# Loki motors?

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#### 3stoogesrocketry

##### Well-Known Member
And there you have it.....it's probably the potential of user error that has nixed it.
That and it is hard to get a radial seal in a area that may have pitting or shart in the case from previous liner charing or burn thru .

#### crossfire

##### Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
gotta admit I like the Loki 54 and 76mm stuff but unfortunately Scott has Priced himself out of my wallet. I ocassionally get loads at a great price. I have a 6000 Red, cocktail and Spitfire still in my box
Loki dose have a number of non haz mat fee reloads.

#### Neutron95

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I live in California, so I'm not going to be able to fly Loki regularly, but I do have a few projects lurking in the back of my head that will require Loki motors. The I405 is the perfect booster motor for a 3 stage rocket I have in the works, and I (like many others) want to do a really optimized 54/4000 flying case design. The motors that go in that casing are truly astounding. Someday, someone is going to annhiliate the L record with the L2050, and the M1378 can theoretically break the M record as well. I don't know of any other motor casing where you could break two Tripoli records with it.

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
I have been running a number of the Loki motors through Rocksim and have found a bunch of use-cases for the rockets I fly and am planning to build. It would be cool if they had some 29mm offerings. I have a number of 29mm rockets that would work well with the Loki motor benefits. For example, I am building a Sirius Interrogator G right now - it falls right in that dead zone of weight at the 29mm level for Aerotech. AT's G25 would be a wonderful motor for it - a super long 5 second burn putting the rocket at about 1200-1300 feet - would be a great flight with a spectacular long burn, but the speed at the end of 8 foot rail is projected to be 28 MPH. Marginal at best. It's hard enough to find an 8 foot rail at most clubs for 1010 buttons, much less a longer rail. Seems like Loki tech would be a perfect for a 29mm motor at this rocket size. Seems like there would be a market - the mid-power/small caliber HPR market seems like it would be pretty big.

#### Onebadhawk

##### Sponsor
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Okay, you guys have convinced me Going to invest some money in Loki hardware and try them out!

As I look through their hardware, it is a bit more confusing than AT. Looks like you need different nozzles for different loads?
mtnmanak,
Let me know if there's anything Loki you'd like..
I am a full line Loki distributor and stock the catalog cover to cover..
I pride myself on never being out of stock on anything,
it has happened, but rarely, and when it does I consider that a mistake on my part..

Not so much, other than the odd load here and there. In 38s you ONLY need the additional #16 if you fly the I110 in the 480 case or the #26 if you fly the J474 in the 740 case.

Other than that, all the commercial loads use the nozzle that the case comes with 'standard'. Just add an igniter, some grease for the o-rings, snap ring pliers, and go launch!

Other than that:
38-120 does G motors
38-240 does H
38-480 does I
38-740 does small and mid J
38-1200 does mid J and up

54-1200 does small and mid J
54-2000 does a variety of K
54-2800 does the rest of the K and some L
54-4000 does big L and M
Thank you so much for posting that Tom.
When you lay it out it really isn't very complex or confusing at all..

I'd like to add two points.

1-- The K 627 Red in the 38 / 1200 case..

2-- When a load for a particular case doesn't use that cases "standard" nozzle,
2 out of the 3 examples of this use the nozzle from the next case, if you had both cases, you'd have the correct nozzle anyway..
The one that doesn't is the K 627 Red in the 38 / 1200 case and it uses a #25 nozzle..

Teddy

#### SparkyVTFlyer

##### Senior Member
TRF Supporter
As others have said, Loki is great stuff for dual use Commercial and EX. I started flying commercial and a few EX here and there. Now I almost exclusively fly EX, with a few Commercial here and there. I used the same hardware setup through the entire transition. Scott sells the EX supplies for his hardware too, as well as some other vendors such as Always Ready Rocketry. I use ARR liners & casting tubes, with Scott's 38mm smoke grains.

A quick query shows that I've flown 20 Commercial loads and 98 EX loads in the same hardware set.

#### heada

##### Well-Known Member
Years and years ago Loki had a 29mm line of hardware but no reloads. I asked Scott about 29mm and he said there are no plans for 29mm in the future. Reloads would not be cost justified for him and the number of people that want 29mm for EX doesn't justify the costs of getting hardware made.

I have Loki's complete 38mm line, all the 54mm except for 54/4000 and 76/3500 and 76/6000. I also picked up 1 29mm case used.

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
mtnmanak,
Let me know if there's anything Loki you'd like..
I am a full line Loki distributor and stock the catalog cover to cover..
I pride myself on never being out of stock on anything,
it has happened, but rarely, and when it does I consider that a mistake on my part..

Thank you so much for posting that Tom.
When you lay it out it really isn't very complex or confusing at all..

I'd like to add two points.

1-- The K 627 Red in the 38 / 1200 case..

2-- When a load for a particular case doesn't use that cases "standard" nozzle,
2 out of the 3 examples of this use the nozzle from the next case, if you had both cases, you'd have the correct nozzle anyway..
The one that doesn't is the K 627 Red in the 38 / 1200 case and it uses a #25 nozzle..

Teddy
Hi Teddy, will definitely take you up on that. Looks like you are right down the road from me - I am in Jersey City. Especially for any hazmat loads, would love to figure out a way to get local so I can avoid the shipping costs, thanks!

#### DAllen

##### Well-Known Member
AT I600 = $70 .. 640 NS or$0.11 / NS

LOKI J712 = $74 .. 700 NS or$0.11 / NS

(Prices per Chris' Rocket Supplies)

Not exactly a true 1:1 comparison but I think if you do this sort of thing you'll find that Loki is fairly comparable. And as others have said, the only drawback to Loki reloads is they do not come with starters.

#### Walter Longburn

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
AT I600 = $70 .. 640 NS or$0.11 / NS

LOKI J712 = $74 .. 700 NS or$0.11 / NS

(Prices per Chris' Rocket Supplies)

Not exactly a true 1:1 comparison but I think if you do this sort of thing you'll find that Loki is fairly comparable. And as others have said, the only drawback to Loki reloads is they do not come with starters.
I like to by my AT motors on sale. Is there any place that ever sells Loki motors for 25% off?

#### wsume99

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I like to by my AT motors on sale. Is there any place that ever sells Loki motors for 25% off?
I'd like to know this as well. The comparison posted uses retail price for both manufacturers. I have never paid retail price for an Aerotech reload. I'm very interested in what Loki has to offer but I'd like to know the real costs. Hazmat free on most 38mm motors is intriguing but I don't pay hazmat on Aerotech reloads if I use my local vendor and I'm paying below retail.

#### heada

##### Well-Known Member
In several years I've never seen a sale specific to Loki. A vendor may have a sale that covers all their inventory but I don't think you'll see a sale just on Loki. Also, all vendors I've seen that carry Loki have the same prices so it might be part of a vendor agreement or something like that.

#### 3stoogesrocketry

##### Well-Known Member
In several years I've never seen a sale specific to Loki. A vendor may have a sale that covers all their inventory but I don't think you'll see a sale just on Loki. Also, all vendors I've seen that carry Loki have the same prices so it might be part of a vendor agreement or something like that.

Nailed it . It prevents vendors from going "wild" on Black Friday and other sale days . No small vendors need to loose money ob products just to try and compete with the big vendors that have the money to burn .

#### Banzai88

##### Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed
TRF Supporter
It's called a "Minimum Advertised Price Policy" and there are good reasons for it. Look it up if you don't understand the 'why' of it.

Many products and manufacturers use it throughout retail. No matter what vendor you buy it through, always the same price.....with "sales" also controlled by the manufacturer.
Example: no matter what store you buy a Stihl chain saw from, they're all the same price except in the spring and fall when certain high volume vendors get to offer them at a sale price.

Vendors usually own the stock that they have on hand, and some may choose to offer a discount, for one reason or another, but doing so without authorization often risks violating the supplier/vendor agreement from a legal standpoint.

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
For cost comparison, I had already done that and acknowledged it in my original post. On an NS-to-NS basis, Loki and AT are pretty close in price in G & H motors, Loki gets a little more expensive for I motors, but then J & above, Loki's price is quite a bit more than AT's "street price". Tom explained minimum advertised pricing above, no need to explain further. Bottom line is, you can probably find Aerotech motor reloads cheaper. Just the sheer volume of AT motors out on the market pushes their price down. This weekend I was at a hobby shop in Pittsburgh and asked to sift through their couple of boxes of rocket parts they had behind the counter. Found 5 G level AT 29mm reloads they sold me for $10 each. Retail on those was about$30 each. You just aren't going to find 5 unsold (forgotten) Loki reloads laying around in a box behind the counter at some local hobby shop.

The point of my original post was to discuss Loki's value. A significantly different metric than cost and, I think, an important discussion. Many people in this thread have argued for Loki's value and explained the benefits, especially for certain motors. From that feedback, along with more targeted simulations on my rockets, I believe they made a good argument for Loki's value in many use-cases. As someone who already owns a lot of 24mm - 75mm AT/CTI hardware, I will certainly not abandon my current investment, but I will invest in Loki hardware and use some of their motors where it makes sense to do so. I look forward to trying out some of Loki's offerings and expanding my options at the field.

This is what makes TRF great - one of the last places in America we can have excellent civil discourse!

#### Onebadhawk

##### Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Hi Teddy, will definitely take you up on that. Looks like you are right down the road from me - I am in Jersey City. Especially for any hazmat loads, would love to figure out a way to get local so I can avoid the shipping costs, thanks!
If you're in Jersey City you are local to me..
I'm in Old Bridge, just north of the Englishtown racetrack..
Shoot me an email at my sales at address, we'll take care of anything you need..

Teddy

#### Bobfly

##### Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Hi Guys,

I started out flying CTI motors. It was understandable that CTI was virtually shutdown after the terrible fire that severely injured one of their principal employee‘s. It was extremely hard to find any specific CTI motor that you may have needed.

Teddy at OneBadhawk, a distributor for Loki, convinced me to try the Loki product line. I have been exclusively flying Loki motors ever since. The Loki cases are extremely robust. All of the Loki motor cases, 38mm, 54mm, and 76mm offer forward closures with a threaded 1/4” eyebolt option. The CTI cases don’t offer this in their 38mm cases.

I don’t like the threaded plastic rear closures on the CTI 38mm cases. They don’t always fit perfectly. The Loki cases do not require a threaded plastic component. The snap rings that the Loki cases use give you a positive closure.

Before the coronavirus pandemic, Teddy from OneBadhawk attended many of the northeast rocket launches. You could purchase Loki motors and hardware from Teddy at the field.

One very nice benefit of using Loki motors is that Scott the manufacturer is always available to answer questions. Loki does offer some very interesting motors like a 54mm M motor. The Loki SpitFire motors make a very impressive sparky display that always impresses the spectators.

I have attached a picture of a small Loki 38mm case with the forward closure eyebolt attached. This setup is great for minimum diameter rockets. I have also attached a picture of a custom MAC Performance carbon fiber Rainmaker kit that flew to 13,600 feet on a 54mm Loki L1400. The last picture is of a minimum diameter Wildman Blackhawk 38 flying on a Loki SpitFire motor. Oops - one more picture of a Wildman 3” two stage rocket getting a serious kickoff from a Loki J820.

All the best,
Bob

#### Bobfly

##### Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
The pictures didn’t post. I’ll try it again.

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#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
The pictures didn’t post. I’ll try it again.

Great photos! I need to get better at taking photos. You even caught the rail guide flying off on the sparky launch, very cool!

#### Bobfly

##### Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Thanks, It took me a long time and a lot of practice to get the photography right. The rockets are so darn fast off of the pad. Unfortunately the forum can‘t accept full resolution photographs. The actual photos have much better resolution. You can read every decal.

aAll the best,
Bob

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
Thanks, It took me a long time and a lot of practice to get the photography right. The rockets are so darn fast off of the pad. Unfortunately the forum can‘t accept full resolution photographs. The actual photos have much better resolution. You can read every decal.

aAll the best,
Bob
Whatever you're doing, keep it up - outstanding photos.

#### NateB

##### Well-Known Member
What are you guys using to store your cases and nozzles? Are there any off the shell tool boxes with compartments that are just the right size?

#### Banzai88

##### Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed
TRF Supporter
Sterlite makes some good locking lid tubs.
Expanding mesh sleeves for the cases

Some folks like the Harbor Freight parts bin carriers, large and small.

#### Bobfly

##### Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
MAC Performance Rocketry makes printed cases to hold all of their nozzles. I just store the cases in the nylon web netting that they come in.

#### heada

##### Well-Known Member
Cases in mesh, reloads in shipping tubes/bags they came in, all stored in ammo cases. Works except for 38/1200, 54/2800+ and 76/6000 which are kept in 4ft plastic tubs

#### NateB

##### Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone. Those things boxes from Harbor Frieght might fit into my range box.

#### Onebadhawk

##### Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
those were some good days
Ha,
Do you remember going to the track ??
Ohh man,, was that a fun night..
A friend of my son used to race Pro Stock bike..
That was years ago..
When they had the wheelie contest my whole neighborhood
looked like Daytona Beach during bike week..
Those were some fun times for sure..

Teddy

#### Theory

##### Well-Known Member
Ha,
Do you remember going to the track ??
Ohh man,, was that a fun night..
very cool and, oh yes! Been to many an NHRA race there. My now wife had her first taste of nitro at the 2006 Super Nationals

#### Onebadhawk

##### Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
very cool and, oh yes! Been to many an NHRA race there. My now wife had her first taste of nitro at the 2006 Super Nationals
Ohh man,
How nostalgic is that..
Raceway Park expanded and built track after track..
All my life growing up it was a dragstrip next to the Englishtown airport..
Then they started expanding..
I kind of think one of the things that played big role in them closing their doors was
a driver loosing his life at a national event there..
They were open for a few years after that but then eventually closed their doors..
That place was simply a part of life in central New Jersey..

Teddy