares the original BT-55 Red Max and BBZ fins. This template was made using the openrocket sims for each model made by K'Tesh. Red Max is on the left, BBZ on the right. While they are somewhat similar, the Red Max fins are slightly larger, and the BBZ has a different trailing edge sweep.
 

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TigerHawk

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Jtgreig

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Looks like I'm a literal day late here, but still figured I'd add to the discussion with the following:

For a 3" BBZ, the closest matching nose cone is likely the Estes PSII DBRM nose (072304), mentioned by @kuririn and several others. The PNC-60AH nose cone is similar in shape to the PNC-55AO, but for a given diameter, is slightly longer. At 3", an upscale 55AO should be ~11.3". The 3" AH is ~12.25, so roughly an inch too long.

@heada, Randy teased the upscale BBZ at NARAM-61 in 2019. I first heard about it when listening to Rocketry Show podcast archive releases. eRockets released a Pro Cherokee 2x upscale earlier this year. I emailed Randy about the BBZ upscale in September; this is his response:

"The Blue Bird Zero has been delayed, we originally wanted to issue this with a Balsa Nose Cone, but the shortage of quality balsa has removed it from the list of possibilities. We are in the process of bring in a large number of 3D printed parts, we will now 3D print the nose cone when we do release it."

I assume the Pro Cherokee was released in its stead, as it uses a not-to-scale aerotech nose cone. I also took this to mean that the BBZ is still in the release queue, just delayed until they can print nose cones in quantity.

From my understanding, in addition to a printed nose cone, the "Pro Blue Bird Zero" will use heavy wall BT-80 like the Pro Cherokee.

@rklapp , perhaps I am misundeerstanding, but if you plan to use the PS II BDRM 3" cone with 2.6" BT-80 tubing, that will prove difficult.

@Jtgreig , The BNC-80HX nose cone is 8.1" long, according to the website. While I have seen the measurements on eRockets to be incorrect for some upscale/downscale noses, if that is accurate, you may want to add a couple inches to your airframe calculation. A 2.6" AO would be around 9.8" long.

I've also attached a fin template that compares the original BT-55 Red Max and BBZ fins. This template was made using the openrocket sims for each model made by K'Tesh. Red Max is on the left, BBZ on the right. While they are somewhat similar, the Red Max fins are slightly larger, and the BBZ has a different trailing edge sweep.
Thank you for clearing up my question about the fins @ZoomieG. I was hoping to get away with not cutting my own, but it will be better if I do. Seeing as the nose cone and body are painted the same adding a couple inches to the airframe should still look good with the nose cone that I have ordered. I am so stoked to start this!! The parts can't get here fast enough. Funny that the pro Cherokee was mentioned as I am expecting that to be delivered on the 7th 😂. I seriously have a problem. I downplayed it to the wife and finally pulled out the tape measure to show the wife how big it will actually be 😂😂😂. I'm still alive so I guess that means I can keep going bigger lol.
 

Zeus-cat

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I thought I remember eRockets saying they were going to produce an upscale kit last year or the year before. Haven't seen it tho.
There is an upscale Blue Birde Zero at eRockets. Maybe 6 feet tall. I think Phil and Jay built it, but as far as I know there are no plans to put it into production. They might sell you the parts for one. If I remember I can ask Tuesday night at the weekly build session, but it is our club's Christmas party so I will probably forget. :rolleyes:
 

heada

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There is an upscale Blue Birde Zero at eRockets. Maybe 6 feet tall. I think Phil and Jay built it, but as far as I know there are no plans to put it into production. They might sell you the parts for one. If I remember I can ask Tuesday night at the weekly build session, but it is our club's Christmas party so I will probably forget. :rolleyes:
I'm thinking there were plans to kit it at some point. I think it was listed in the 2020 vendors forum at NARAM. Maybe my memory isn't what it used to be
 

icyclops

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Ok I ordered all the components today from erockets. I went with 2.63" bt-80h, for the nose cone I went with the bnc-80hx. I ordered the upgraded plywood centering rings and also the the fins. I have been looking at my Der pink Max fins and my bluebird zero fins and they are pretty damn close to the same style or they are the same style. I don't know maybe someone can correct me on that. If I can't use them I'll at least have a reference for fin tabs when I cut my own fins. I definitely doing stickershock graphics on this one. He did Der pink Max and it turned out gorgeous. I'll attach pic. I believe for the blue I'm going with Arctic blue metallic from testors.
Good choice for the blue
 

Zeus-cat

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I'm thinking there were plans to kit it at some point. I think it was listed in the 2020 vendors forum at NARAM. Maybe my memory isn't what it used to be
I think you are correct that there were plans to produce it, but it didn't happen for some reason. As I said, if I remember I will ask on Tuesday. Expect an answer by mid-March, if I remember...
 
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