Looking for Tripoli Level 3 certified Flyer of Record for Spaceport America Cup '23 Competition

[Timothy Murphy]

Hi all, my name is Timothy Murphy and I'm on The University of Alabama's Spaceport America Cup Competition team. For our competition, we need a Flyer of Record who has a Tripoli Level 3 certification. Our current Flyer of Record recently let us know that he is unable to come to our competition due to unforeseen circumstances, and we're currently looking for another Flyer of Record who would be able to come to the competition and oversee our flight. The Spaceport America Cup 2023 Competition is in The White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, and takes place from Monday, June 19th, to Saturday, June 24th.

We would be more than willing to hold a design review to brief a Flyer of Record for our competition. We would also be willing to cover the travel expenses of our Flyer of Record to the competition.

If you have a Tripoli Level 3 HPR Certification and are interested in being the Flyer of Record for our team during the competition, please either reply to this message or send me PM. Thank you for your time reading this message.

Timothy Murphy

 

[user 30299]

Hi all, my name is Timothy Murphy and I'm on The University of Alabama's Spaceport America Cup Competition team. For our competition, we need a Flyer of Record who has a Tripoli Level 3 certification. Our current Flyer of Record recently let us know that he is unable to come to our competition due to unforeseen circumstances, and we're currently looking for another Flyer of Record who would be able to come to the competition and oversee our flight. The Spaceport America Cup 2023 Competition is in The White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, and takes place from Monday, June 19th, to Saturday, June 24th.

We would be more than willing to hold a design review to brief a Flyer of Record for our competition. We would also be willing to cover the travel expenses of our Flyer of Record to the competition.

If you have a Tripoli Level 3 HPR Certification and are interested in being the Flyer of Record for our team during the competition, please either reply to this message or send me PM. Thank you for your time reading this message.

Timothy Murphy

Timothy,

Let the Spaceport Cup staff know right now what your situation is with your Flyer of Record (FOR).

This will give them time to assign someone, that will already be on site, to be the (FOR) during the competition week.

This is just in case you do not find a replacement in the mean time.

The Spaceport Cup staff needs to have a heads-up in advance.

Good luck at the competition.

 

[Antares JS]

Does the flyer of record have to be there the whole time, or just on the day of your flight?

 

[user 30299]

Does the flyer of record have to be there the whole time, or just on the day of your flight?

This is straight from the Space Cup rules for the Flyer of Record:

3. HIGH POWER CERTIFIED FLYER OF RECORD
Spaceport America, the Experimental Sounding Rocket Association (ESRA), and the Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) have
signed an agreement to work together to continue to improve overall flight safety and efficient flight operations at the
Spaceport America Cup (SA Cup). This new partnership will improve participant’s access to TRA mentors, certifications, and
launch sites. Student teams flying in all solid and hybrid categories are required to fly under TRA flight code.

3.1. TRIPOLI FLIGHT REQUIREMENTS FOR SOLID AND HYBRID CATEGORIES

3.1.1. A TRA-certified Level 3 Flyer of Record shall be required for all solids and hybrids and must be present for launch
preparation, pad loading and recovery activities. There are three options to satisfy the requirement for a Level 3
certified Flyer of Record.

3.1.2. Recommended – each team will secure a TRA Level 3 certified Senior mentor who works closely with the team and
is present as the Flyer of Record for the launch preparation, pad loading and recovery activities. Student teams ARE
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED to subsidize the travel expenses of their Flyer of Record or mentor, both to and from the event.

3.1.3. Also recommended – team will have a TRA Level 3 certified student member onsite for the launch preparation, pad
loading and recovery activities. The student L3 member will be the Flyer of Record and must be onsite with the team
for all aspects of launch.

3.1.4. Last option (only for international teams who do not have access to TRA prefectures). International teams will work with
ESRA to coordinate an L3 certified TRA Senior member, who will virtually mentor the international team throughout the
year and will be present as the Flyer of Record for the final flight safety inspections, launch preparation, pad operations,
and recovery.

3.1.5. TRA membership is required to be on the range or to work on safety-related systems on the rocket.

3.1.6. Motors or energetic materials may only be possessed or handled by TRA members with appropriate high power
rocketry certification.

3.1.7. Student teams flying in the Solid or Hybrid categories are required to meet all TRA launch safety requirements to
ensure TRA insurance covers their flight.

 

[Antares JS]

This is straight from the Space Cup rules for the Flyer of Record:

3. HIGH POWER CERTIFIED FLYER OF RECORD
Spaceport America, the Experimental Sounding Rocket Association (ESRA), and the Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) have
signed an agreement to work together to continue to improve overall flight safety and efficient flight operations at the
Spaceport America Cup (SA Cup). This new partnership will improve participant’s access to TRA mentors, certifications, and
launch sites. Student teams flying in all solid and hybrid categories are required to fly under TRA flight code.

3.1. TRIPOLI FLIGHT REQUIREMENTS FOR SOLID AND HYBRID CATEGORIES

3.1.1. A TRA-certified Level 3 Flyer of Record shall be required for all solids and hybrids and must be present for launch
preparation, pad loading and recovery activities. There are three options to satisfy the requirement for a Level 3
certified Flyer of Record.

3.1.2. Recommended – each team will secure a TRA Level 3 certified Senior mentor who works closely with the team and
is present as the Flyer of Record for the launch preparation, pad loading and recovery activities. Student teams ARE
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED to subsidize the travel expenses of their Flyer of Record or mentor, both to and from the event.

3.1.3. Also recommended – team will have a TRA Level 3 certified student member onsite for the launch preparation, pad
loading and recovery activities. The student L3 member will be the Flyer of Record and must be onsite with the team
for all aspects of launch.

3.1.4. Last option (only for international teams who do not have access to TRA prefectures). International teams will work with
ESRA to coordinate an L3 certified TRA Senior member, who will virtually mentor the international team throughout the
year and will be present as the Flyer of Record for the final flight safety inspections, launch preparation, pad operations,
and recovery.

3.1.5. TRA membership is required to be on the range or to work on safety-related systems on the rocket.

3.1.6. Motors or energetic materials may only be possessed or handled by TRA members with appropriate high power
rocketry certification.

3.1.7. Student teams flying in the Solid or Hybrid categories are required to meet all TRA launch safety requirements to
ensure TRA insurance covers their flight.

Thanks, looks like you just need to be there for the actual flight.

I sent them a PM. We'll see if they respond.

 

[JimJarvis50]

Thanks, looks like you just need to be there for the actual flight.

I sent them a PM. We'll see if they respond.

Although the requirement is only for the day of the flight, I would recommend that the FoR be there for the safety review (done at the convension center). These reviews sometimes generate significant actions the team may need to take before being allowed to fly. The FoR can help the team to undertand what is being asked, and from their experience, identify ways to solve these safety issues in an acceptable way. Since the FoR has their name on the card, I would think they would want first-hand information on whatever is being identified as unsafe.

Jim

 

[FredA]

How do you get past section 3.1.6 without having a team member/mentor be the L3 to buy and transport the motor?
Are you buying motors at the launch site????

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

How do you get past section 3.1.6 without having a team member/mentor be the L3 to buy and transport the motor?
Are you buying motors at the launch site????

A university can purchase reloads without being part of tripoli.

 

[ksaves2]

A university can purchase reloads without being part of tripoli.

I believe that's true. I find it hard to believe there isn't a level 3 nearby that could step up to the task. I would but am stuck at L2 due to work constraints and I need to clean up my basement and garage shops. Waiting for Spring to do that when it's warmer as I'm retired now. Am stuck with the "go large and low" or "go small and high" dilemmas. Am pretty good at tracking but prefer to not to have to use those skills extensively on a cert flight. Kurt

 

[tfish]

Steve Shannon on Facebook June 2019....
________________________________________________________

Regarding the "University Exemption" to NFPA 1127:​

I have heard about how students have some kind of exemption that frees them from some of the NFPA 1127 rules. I have heard of students who try to launch at Tripoli launches claiming they don't need to be certified because they are students. That's not true and I want to get the word out to our members, our Prefects, and our TAPs.
The exact NFPA 1127 wording is this:
1.3.3 This code shall not apply to the design, construction, production, manufacture, fabrication, maintenance, launch, flight, test, operation, use, or other activity connected with a rocket or rocket motor where carried out or engaged in by the following entities:
(1) National, state, or local government
(2) An individual, a firm, a partnership, a joint venture, a
corporation, or other business entity engaged as a
licensed business in the research, development, production, testing, maintenance, or supply of rockets, rocket motors, rocket propellant chemicals, or rocket components or parts
(3) College or university
First, please note that the exemption refers to College or university entities. In other words, the exemption does not cover students individually.
Second, that exemption only covers NFPA 1127 as required by local statutes. It does not release students from the requirements of our safety codes. In other words, students must follow all of our rules. They must be Tripoli members and they must be certified in order to handle motors and fly rockets at any Tripoli Sanctioned Event.
Steve

________________________________________________________________________________

 

[jsdemar]

In addition to what Tony posted that Steve wrote, the university teams have to follow the Spaceport Cup rules and Tripoli Safety Code in order to compete. Before Tripoli was involved, there were fewer restrictions on purchasing and handling of energetics.

It's best to have a team member get his/her L3. Or, work with an L3 mentor throughout the design/build/fly. The last minute "flyer of record" is intended for international teams who have no Tripoli L3 team member and no local L3 mentor.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Correct to everyone above . I was not saying university's can fly said motors , just saying they can be purchased.

 

[ksaves2]

For a formal competition such as announced above, an L3 member requirement is part of the rule. There is no law a university group mixing or buying their own propellant, running off and launching a rocket on their own in the right environment "by themselves", having the appropriate altitude waivers and such without anyone associated with organized rocketry. If they "do it" on their own, they accept the risk of a mishap then. Launch ranges are out in the boondocks usually and the risk of a mishap is minimized as long as appropriate launch intervals are practiced. Meaning people are kept away from the launchpad at an adequate distance for the flights. Except for unstable rockets that go haywire and head for the flight line folks!

If a competition specifies commercial loads, then that's what one has to use PERIOD! Especially when they want to compete with others in the same environment. Though there might be a bit of a variation of thrust output from a commercial load. Study chemistry and you'll find that out and hope you buy a "hot load".

If they specify an L3 of whatever group NAR or TRA needs to be a sponsor, I think they are trying to piggy back off the sponsors liability insurance.
If out in a boon docks launching site, I'd be o.k. with that but if a project comes down and hits somebody's car/vehicle, guess who's going to be held responsible? The sponsoring L3 unless indemnified otherwise.

I agree to have a prof or a student who acquired the skills to be an L3 before or during their college years to oversee an ambitious project from the beginning.
It might be hard to get someone to step in at the last minute and take the responsibility who wasn't there from the beginning. Not impossible, but if I was an L3 coming in at the last minute, I'd want to see a lot of details and construction photos along with what was used in the construction of the project adhesives etc.
Kurt

 

[user 30299]

It's not that difficult to step into the Flyer-of-Record (FOR) position for a team that's closing in on the Spaceport's competition date.

Spaceport Cup has Project Reviewers whose job is to provide general oversight on a team's design and build. Each reviewer may
have two or three teams to keep tabs on - and sometimes more. It depends on time and skill set.

They look for the obvious issues with designs & builds, but can get down into the details if necessary. They then send emails,
make phone calls, or have Zoom meetings with the team mentor and team members and bring the issues to everyone's attention.
The reviewers give updates to the Spaceport staff on how well or how poorly a team is doing.

The project reviewer is a great asset for someone coming in last minute as the FOR. They can get you up to speed quickly
on the status of a team, and fill you in on a team's strong and weak points.